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Judge pares down artists' AI copyright lawsuit against Midjourney, Stability AI

190 点作者 starshadowx2超过 1 年前

24 条评论

ballenf超过 1 年前
Can someone explain again how an ML system scanning and training on a copyrighted work is different from a highly skilled artist doing the same?<p>There are artists that can study a painting for a few minutes and then recreate it from memory. There are artists who study a particular body of work so long that they can create more works indistinguishable in style. If an artist recreates a copyrighted work or creates a derivative too close to the original, then that new work is potentially copyright infringement.<p>That is, we focus on the output of the process to determine infringement with living artists and ignore the training. But with ML, everyone focuses on the training.<p>It seems an ML tool could add a filter to the output and refuse to output a work that too closely resembles one or more work under copyright. Isn&#x27;t that basically what legitimate professional artists do as well?<p>Thousands of artists are capable of infringement, but we don&#x27;t take away their brushes based on capability.
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minimaxir超过 1 年前
This lawsuit was always weird because it was a much much weaker case than the GitHub Copilot lawsuit by the same firm: atleast with text you can point out exact infringement, but the Stable Diffusion lawsuit (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;stablediffusionlitigation.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;stablediffusionlitigation.com&#x2F;</a>) seems mostly based on inaccurate technical memes like &quot;diffusion is just compression&quot; without examples.<p>The HN discussion back when this lawsuit was first announced was correctly pessimistic: the top comment was &quot;Where are the copies?&quot;. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=34377910">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=34377910</a>
AndrewKemendo超过 1 年前
Having done way more corporate court than I want (patents, mergers, liquidation), I’m increasingly convinced that the judicial system is fundamentally flawed.<p>The reality is that the law in 2023 US is so obscure and opaque and how judges come to their ruling seems to be by their total whim with no actual philosophy other than maintenance of the system.<p>Further I’m extremely unimpressed with the vast majority of judges competence in display - such that contempt should be the starting position.<p>The fact that this is how laws are actually made (precedent of applications will always beat the letter) means that nobody who doesn’t have a warchest will be able to actually utilize the system coherently<p>As with everything now, courts are rules by those with the most money
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nologic01超过 1 年前
Can somebody explain how this will not kill any incentive to publish anything?<p>Why would any human spend their limited lifespan to create a piece of work that will be grabbed without permission, approximated algorithmically (at least on the surface) and reused in infinite possible small variations without any attribution or remuneration whatsoever?<p>This feels like a reversion to medieval times with minimal trade between regions as thieves would ambush traders and steal any goods.
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williamcotton超过 1 年前
<i>Orrick also dismissed McKernan and Ortiz&#x27;s copyright infringement claims entirely.</i><p>Well, duh. The judge is helping out the plaintiffs in this case. A jury would have been easily convinced by the defense that no images produced by Stability&#x27;s systems are visually derivative.<p>The key is indeed what follows:<p><i>The judge allowed Andersen to continue pursuing her key claim that Stability&#x27;s alleged use of her work to train Stable Diffusion infringed her copyrights.</i><p>So unless there is some kind of summary judgement I would wager that this becomes the focus of both sides as this heads towards trial.<p>But that&#x27;s it. As predicted by commentary from legal scholars, the outputs of Stable Diffusion are distinct from the model and are not infringing on copyright... at least for this complaint!
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TotalCrackpot超过 1 年前
This is consistent with historically intellectual property being a construct that benefits owners of capital and not actual innovators. That&#x27;s why I think it should be abolished, this is yet another mechanism to monopolize a space to profit through some kind of rent-seeking procedure.
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kranke155超过 1 年前
This will be the greatest act of Intellectual Property theft in history.<p>All because judges will be befuddled about what to do after hearing terms like “training data” and “compression”. We will, of course get the emails in 10-20 years showing that it’s all lies and that the CEOs of these companies knew exactly what they were doing.<p>If this continues, AI will be the great inequality machine in history. Take data from 1,000,000 individuals, train your AI to replace them, compensate no one.<p>You can do this in every area: driving, farming, cooking. Music. Just dispossess everyone of all their property by training an AI to copy all their work! What could be easier (and less morally right)…
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gamblor956超过 1 年前
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;fingfx.thomsonreuters.com&#x2F;gfx&#x2F;legaldocs&#x2F;byprrngynpe&#x2F;AI%20COPYRIGHT%20LAWSUIT%20mtdruling.pdf" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;fingfx.thomsonreuters.com&#x2F;gfx&#x2F;legaldocs&#x2F;byprrngynpe&#x2F;...</a><p>The dismissal of Deviant was inappropriate given that the case hasn&#x27;t reached discovery yet. The dismissal was granted based on a <i>substantive</i> evaluation of the Defendant&#x27;s assertions which is inappropriate at this early <i>procedural</i> stage of the case. (see e.g. page 10 where the judge evaluates the &quot;plausibility&quot; of alleged facts, and page 12 where he says &quot;I am not convinced&quot; about the plaintiff&#x27;s theory, even though in a MTD this is not a determination he is supposed to make pre-discovery).<p>Moreover, even if plaintiff&#x27;s language was &quot;unclear&quot;, the appropriate procedure is to require them to amend their claim and dismiss Deviant if the plaintiff does not amend, not to dismiss a defendant and give the plaintiff leave to amend their claims.<p>With respect to Midjourney, the Plaintiffs failed to plead sufficient factual allegations to support their claim, so that dismissal was appropriate. (Pre-discovery, it&#x27;s okay for the alleged&#x2F;pleaded &quot;facts&quot; to be wrong, you just need to allege sufficient &quot;facts&quot; that you have a legal basis for a court case. Note that &quot;facts&quot; in the MTD context doesn&#x27;t mean real world facts, it is a legal term of art that actually refers to an allegation of a fact that will later be determined to be true or false at the actual legal proceeding on the merits.)
