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Show HN: Beeper Mini – iMessage client for Android

1521 点作者 erohead超过 1 年前
Hi HN! I’m proud to share that we have built a real 3rd party iMessage client for Android. We did it by reverse engineering the iMessage protocol and encryption system. It&#x27;s available to download today (no waitlist): <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;play.google.com&#x2F;store&#x2F;apps&#x2F;details?id=com.beeper.ima">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;play.google.com&#x2F;store&#x2F;apps&#x2F;details?id=com.beeper.ima</a> and there&#x27;s a technical writeup here: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;blog.beeper.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;how-beeper-mini-works">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;blog.beeper.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;how-beeper-mini-works</a>.<p>Unlike every other attempt to build an iMessage app for Android (including our first gen app), Beeper Mini does not use a Mac server relay in the cloud. The app connects directly to Apple servers to send and receive end-to-end encrypted messages. Encryption keys never leave your device. No Apple ID is required. Beeper does not have access to your Apple account.<p>With Beeper Mini, your Android phone number is registered on iMessage. You show up as a ‘blue bubble’ when iPhone friends text you, and can join real iMessage group chats. All chat features like typing status, read receipts, full resolution images&#x2F;video, emoji reactions, voice notes, editing&#x2F;unsending, stickers etc are supported.<p>This is all unprecedented, so I imagine you may have a lot of questions. We’ve written a detailed technical blog post about how Beeper Mini works: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;blog.beeper.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;how-beeper-mini-works">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;blog.beeper.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;how-beeper-mini-works</a>. A team member has published an open source Python iMessage protocol PoC on Github: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;JJTech0130&#x2F;pypush">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;JJTech0130&#x2F;pypush</a>. You can try it yourself on any Mac&#x2F;Windows&#x2F;Linux computer and see how iMessage works. My cofounder and I are also here to answer questions in the comments.<p>Our long term vision is to build a universal chat app (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;blog.beeper.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;were-building-the-best-chat-app-on">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;blog.beeper.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;were-building-the-best-chat-app-on</a>). Over the next few months, we will be adding support for SMS&#x2F;RCS, WhatsApp, Signal and 12 other chat networks into Beeper Mini. At that point, we’ll drop the `Mini` postfix. We’re also rebuilding our Beeper Desktop and iOS apps to support our new ‘client-side bridge’ architecture that preserves full end-to-end encryption. We’re also renaming our first gen apps to ‘Beeper Cloud’ to more clearly differentiate them from Beeper Mini.<p>Side note: many people always ask ‘what do you think Apple is going to do about this?’ To be honest, I am shocked that everyone is so shocked by the sheer existence of a 3rd party iMessage client. The internet has always had 3rd party clients! It’s almost like people have forgotten that iChat (the app that iMessage grew out of) was itself a multi-protocol chat app! It supported AIM, Jabber and Google talk. Here’s a blast from the past: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;i.imgur.com&#x2F;k6rmOgq.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;i.imgur.com&#x2F;k6rmOgq.png</a>.

144 条评论

bogwog超过 1 年前
This seems like it won&#x27;t last, but it&#x27;s AWESOME and I really hope you survive Apple&#x27;s inevitable attempts to kill this. A universal chat application would be amazing, and will maybe help bring attention to the value of standards and interoperability (hopefully by governments&#x2F;regulators).
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altairprime超过 1 年前
This downloads from GitHub and ’executes’ specific code points in what looks like a proprietary Apple binary, ‘IMDAppleServices’. Where was that binary sourced? Could you provide more context for what is performed at the hard-coded call-in addresses in your code? Does this relate to how you’re presenting a unique device identifier to the network? Do all clients share one identifier, or is it generated per Apple ID? Have any Apple IDs been locked out of iMessage during your development and testing?
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danpalmer超过 1 年前
I already had a significant respect for Beeper (Cloud) as a technical product. The backend being Matrix with open source bridges was a great choice.<p>This write up adds so much more to that respect. It would have been easy to botch this, it would have been easy to do a worse implementation that would have caused problems for users <i>whether they cared or not</i>, but Beeper seemingly took the time to get right.<p>Congrats to Eric and the team on the launch!
sprite超过 1 年前
Did you get permission from Apple to connect to their servers? Google Play does not allow apps to connect to 3rd party APIs without consent.<p>The relevant policy can be found at: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;support.google.com&#x2F;googleplay&#x2F;android-developer&#x2F;answer&#x2F;9888379" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;support.google.com&#x2F;googleplay&#x2F;android-developer&#x2F;answ...</a><p>&quot;We don’t allow apps that interfere with, disrupt, damage, or access in an unauthorized manner the user’s device, other devices or computers, servers, networks, application programming interfaces (APIs), or services, including but not limited to other apps on the device, any Google service, or an authorized carrier’s network.&quot;<p>From what I understand your app connects to APNS without permission from Apple.<p>I have personally had my Google Play Developer account banned for making an app that connected to a 3rd party service
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matsz超过 1 年前
Great job! Just from taking a quick look at this, what you have here is much bigger than iMessage itself.<p>This could literally allow things like Universal Clipboard to work on Linux and Windows - by using the method presented here to access the iCloud Keychain and generating Continuity keys and placing them there - then the iPhone will broadcast its clipboard data encrypted with those keys via BLE. If I understand all of this correctly.
