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Americans' 'YOLO' spending spree baffles economists

63 点作者 safaa1993超过 1 年前

24 条评论

Aloha超过 1 年前
Anyone who went thru went felt like a life changing (and life challenging) event, like the pandemic, is not going to behave in the same way people used to (before they had those experiences).<p>Because of social media, and the media - people felt, quite acutely - the very real risks of COVID - basically people felt (with some truth) that they were lucky to escape the pandemic alive, and because of this, are acting in a YOLO way - you saw people behave the same way 100 years ago from the combined effects of the 1918 Flu Pandemic and World War 1 - all over the world, but particularly in the United States.<p>I dont think we&#x27;re really fundamentally understanding the real world psychological effects of the Pandemic and the psychological effects of feeling like we were living in an emergency for 18-24 months - and I think it&#x27;ll likely take a decade or more to really analyze and process this.
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demosthanos超过 1 年前
&gt; &quot;If 18 months ago, you&#x27;d have said the Federal Reserve Bank could raise interest rates by 500 basis points, and the consumer would chug on, relatively unfazed, I would have been extremely surprised,&quot; says Ellie Henderson, an economist at UK-based, global bank Investec. &quot;I&#x27;d have said, &#x27;that&#x27;s just not how economics works&#x27;.&quot;<p>Economics is such a funny field to me. The systems involved are incredibly complex, yet economists habitually speak as though their models are anything more than that: models.<p>Somehow we got into a place where policy is made on the explicit assumption that the Federal Reserve Bank is in possession of a mystical lever, a single number that they can change to steer the behavior of more than 300 million people. As a layperson, it&#x27;s incredibly obvious that interest rates are but a single variable in an enormously complex equation that we have <i>no hope</i> of recreating in a spreadsheet, but somehow that comes as a surprise to the professionals.
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dragonwriter超过 1 年前
&gt; This &quot;YOLO&quot; attitude towards money bucks the spending trends of past economic downturns<p>The 5.1% annualized GDP growth rate last quarter <i>also</i> bucks the trends of past economic downturns.<p>If neither aggregate output <i>nor</i> consumer behavior are acting like a downturn, maybe the thing that should be surprising is the description that there is an &quot;economic downturn&quot;.
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jfengel超过 1 年前
I&#x27;m surprised they&#x27;re surprised. Inflation makes people want to buy things before they get more expensive. Even if inflation cools prices will never be this low, and savings will be worth less tomorrow than today.<p>Seems like reasonable behavior to me.
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jmyeet超过 1 年前
My theory is the two underlying causes are:<p>1. Inflation benefits spending now. What you want is only getting more expensive. Also, any debt you have is having its real value reduced without you having to do anything so why pay it off? and<p>2. Despair. For a lot of people, they&#x27;re struggling to make ends meet. There is no concept of saving for the future or even being able to retire. For an increasing number of people the stability of home ownership is increasingly out of reach. The retirement plan for these people is simply to die in debt. Plus people think about their mortality when you go through a pandemic where over a million Americans died and there was massive disruption to people&#x27;s lives. The real spending power of people has also been eaten away by the rising cost of necessities (which the article mentions).
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nytesky超过 1 年前
I have two questions.<p>BNPL seem to be about 4 weeks — isn’t that about the grace period for a paid off credit card? If anything I thinking you charge at the beginning of a cycle, you get 7 weeks? Am I misunderstanding?<p>I heard on Planet Money how consumer sentiment is down in the Michigan survey, and I am really wondering if there is a bias in how the survey is run. With caller id and modern cell phones, I imagine there are pretty big demographic bias in who will willingly participate in a survey, and I suspect their outlook will dominate and may not be representative of the populace? Do they have a realistic way to collect reliable data in modern era?
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chasd00超过 1 年前
Sentiment will always be pessimistic because optimism doesn’t trend on social media. Consumer sentiment isn’t meaningful in the social media era.
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jdlyga超过 1 年前
