Gut epithelial barrier damage caused by dishwasher detergents and rinse aids

From my understanding, this article is only about professional dishwashers used in restaurants and hotels etc. that use much higher concentrations and less rinsing than consumer dishwashers. They specifically mention that they could not repeat their findings on consumer dishwashers.

Most residential dishwashers seem to have a rinse-aid dispenser that you fill up with usually finish jet-dry.<p>It seems to have the alcohol ethoxylates mentioned in this paper:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ewg.org&#x2F;guides&#x2F;cleaners&#x2F;2994-FinishJetDryRinseAgentBasketLemon&#x2F;" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ewg.org&#x2F;guides&#x2F;cleaners&#x2F;2994-FinishJetDryRinseAg...</a><p>I expect it is also in the finish dishwasher detergent pods.<p>digging deeper the wikipedia article on ethoxylation says:<p><i>Ethoxylated fatty alcohols are often converted to the corresponding organosulfates, which can be easily deprotonated to give anionic surfactants such as sodium laureth sulfate.</i><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Ethoxylation" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Ethoxylation</a><p>I had trouble with SLS (sodium lauryl sulfate) and switched to toothpaste, shampoo and laundry detergents without this.<p>This chemical has gotten a bad rap and a lot of formulas were changed to use sodium laureth sulfate mentioned above. (I avoided that too)<p>I&#x27;ll bet they are all trouble.

Get yourself a big old tub of anhydrous citric acid from Amazon or wherever, make up a 10% solution and use that in place of rinse aid. Just check with your dishwasher manufacturer that it’s not going to cause issues first.<p>I got a new Miele unit a few months ago and the manual specifically advises the use of such a solution, with caution not to make it any stronger.<p>It’s been working like a charm.

(2022)<p>1 year ago, 411 comments : <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=33822149">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=33822149</a><p>Got triggered by <i>epithelial</i>.

Ok, this is posed to generate some sensationalist headlines. Do we get these concentrations with regular use in a dishwasher? Does it have cumulative exposure effects? Does it even reach the gut lining after digestion enzymes and acids?<p>From the summary it seems that they only investigated the dose dependent toxicity.

Can someone who understands more about chemistry tell me where exactly which detergents use alcohol ethoxylates and how do I spot them from the label? Should I be concerned about this at home?

There is a detailed article in German with more information:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.spektrum.de&#x2F;news&#x2F;klarspueler-gefahr-fuer-die-darmgesundheit-oder-falscher-alarm&#x2F;2115231" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.spektrum.de&#x2F;news&#x2F;klarspueler-gefahr-fuer-die-dar...</a><p>Overall, this sounds like the danger is rather low.

Anyone noticed how they wash and rinse behind bars? It can be terrifying. The ones that don&#x27;t use industrial dishwashers (bad as we&#x27;re learning here) also just do a rapid sub 1 second dip into one sink with detergent chemicals, a sub 1 second dip onto a second water sink, and then upside down it goes on the shelf, ready to be reused.<p>How naive was I to think it&#x27;s both cleaning well and not leaving dangerous chemicals as residue to mix onto a water or beer.

I might be generalising but in some countries (UK) it&#x27;s common to not rinse soap&#x2F;washing up liquid off dishes after washing them by hand. Being hypochondriac I was always curious about health aspects of this and feared something similar to what&#x27;s described in the article.

I really want safety tests for consumer products to not be black&#x2F;white.<p>Instead, more and more tests should be necessary for the more people you want to sell your product to, and the more people use it.<p>Some toy you sell 1000 of to people at a craft fayre should require a simple declaration that you didn&#x27;t knowingly use leaded paint, while something you sell 10 billion of (eg dishwasher tablets) should require a whole independent team of scientists to do every study they can think of the establish risk&#x2F;benefit.

Interesting! I bought metal straws a while back for use at home, and I used to clean them in the dishwasher. After a while I realized that my stomach acted up almost every time I used them (regular aspartame sweetened sodas). It stopped when I started washing them by hand. My theory: There was detergent or rinse aid left inside. About as unscientific as you can get but I&#x27;m &quot;certain&quot;...

If you want to understand rinse aids better, I recommend this Technology Connections video (I&#x27;ve set the time stamp to the rinse aid section): <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=Ll6-eGDpimU&amp;t=1935s">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=Ll6-eGDpimU&amp;t=1935s</a>

Off topic: this is my first time hearing of rinse aids. It really feels odd (to me) that such a thing would exist. I thought we all just used water and a napkin.<p>I also have no experience with dishwashers, so how different is dishwater detergent from regular dishwashing soap?

From the article:<p>&gt;An exciting finding of the present study is that alcohol ethoxylates that are responsible for these toxic effects can be extracted from recently washed dishware and still kept the toxicity.<p>Scientists.

Interesting, my mother taught me to always rinse the soap off from my dishes thoroughly and look at that. Sometimes superstition is more useful than expert advice.

I wonder if this, combined with the fact that eating out has gotten significantly more common, is a factor in rising colon cancer rates.

I wonder if putting the dishwasher in soft water mode will also reduce the risk of this. Should use less rinse aid then.

How effective would vinegar and the hottest water cycle be vs these gut destroying detergents?

Anyone who has touched an unwrapped dishwasher tablet with wet hands can tell you it has stuff in to pretty rapidly dissolve human...

Horrible title, since the study didn&#x27;t actually link normal detergent to gut damage, just rinse aid.

&gt; Enterocytic liquid-liquid interfaces were established on permeable supports, and direct cellular cytotoxicity, transepithelial electrical resistance, paracellular flux, immunofluorescence staining, RNA-sequencing transcriptome, and targeted proteomics were performed.<p>tldr; they did science

Is there an ELI5?

Scientists create a layer of intestinal epithelial cells in a lab, minus all the other components in your intestine, then expose them to high concentrations of detergent and rinse aid.<p>Turns out cells don’t like it.<p>Who’d a thunk it?