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joshstrange超过 1 年前
Beeper is a really cool idea by some cool people (people behind the Pebble smartwatch) but I&#x27;ve resisted using it for fear of bans. I don&#x27;t want my Slack&#x2F;Discord&#x2F;Instagram&#x2F;AppleId&#x2F;etc to get banned for using something not allowed under the terms of service. How are people who use Beeper dealing with this? Are you just using dummy&#x2F;test accounts that you don&#x27;t care about or are you just rolling the dice.<p>I would like to live in a world where I could use Beeper without worry but I don&#x27;t feel like we currently live in that world. Am I wrong?
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jdiez17超过 1 年前
It seems that at least the push notification registration part uses a &quot;leaked&#x2F;extracted&quot; FairPlay private key [1]. As far as I understand, FairPlay certificates&#x2F;keys should be unique to each iDevice. Couldn&#x27;t Apple trivially ban all subscriptions originating from this fake device? The comment says you know how to generate more; does Beeper Mini generate one for each install? Why would Apple believe those certificates are authentic?<p>P.S.: the source repo mentioned in the comment (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;MiUnlockCode&#x2F;albertsimlockapple">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;MiUnlockCode&#x2F;albertsimlockapple</a>) is 404.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;JJTech0130&#x2F;pypush&#x2F;blob&#x2F;main&#x2F;albert.py#L16">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;JJTech0130&#x2F;pypush&#x2F;blob&#x2F;main&#x2F;albert.py#L16</a>
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szszrk超过 1 年前
OK, took a while to figure out what it is, as I barely know anyone using iphone. Though it&#x27;s not for me, BUT if they deliver this:<p>&gt; Over time, we will be adding all networks that Beeper supports into Beeper Mini, including SMS&#x2F;RCS, WhatsApp, Messenger, Signal, Telegram, Instagram, Twitter, Slack, Discord, Google Chat and Linkedin. We&#x27;ll also bring Beeper Mini to desktop and iOS.<p>I&#x27;m interested, even if it&#x27;s paid. I&#x27;d love to have most of those apps gone and use a cleaner one.
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VanTheBrand超过 1 年前
I think this might be launching at an opportune time. The EU is already trying to force them to open up the App Store and iMessage has a target on its back. A cease and desist about this won’t look great in the inevitable antitrust hearings…
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ddxv超过 1 年前
First they require email and personal info. Then they tell you it&#x27;s a monthly subscription. Felt like a terrible onboarding experience and a bit of a dark pattern.
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cschep超过 1 年前
This is an amazing technical achievement and there is no world where it doesn&#x27;t get banned.
windowshopping超过 1 年前
Dang, I support your efforts but I just don&#x27;t have any incentive to pay for a texting app. Normal texting and WhatsApp and discord and Instagram and tiktok messages etc etc are all free. So I just don&#x27;t really have a reason to subscribe to this.
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xd1936超过 1 年前
Really happy to see that original customers are getting this included as well. I was worried that this was a ploy to say &quot;we know we said you all would be grandfathered in, but that was for _Beeper Cloud_, our old legacy one. This new one is a monthly charge&quot;. Thanks for being great, @erohead
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madeofpalk超过 1 年前
&gt; many people always ask ‘what do you think Apple is going to do about this?’ To be honest, I am shocked that everyone is so shocked by the sheer existence of a 3rd party iMessage client.<p>These are two completely different concepts?<p>I’m aware third-party clients have existed for eons.<p>I also believe <i>Apple</i> would shut this down.
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kevincox超过 1 年前
Very interesting. I was under the impression that Apple used hardware keys to validate iMessage accounts. But it seems that this is able to talk directly to Apple without and Apple hardware? In the post it just says that you need to send and receive a SMS to register.
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pyrophane超过 1 年前
I&#x27;m on the fence about using this. I don&#x27;t want to switch all my conversations over to iMessage and then have Apple figure out how to ban this. That kind of feels like a recipe for lost messages.