The efficient market hypothesis taken down another peg
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MisterBastahrd超过 1 年前
The United States has $1.08T cumulative credit card debt. Somehow, we&#x27;ve managed to give trillions away to business owners for fucking up their own finances, but individuals should be left to rot in the sun under insanely usurious rates.<p>I&#x27;m not saying it&#x27;s right. I&#x27;m just saying that the only reason that one set of bad decisions gets alleviated and the other one doesn&#x27;t is because of who donates what. Wiping out that balance would also obliterate a lot of retail banks.
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lamontcg超过 1 年前
The question to start asking, pretty soon, is if the booming economy means that the Fed is going to have to raise rates and step on the brake pedal even harder?<p>Pretty soon sentiment is likely to shift towards &quot;good news is bad news&quot; if inflation starts to tick up again. Everyone is talking about how hiring is good and people are spending all kinds of money, that means more money chasing goods, which is going to be inflationary. Again.<p>And we know what the Fed&#x27;s views are on inflation.<p>Meanwhile CMBS continues to slowly melt down as loans hit maturity dates and fail to pay off and debt service triples on them. Distressed office loans have increased from 3% a year ago to over 10.5% now. And across the economy, all the bad bets of the ZIRP era are finally getting stress tested.
sdenton4超过 1 年前
Tell me why I&#x27;m wrong...<p>The federal interest rate applies to loans, so the main first order effect for consumers is via mortgage rates and car loans. However, home sales are low because prices have been sticky despite the higher interest rates, leading to far fewer sales as people can&#x27;t afford the higher mortgage costs. Meanwhile, people who already own houses are completely insulated from mortgage rate changes.<p>So, consumer spending is relatively insulated from first order effects of the federal interest rate, especially for existing homeowners.
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quickthrower2超过 1 年前
What if much Black Friday spending is buying stuff cheaper they would have needed anyway? That would be in line with a frugal outlook. People being savvy consumers.
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friend_and_foe超过 1 年前
I can tell you why. The same reason everyone blows their paychecks as soon as humanly possible in Venezuela.<p>Prices go up slow enough but faster than they used to, people slow down their spending because times are tight. Prices go up fast enough, people spend their money before it is worth less than it is right now.<p>I&#x27;m not surprised it baffles economists. Economists are mostly just finance analysts nowadays.
jrflowers超过 1 年前
I love being an economist and waking up in a sweat in the middle of the night to a terrifying riddle: “given the base points situation, how do they still decide to pay rent”
_nalply超过 1 年前
Let&#x27;s say the inconvenient truth: Our ship is sinking.<p>Let&#x27;s party as long it&#x27;s going good. Let&#x27;s party like there&#x27;s no tomorrow.
smeagull超过 1 年前
If you know that you&#x27;re never going to save enough for a house, then you no longer have an incentive to save long-term.
libraryatnight超过 1 年前
Retail therapy!
doc_shekt超过 1 年前
There&#x27;s no drive to save for the future of you feel like there&#x27;s no future.
nine_zeros超过 1 年前
Anecdotally, my non-tech peer group have a booming economy thanks to the Inflation Reduction Act, Infrastructure Act, and Chips Act. Business owners are seeing orders go through the roof which they attribute to booming manufacturing, trades and retail. They don&#x27;t believe it when I say tech is in recession (or at least laying off&#x2F;reducing headcount).
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ac130kz超过 1 年前
Moloko&#x27;s &quot;Time is Now&quot; was playing in my head during this Black Friday.
mensetmanusman超过 1 年前
Someone has to keep the game of musical chairs going!
baazaa超过 1 年前
The massive generational redistribution of wealth means that naturally the interest-rate consumer spending link has changed. Before higher interest rates meant boomers had less to spend after their mortgage, now it means they have more to spend from returns on their investments.
mainpassathome超过 1 年前
economists when people aren’t rational economic actors: <i>shocked pikachu face</i>
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paxys超过 1 年前
Credit cards and BNPL are the new subprime mortgage. Yeah the economy is great while everyone is spending like there&#x27;s no tomorrow, but there will be a time soon enough when it&#x27;ll be obvious that the trillions of dollars in consumer debt we have racked up simply aren&#x27;t getting paid back.