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ndiddy超过 1 年前
&gt; Two of the three artists who filed the lawsuit have dropped their infringement claims because they didn’t register their work with the copyright office before suing. The copyright claims will be limited to artist Sarah Anderson’s works, which she has registered.<p>I’m impressed that their legal team was incompetent enough that they didn’t bring this up as an issue before filing the lawsuit.
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OsrsNeedsf2P超过 1 年前
&gt; Two of the three artists who filed the lawsuit have dropped their infringement claims because they didn’t register their work with the copyright office before suing. The copyright claims will be limited to artist Sarah Anderson’s works, which she has registered.<p>The lawsuit is moving forward, but only on copyrighted work. This is (not yet) a story.
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sofixa超过 1 年前
I&#x27;m really looking forward to the EU framework around &quot;AI&quot;. It&#x27;s definitely a better approach than having individual artists sue and get dismissed on technicalities (that don&#x27;t even apply in most of the EU - e.g. in France, if you release something by default you get copyright on it, so the judge&#x27;s reasoning couldn&#x27;t apply here) and judges deciding based on their interpretation of vague laws crafted in an age when &quot;AI&quot; was little more than niche science fiction if that.
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brucethemoose2超过 1 年前
Why is Midjourney completely off the hook while Stability AI is not?<p>I&#x27;m trying to pull up the original court document, but the PDF isnt loading.
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raincole超过 1 年前
My perspective is there are two different main issues about AI (especially Stable Diffusion).<p>One is how it works consistently with the current law. Ml model is basically a highly lossy compressed data format. If you collect millions of copyrighted images, merge them into a super big image, then compress it into a .jpg. Are you allowed to redistribute this .jpg file?<p>To me, it&#x27;s mostly depending on how lossy (low quality) your .jpg is.<p>(Note the fact that human brains are also lossy compressed data is completely irrelevant here: you can only compare machine to machine, algorithm to algorithm. You can&#x27;t say if a human has right to do X, <i>therefore</i> a machine has the same right to do X.)<p>But this line of thinking, while consistent to me, is dangerous. Because it means open models like Stability Diffusion are more likely to be illegal than a closed one like MidJourney, since it&#x27;s closer to the source materials. If closed models end up being legal but open models don&#x27;t, it would be a big loss for our society as a whole.
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laylower超过 1 年前
This is the first paragraph...<p>&quot;The contentious issue of whether AI art generators violent copyright — since they are by and large trained on human artists’ work, in many cases without their direct affirmative consent, compensation, or even knowledge — has taken a step forward to being settled in the U.S. today.&quot;<p>Is it human-generated? Violent copyright?
Topfi超过 1 年前
Here is a direct link to the motion for those interested: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;scribd.com&#x2F;document&#x2F;681174239&#x2F;Order-on-motion-to-dismiss" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;scribd.com&#x2F;document&#x2F;681174239&#x2F;Order-on-motion-to-dis...</a>
aa_is_op超过 1 年前
Amazing how copyright law amazingly disappears when it&#x27;s to the detriment of major tech companies and protecting smaller creators.<p>Just amazing!
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sinuhe69超过 1 年前
Orrick dismissed McKernan and Ortiz&#x27;s copyright claims because they had not registered their images with the U.S. Copyright Office, a requirement for bringing a copyright lawsuit.<p>That is the key.
artninja1988超过 1 年前
Good. Most claims got dismissed (although with leave to amend) with only the infringement on the input side really remaining. This lawyer is a clown
0dayz超过 1 年前
Hasn&#x27;t this always been a precarious road? With say fair use for instance.<p>Not only that but I really wish we could just redo copyright to be more flexible but ultimately empowering the creator with conclusive licenses for others to use (like in AI, other creative work, streaming, etc.) and the creator is paid either monthly or per generated image&#x2F;song.
cmiles74超过 1 年前
It seems like they focused too much on the details of how the model works and how data is encoded by the model.<p>&quot;In his dismissal of infringement claims, Orrick wrote that plaintiffs’ theory is “unclear” as to whether there are copies of training images stored in Stable Diffusion that are utilized by DeviantArt and Midjourney. He pointed to the defense’s arguments that it’s impossible for billions of images “to be compressed into an active program,” like Stable Diffusion.&quot;<p>Perhaps future litigation will be more successful if they treat the model as a black box. Could an argument be made that a person&#x27;s intellectual property was used to train the model without compensation and _that_ is the illegal act? From there one would only have to demonstrate that the output form the model is similar to a person&#x27;s body of work.