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glitchc超过 1 年前
I was excited until it asked me to login with my Google account. If it doesn&#x27;t need an iCloud account why does it require my Google one?
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gadders超过 1 年前
It&#x27;s got one of those &quot;We&#x27;ll charge you if you forget to cancel&quot; subscriptions. Might be google&#x27;s fault, but I&#x27;m not signing up.<p>I remember Meebo (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Meebo" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Meebo</a>) tried to do a similar multi-chat client as well, but for the web.
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graphe超过 1 年前
Beeper was made by the pebble dev. Eric should have read the goal by Eli goldratt, it&#x27;s a case study of TOC. I still love my slides of time.<p>Pebble: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Pebble_(watch)" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Pebble_(watch)</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.kickstarter.com&#x2F;projects&#x2F;getpebble&#x2F;pebble-time-awesome-smartwatch-no-compromises" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.kickstarter.com&#x2F;projects&#x2F;getpebble&#x2F;pebble-time-a...</a>
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cdchn超过 1 年前
The unfortunately fatalist question to ask is... how long until Apple shuts it down?
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xinayder超过 1 年前
From their blogpost: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;blog.beeper.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;beeper-cloud-and-product-roadmap">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;blog.beeper.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;beeper-cloud-and-product-roadmap</a><p>&gt; Everything changed in August when a security researcher reverse engineered the iMessage protocol.<p>&gt; At a high level, here’s our product plan for the near future (in very rough order, and very subject to change): &gt; Add support for SMS, WhatsApp and Signal into Beeper Mini, using the same end-to-end encrypted client-side connection architecture. No cloud servers in the middle.<p>so they are changing their whole business model to rely on illegal proceedings, breaking the ToS of every service they want to provide an alternative for.<p>I&#x27;m pretty sure Apple isn&#x27;t fond of random people using their servers and their proprietary protocol on a client they haven&#x27;t created. Signal is the same, they C&amp;D every fork that becomes popular, the only official clients are the CLI and the ones they release (Signal is open source though). WhatsApp is also similar.<p>It&#x27;s interesting and disappointing to see that they are hoping to create a business model on top of that, and it will probably backfire and hurt Matrix users as well, because these chat companies will become stricter and completely forbid third-party clients.
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Mg6yDfjp5U超过 1 年前
I just downloaded it, and can&#x27;t get past the landing&#x2F;sign-in page: &quot;Google sign in error.null&quot;<p>Unfortunately, signing in with Google is the only option.
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servalan超过 1 年前
I&#x27;ve been using Beeper for 3-4 months. I find it very useful, easy to use, and easy to setup. I use both the mobile app and the desktop app.
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topsycatt超过 1 年前
Very cool, but some basic stuff is broken having used the app. For example, I&#x27;m unable to create a new conversation since I&#x27;m unable to click on a contact after having searched for their name in the &quot;New Chat&quot; flow. Looking forward to using it once this is fixed!<p>Edit: Seems like I have to double tap instead? Not super easy to use but it works so I&#x27;ll take it!
unshavedyak超过 1 年前
Side note, i&#x27;d love if Beeper could impl some &quot;standard&quot; open APIs to brute force us in a new unified direction. I feel like the chat ecosystem is in the days of pre-LSP editors. Anytime i wanted to try a new fancy term based editor, i&#x27;d lose out of very basic features like code completion, jumping, etc. Since LSP came around, i can basically jump to any editor because everyone has this baked in now, and it works with &quot;all&quot; languages - it&#x27;s great!<p>I want this for chat. I loved how great everything looked and felt with Telegram, but then i left for Signal and it was super bare bones. Eventually Signal got some stuff, but it&#x27;s still missing a lot of stupid features that make it fun for me (integrated gif lookups, etc).<p>I&#x27;d love if we could unify around some of these behaviors and as we add new chat apps, users don&#x27;t lose &quot;basic&quot; functionality.<p>Anyway, wishes aside - Beeper is really cool. I just signed up to Cloud, and my wife has been a happy user for quite a while.
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TrueDuality超过 1 年前
The biggest question I have is what does the exit story look like? I know it&#x27;s a common problem for people switching to Android from an iPhone (keeping their phone number) and not receiving any messages from iPhones as their contacts are still trying to send via iMessage.<p>What happens at the end of the trial when I choose it&#x27;s not for me. Will I suddenly loose my ability to text with every Apple user? What about in the event of a service failure of your infrastructure (it says it talks directly to Apple&#x27;s servers but does it also rely on you?)... What if Apple does go after you or makes a breaking change to the protocol?<p>In all those scenarios, what happens to my messages? Can I export and keep them?<p>I&#x27;m very interested to try but the potential to loose access even for a day or two is a really hard ask.
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lxe超过 1 年前
I&#x27;ve been using beeper for a long time for Linux, and it has been a delight to use. The updates are regular and they seem to constantly be working on improving performance and staying ahead of various breaking changes forced upon them by the messaging services.
cbsks超过 1 年前
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;blog.beeper.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;how-beeper-mini-works">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;blog.beeper.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;how-beeper-mini-works</a><p>&gt; SMS access is used to send an SMS text message from your number to Apple’s “Gateway” service. The gateway sends a response via SMS, and the contents from that SMS response are sent to Apple to register your phone number as a blue bubble. <i>Your SMS chat history is also used to determine if any of your recent SMS chats were with people who have iPhones.</i> If so, these chats are shown in the inbox.<p>Does this mean that Apple is sent the phone number of every person you have ever sent or received an SMS with?<p>Very cool program, by the way. It’s refreshing to see a company take privacy seriously.
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llm_nerd超过 1 年前
My first thought is &quot;was Apple behind this?&quot; I understand that they claim to have reverse engineered it...but if it&#x27;s such a trivial conversation exchange, it is a bit surprising this hasn&#x27;t been utilized before. Seems convenient given the loud exchanges happening about RCS and the like. And unlike RCS, iMessages actually has E2E baked in.<p>The next thought it the utilization for abuse such as spam. E2E is wonderful but it also means that the normal cryptoscammer &#x2F; phishing checks can&#x27;t apply. There are mentions of rate limits and that surely comes into play, but given the simple proof of concept it would be easy to scale out.
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brailsafe超过 1 年前
This is really cool, at least in theory. I keep hearing from only iPhone users on podcasts that they find it annoying to message amyone not on iOS. As an Android user, I couldn&#x27;t imagine this being a concern to me; have any of you Android users even had the passing thought that you&#x27;re missing out on hypothetical conversations between people who only use iMessage?<p>I use Messenger for the gen x people in my life, Signal for others, and sms and google chat for some others, but I don&#x27;t even know what devices any of my friends use on a regular basis, seems arbitrary to me.
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rootusrootus超过 1 年前
At this point, why not just wait for Apple to release their RCS implementation?<p>The nicest thing about iMessage (for me, at least) has always been that it was a significant improvement to SMS that just worked, with graceful fallback to SMS for anyone who didn&#x27;t use it. No installing third party apps, wondering if someone new I wanted to contact would be on that messaging app, etc. A nice bonus, but not something that would ever get in my way. Wanting to install a third-party app on an Android phone just to get blue bubbles is weird.
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b8超过 1 年前
The fee and requiring account signup are a dealbreaker. Hopefully someone will create a FLOSS alternative.
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alxjsn超过 1 年前
JJTech is a high school student. Neat!<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;jjtech.dev&#x2F;reverse-engineering&#x2F;imessage-explained&#x2F;" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;jjtech.dev&#x2F;reverse-engineering&#x2F;imessage-explained&#x2F;</a>
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david_van_loon超过 1 年前
Great work, this looks very cool and seems to work well. I hope one day to see a local backup option, as it&#x27;s important to me that my chats are not lost.
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pelletier超过 1 年前
How does the generation of validation data for registration work? As far as I understand, this requires details from an actual Apple device (serial number, model, etc.)
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nfriedly超过 1 年前
This reminds me of using Trillian to connect to AIM, MSN, ICQ, etc. back in the day.
very_good_man超过 1 年前
The people in control of Apple know their market power, ironically, derives from a closed-garden messaging product. Exactly like Blackberry.<p>The longer the anti-customer behavior continues the greater the resentment becomes. Customers do not like being treated as captives to Wall Street thinking. Mega-tech will face consequences for the unapologetic greed they exhibit right now.
fuddle超过 1 年前
I&#x27;m really surprised people will go to so much effort for a blue bubble.
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keyme超过 1 年前
Whatsapp is known for banning accounts that use any kind of third party clients.<p>For Android users on iMessage (insane achievement!) obviously this isn&#x27;t such a big issue, as they didn&#x27;t have an account before, so the sanction of being banned is not so important.<p>I would never dare, however, to switch over my WhatsApp to a 3rd party client. Do you have something planned in this regard?