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ptx超过 1 年前
&gt; <i>Orrick spends the rest of his ruling explaining why he found the artists’ complaint defective, which includes various issues, but the big one being that two of the artists — McKernan and Ortiz, did not actually file copyrights on their art with the U.S. Copyright Office. [...] The other problem for plaintiffs is that it is simply not plausible that every Training Image used to train Stable Diffusion was copyrighted (as opposed to copyrightable)</i><p>What? I thought everything was copyrighted by default under the Berne Convention?<p>That&#x27;s the reason for the existence of CC0 [0], after all. Their FAQ says: &quot;Copyright and other laws throughout the world automatically extend copyright protection to works of authorship and databases, whether the author or creator wants those rights or not.&quot;<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;wiki.creativecommons.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;CC0_FAQ#What_is_CC0.3F" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;wiki.creativecommons.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;CC0_FAQ#What_is_CC0.3F</a>
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alphanullmeric超过 1 年前
Intellectual property shouldn’t be a thing. If you still have it after I’ve supposedly stolen it from you, then it’s not real property. The easiest test of consistency is simply to ask about both piracy and AI training data. If you support IP in one case but not the other then you’re a hypocrite. There is no third option where your support of something depends not on what it is but who it benefits.
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hankchinaski超过 1 年前
This is like Michelangelo suing Caravaggio because he copied or better, was inspired by his work
soulofmischief超过 1 年前
A thought experiment:<p>Imagine you have a blob of seemingly random data. Nothing in the data contains anything recognizable as illegal or in violation of copyright.<p>Now imagine that the right input suddenly turns the data into illegal or infringing material, after a transformation operation. And not just a single unique input such as a password which clearly represents a mapping function between two sets of data.<p>But imagine if there were seemingly infinite possible inputs, each of which transformed the data into a different infringing blob of data. If these inputs exactly represented the novel, copyrightable or illegal aspects, but the blob itself was inert.<p>What should be illegal here? The blob, which by itself is free of any questionable bits of data, or the inputs which transform it into something tangible? Both? Neither?<p>Well, it has never been illegal to draw or paint something representing CSAM, for example. And it has never been illegal to draw or paint Mickey Mouse in your own home.<p>What&#x27;s often illegal is <i>publishing</i> said data. Ignoring the free speech debate around artificially produced CSAM, publishing it is already illegal in many territories. It is also illegal to violate copyright in many countries when publishing information.<p>What&#x27;s interesting is that it is not illegal to trace a drawing and hanging it up on your wall, instead of buying the the real drawing from its rights-holder. It&#x27;s also not illegal to reproduce a tracing done by a friend. But the recording and film industries have been more successful in convincing us that it <i>should</i> be illegal to do the same for a song or film. That you should not be able to &quot;trace&quot; the data at home, and that you should not be able to share it with me, that I should not be able to trace over <i>your</i> tracing and bring home a copy for myself.<p>I can understand, and support a copyright system which regulates the publishing of copyrighted material. Even copyleft paradigms lean on regulation for enforcement. But the film and music industry actively try to restrict individual freedoms in the name of corporate profits, while still screwing over their clients and employees with respect to profit-sharing.<p>Back to the point: That blob should never be illegal. The activation functions should never be illegal. That is a basic extension of free speech. But publishing, that is a different story, and we <i>already have laws offering such protections</i> both with respect to illegally-produced or copyrighted content. Any attempt to regulate what kind of model I am allowed to run at home is a massive infringement on my rights as an individual, and is borne either out of gross ignorance of current copyright law from the same people crying, &quot;But think of the copyrights!&quot;, or direct, insidious corporate greed.<p>You can adjust this thought experiment so that instead of dealing with a magic blob, we are dealing with a program that makes it <i>really</i> easy to produce illegal or copyrighted works after a bit of human interaction. Is there claim here now? Are we basing the law on how much human involvement was needed to create the output? We&#x27;ve faced similar arguments around technological leaps such as the printing press or mechanical loom. Did we, as a society, reject these advances in technology in order to protect loom workers and scribes?<p>Bottom line. You can pry my models out of my cold, dead or handcuffed hands. Times like these really shine a light on who is complicit in the system, and who suffers from it.<p>If you are in the creative industry, you need to understand how things are going to change. As an engineer with decades of investment into my craft, I also have to face the rude awakening that is ahead in my own industry as automation creates a gap between highly-skilled professionals and newcomers. Being a paid software engineer might become as hard of work as becoming a famous professional artist. Lots of connections, insane specialization and a lifetime devoted to the craft. A lot of people in school for engineering <i>right now</i> might struggle to find employment in 20 years or less if they cannot cross this gap in time. Artists aren&#x27;t the only tribe experiencing a huge industry shake-up over a technology that will one day be so ubiquitous that it&#x27;s inside of your toaster.
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