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pyrophane超过 1 年前
&gt; &#x27;many people always ask ‘what do you think Apple is going to do about this?&#x27; I am shocked that everyone is so shocked by the sheer existence of a 3rd party iMessage client.<p>I&#x27;m not shocked that someone figured out how to create a 3rd-party iMessage client, however I am somewhat skeptical of the notion that Apple will not find a way to break it.
varun_ch超过 1 年前
If this really works, it is what Nothing&#x27;s partnership with Sunbird claimed to do (and lied about) a couple weeks ago - before being called out and shut down<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;texts.blog&#x2F;2023&#x2F;11&#x2F;18&#x2F;sunbird-security&#x2F;" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;texts.blog&#x2F;2023&#x2F;11&#x2F;18&#x2F;sunbird-security&#x2F;</a>
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janandonly超过 1 年前
I&#x27;m using Beeper on my Mac and iPad, specifically to chat with friends who are on arcane chat platforms such as Instagram.<p>I&#x27;m quite happy with how the service works, and wrote a review a while back: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=37745270">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=37745270</a>
heyoni超过 1 年前
How come there’s a waitlist for the main product but not this one? I feel like it should be the other way around?
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awat超过 1 年前
Fortunately, I think this is going to be a forcing function for the RCS conversation.<p>Unfortunately, I&#x27;ll be waiting for the data loss post coming in the near future. As some one who had to deal with a stuck iMessage validation with Apple support on a genuine iPhone a few years back this can get sticky.
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rdl超过 1 年前
This is amazing -- I&#x27;ve been a happy Beeper user for everything except iMessage and Signal until now, and this mostly kept me from using iMessage much at all. Congratulations to the team, and wow -- that high school kid hopefully has a long and impressive career ahead of him.
skeptrune超过 1 年前
This is incredibly awesome. You really don&#x27;t think Apple is going to attempt to crack down on this?
yincrash超过 1 年前
Looking at the pypush, it looks like it uses Mac framework code with a .plist from a real Mac to generate encryption keys. Is beeper sending the metadeta of a genuine mac to the client so the client can generate the encryption keys that Apple will trust?
mikae1超过 1 年前
Will this be available from F-Droid or as an APK? I&#x27;m using a deGoogled device. Too cool!
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moron4hire超过 1 年前
So yeah, it seems ok for one-on-one chats, but for group chats it&#x27;s super buggy. Can&#x27;t tell who said what in the history of any of my group chats because Beeper Mini is confused and thinks all of the messages, left and right, are from me.
rock_artist超过 1 年前
&gt; We currently offer a 7 day free trial, afterwards there is a $1.99 per month subscription. Beeper Mini is available to download today with no waitlist.<p>&gt; Our business model is simple - we build a great app and earn money from those who find value in it. We feel that this business model aligns our success with your goals. No ads. Complete data security and privacy. Plus, we’re incentivized to continue improving the app with new features and improvements.<p>So... Until a fully blown beeper with multiple services. This app basically is still a subscription based reversed engineered iMessage (unofficially) compatible client.
blondelegs超过 1 年前
I got into a debate with someone over this. It didn’t last. Apple killed it. Copyright Infringement is serious. They reversed engineered iMessage. In Apple TOU it specifically says that they are not allowed to do this. I would be expecting a response from Apple in the form of a lawsuit. Unjust enrichment by this company. They know better.
benmanns超过 1 年前
Is there any way to do this on iPhone? I use a Google Voice number since Google Voice came out, and I would love to iMessage from it, but Apple won&#x27;t let me add it as a number for the device.
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SpencerOMG超过 1 年前
I remember Nothing tech did something similar-ish not too long ago, but I can&#x27;t find their announcement of it. But then I stumbled upon a video talking about privacy concerns[0]. What&#x27;s the difference between what they did and what Beeper is doing? Sounds cool though, impressive work! (also, &quot;hacker&quot;-news needs to be more embracing of their name lol)<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=fMdj8RyMb64" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=fMdj8RyMb64</a>
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happyhardcore超过 1 年前
It&#x27;s really impressive that a high school student [1] has managed to reverse engineer iMessage. What I&#x27;m wondering is:<p>1. How stable is it; would it be trivial for Apple to patch this?<p>2. If it&#x27;s as simple as reverse engineering the protocols, how has it taken this long?<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;JJTech0130">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;JJTech0130</a>
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ilteris超过 1 年前
It is normal these days to have login with buttons BEFORE the subscription info? I mean I wouldn&#x27;t even try to download if I knew there was a monthly subscription fee. Thanks
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endisneigh超过 1 年前
So you can use this to spam iMessage?
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artursapek超过 1 年前
What&#x27;s hilarious about all this is the main reason people want iMessage on Android is not missing features, or speed, or anything practical. It&#x27;s because Apple chose an intentionally terrible shade of green to use for SMS messages, to make messaging Android users unpleasant. If they had used a green with similar contrast and saturation as their iMessage blue, this wouldn&#x27;t be such a big deal. Literally a single color swatch, that&#x27;s what this is about.
Always_Anon超过 1 年前
I wonder how much money Apple would make by releasing an Android app that for $1 a month, would allow Android users the ability to have a &quot;blue bubble&quot; or whatever.
oldandboring超过 1 年前
Thinking maybe this isn&#x27;t working. I downloaded, installed. It said it detected all my chats with iPhone users and that I was &#x27;upgraded&#x27; to iMessage chats with them. I then tried using Beeper Mini to message someone I know has an iPhone (continuing our existing chat that it &#x27;upgraded&#x27; from SMS) and I asked him if I was coming up as a blue bubble and he said it&#x27;s &#x27;grey&#x27;, not green and definitely not blue.
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pietrosmusi超过 1 年前
Could you guys please explain why Telegram sent me this: &quot; Data export request. (censored), we received a request from your account to export your Telegram data.<p>Device: Beeper, 0.15.0, Beeper bridge server, Web, 1.33.0a1 Location: Germany (IP = 178.63.65.55)<p>For security reasons, please confirm this request by pressing the Allow button at the bottom of this message using one of your mobile devices.&quot;
kwerk超过 1 年前
The referenced technical write up is fascinating[0]<p>I wonder how well this architecture (including privacy preservation) would work for LinkedIn messaging?<p>Specifically the BPN service since that seems to come from a data center IP and more likely for Apple &#x2F; others to have a choke point.<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;blog.beeper.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;721485af-aad0-4962-b418-eea9bc1e8f86">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;blog.beeper.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;721485af-aad0-4962-b418-eea9bc1e8f...</a>
notdang超过 1 年前
Trying to use this an I am stuck at the AppleID login screen (I don&#x27;t have an AppleID).<p>However from your message it seems that it should not be required:<p>&gt;No Apple ID is required
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purpleidea超过 1 年前
Has anyone played with pypush enough ( <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;JJTech0130&#x2F;pypush">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;JJTech0130&#x2F;pypush</a> ) that I think this is based on to get it easily usable in the same way that signal-cli is? Would be neat to use this for actually cli sending to my one or two friends stuck in Apple land. Thanks!
classicmotto超过 1 年前
If this is a standalone app (not requiring ongoing server&#x2F;relay maintenances), why charge a monthly fee and not a one-time fee?
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chupchap超过 1 年前
Sounds like Texts the app Automattic acquired <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theverge.com&#x2F;2023&#x2F;10&#x2F;24&#x2F;23928685&#x2F;automattic-texts-acquisition-universal-messaging" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theverge.com&#x2F;2023&#x2F;10&#x2F;24&#x2F;23928685&#x2F;automattic-text...</a><p>These all-in-one messaging apps should be interesting
sauwan超过 1 年前
Can I make this work with my Google Voice number?
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bigallen超过 1 年前
This is the coolest thing I have seen all day! I’ve been using Jared [1] running on a Mac VM to send and receive iMessages from my locally hosted AI. If I could just use a python library that would make my life significantly easier<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;ZekeSnider&#x2F;Jared">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;ZekeSnider&#x2F;Jared</a>
wkat4242超过 1 年前
Really annoying that I need a Google account though. I don&#x27;t have one of those (yes I&#x27;m on Android but not Google)
lemax超过 1 年前
This is a really impressive reverse engineering feat of the iMessage protocol, all the way down to the iMessage auth flows and identity credentials. The deep dive the authors posted is interesting<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;blog.beeper.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;how-beeper-mini-works">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;blog.beeper.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;how-beeper-mini-works</a>
spullara超过 1 年前
I am pretty sure this exploit is probably the source of iMessage spam so I hope they figure out how to close this hole.
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mderazon超过 1 年前
I love the concept of Beeper or now &quot;Beeper Cloud&quot; and I am trying really hard to use the app but the app is just too sluggish to be usable. I am not sure why, perhaps because it&#x27;s built on top of the Matrix oss app, not sure.<p>Eventually, opening WhatsApp&#x2F;Telegram is super quick and Beeper is too slow
globular-toast超过 1 年前
How can the most popular article on HN this week be just a bog standard messaging app? This should have been a solved problem long ago. But instead of a bunch of greedy bastards can&#x27;t give up even a tiny bit of control they have over other people.
zufallsheld超过 1 年前
I&#x27;m more interested in the future of now beeper cloud. As I understand it you will deprecate it at some point in the future. Does that mean that you will stop supporting the matrix bridges and go all in on the client side beeper?<p>Will beeper mini be open sourced?
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pcl超过 1 年前
Awesome!!<p>I&#x27;m an iOS user, and juggle SIMs a lot. For your upcoming iOS app -- what sorts of SIM liveness requirements do you require? I&#x27;d love to be able to auth periodically and predictably and then disable my iMessage-aware SIM for some period of time.
rahimnathwani超过 1 年前
I would love for this to work with my Google Voice number, instead of the number from my SIM.
unshavedyak超过 1 年前
My wife has been using Beeper for a while (6+ months? not sure), think i should give it a try.
keepamovin超过 1 年前
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;blog.beeper.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;how-beeper-mini-works">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;blog.beeper.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;how-beeper-mini-works</a><p>Very cool. A question: will you be revenue sharing with JJTech0130? Their work made this possible, correct?
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worldsavior超过 1 年前
Also see BlueBubbles[1]. It could easily be integrated with pypush&#x2F;rustpush.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;BlueBubblesApp&#x2F;bluebubbles-app">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;BlueBubblesApp&#x2F;bluebubbles-app</a>
tibbydudeza超过 1 年前
Good luck with this one - dunno how Apple is going to react - a Steve Jobs nuking upon from high via API changes or Tim Cook ignoring it and just disgruntled acceptance that it exists but not care why folks in the US choose Apple.
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paravz超过 1 年前
This brings back the days of trillian (the best multi-chat client for the desktop in the age of ICQ, AIM, MSN) that got killed by the raise of mobile phones and mobile chat apps.
vinniepukh超过 1 年前
I tried Beeper Mini today on my android phone&#x2F;phone number and it works!!<p>I probably won&#x27;t use it with my main AppleId due to fear of being locked out of it. They really do have me in an iron grip with their lock in.
paul7986超过 1 年前
Isnt Apple adopting RCS and won&#x27;t that solve the green &#x2F; blue bubble issue?<p>Personally if it&#x27;s a business &#x2F; marketing advantage unless their hand is forced for business reasons they should never change it.
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Melatonic超过 1 年前
Does anyone have a code for Beeper Mini and not just desktop Beeper ? On Android Beeper Mini always asks for a 1.99$ a month fee or a referral code and regular beeper codes do not seem to work.
dadoum超过 1 年前
Could it technically work without BPN by fetching messages from iCloud? I know that&#x27;s a whole another story (another tricky protocol to reverse) but it will make it one step closer to perfection imo.
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etchalon超过 1 年前
Apple is 100% going to ban this. While reverse engineering the protocol is fine, legally, Apple has a legal right to decide which clients can connect to its servers and from which clients it trusts data.
LanzVonL超过 1 年前
I&#x27;ve had a lot of trouble getting dates, women see the Android-colored bubbles when I message them, then they typically blow me off. I&#x27;m sure it&#x27;s the Android-colored bubbles.
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tantalor超过 1 年前
As Android user, this seems useless to me. What do I get by switching over to this &quot;blue bubble&quot; platform? RCS messaging is pretty good and has most of these advertised features already.
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dheera超过 1 年前
&gt; Blue bubbles on Android<p>I don&#x27;t get it, what&#x27;s the obsession with blue bubbles? I like my grey bubbles, they&#x27;re less eye-piercing.<p>If you want blue bubbles just use Facebook Messenger.
DigiEggz超过 1 年前
This is incredible! Excellent job on this. I regularly hunt for an app that can do what you&#x27;ve done, so it was a very pleasant surprise to see it as an HN post.
xyst超过 1 年前
Isn’t iMessage, amongst other things, the subject of some upcoming EU reg forcing it to be cross platform (or at least make APIs accessible)?<p>Thus, preceding the need of Beeper Mini.
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smashah超过 1 年前
Congrats on the Eric &amp; Team. Can&#x27;t wait to try it
sirmike_超过 1 年前
Curious to see the shelf life of this app. Very cool. Will have to test out. Although keeping at arms length in case ONE iOS update or android update nukes it.
ulyssys超过 1 年前
I&#x27;d like to use this without a Google account, and at most using only sandboxed Google Play services. Is that an option? It doesn&#x27;t seem to work.
Melatonic超过 1 年前
The real question is - even if they cannot find a way to lock out Beeper - will they find a way to identify beeper devices and make the bubbles green ?
yodon超过 1 年前
How long until this gets forked into an iMessage spam bot?
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pcdoodle超过 1 年前
Wow, this is cool. Thanks everyone for their hard work.
ronyeh超过 1 年前
This is a wonderful project. It highlights how silly Apple is. For those defending the existence of green bubbles, why don’t we swap blue with green then? Would you be okay with all your iMessages in that ugly green while your SMSes with Android friends are in calming blue?<p>I am typing this on an iPhone 15 pro max and I have several MacBook pros (M3 Max on the way) and everyone in my family has their own iPad.<p>I hate that Apple has created this thing where some folks ostracize others because they can taint your group chat with ugly green.
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system2超过 1 年前
I already got 2 iMessages from scammers. This won&#x27;t last a long time. I am sure Apple will stop it by checking the device type.
underlines超过 1 年前
Gives me Trillian vibes.<p>So let&#x27;s introduce my bias:<p>All Multi-Messengers in the past that relied on reverse engineering proprietary protocols vanished.
wills_forward超过 1 年前
Is this part of the reason Apple decided to support RCS? They knew the iMessage system would get opened up eventually anyway...
jerdthenerd超过 1 年前
Can anyone explain to me why it matters if you have iMessage or not? So what my friends see a green bubble when I message them?
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mathfailure超过 1 年前
Wanted to try it, but for some reason it requires a google account. I don&#x27;t have one.
hospitalJail超过 1 年前
Enjoy your job at Apple. RIP to this App.<p>To be fair, you really have to be an Apple fan to disable your messages for the sake of blue bubbles.
kwerk超过 1 年前
Curious how the BPN service presents to Apple.
InTheArena超过 1 年前
Its awesome to reverse engineer this... but..<p>At the end of the day, this product is taking money for using Apple Services with no recompense to Apple. It won&#x27;t last.<p>Apple should have added an iMessage client to Android (and charged for it) long, long, long ago, but it doesn&#x27;t change the ethics problem here.<p>(This is the downside to the &quot;just pay for it with hardware&quot; model people always love rather than paying subscription fees.)
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BorisMelnik超过 1 年前
this month has been crazy for Apple and text messages. First RCS now this! I am a bit nervous about jumping into this not knowing privacy implications. Normally I let HN &quot;vet&quot; apps like this but I think more will be revealed with this app, and not saying that in a bad way. It is going to be a crazy week!
rpmisms超过 1 年前
Well, it works, and works extremely well. I&#x27;ll be paying for this, simply because group chats are currently hell.
EricMausler超过 1 年前
Hi, I immediately subscribed.<p>Is there any way to adjust the display name for my contacts to use nicknames instead of contact name?
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nikolay超过 1 年前
Bad idea. I had my iCloud account in a constant autoblock mode. This works only with insecure Apple account setup.
999900000999超过 1 年前
I don&#x27;t actually think Apple will care enough to get rid of this.<p>But why not simply migrate away from iMessage, FB Messenger, Whatsapp and other services already offer most of the same features.<p>Or, hear me out. Normal texting still works. Trying to get in the cool Apple club without paying the toll seems counter productive.<p>Anyway, I&#x27;m not trusting a startup with my communications in this situation. I have no way to know what controls you have in place.
mcgeez超过 1 年前
I was added to a waitlist, despite their blog post saying there&#x27;s none. Is anyone else dealing with this?
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skygazer超过 1 年前
Does this mean it’s trivial to spoof iMessage from arbitrary phone numbers not already registered with iMessage, or hijack any non-iPhone users SMS messages by tricking the iPhones they communicate with to send replies via iMessage to the spoofer rather than SMS? If this is true, (edit: probably not true,) and I’m just speculating without specific knowledge, it seems Apple would shut this down for legitimate security reasons, and perhaps re-engineer things to prevent this.
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Kab1r超过 1 年前
Hate to be &quot;that guy&quot;, but pypush technically isn&#x27;t open source because SSPL isn&#x27;t an OSI approved license.
NelsonMinar超过 1 年前
It&#x27;s shameful that Apple forces people to go to these lengths to send messages to their users.
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LelouBil超过 1 年前
I have tried Beeper before, and I am really happy that you are pivoting to client side bridges !
kbrisso超过 1 年前
Subscribed! I&#x27;m guessing that nothing needs to be done to let my friends know? It just works?
barbazoo超过 1 年前
I don’t know what’s going on but these blue bubbles must be extremely important for people.
PawgerZ超过 1 年前
#191,000 in the waitlist. Can&#x27;t wait to try it in a couple months hahaha.
satiric超过 1 年前
Don&#x27;t wait until I&#x27;ve given you access to my Google account to tell me that it&#x27;s a paid service... that&#x27;s just scummy and a fantastic way to lose me as a customer. Seen a lot of hype around this, but please at least be transparent.<p>To be clear, I&#x27;m not surprised it&#x27;s a paid service, and I think it&#x27;s reasonable to pay for this. It just leaves a sour taste in my mouth that could have been easily avoided.
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bambax超过 1 年前
I&#x27;m sorry but don&#x27;t understand exactly what this is. Is it a universal text app that you can use for all your contacts? Or do you need to know if the person you&#x27;re texting with has an iPhone or not?<p>Given the excitement and number of upvotes I&#x27;m obviously missing something, but I&#x27;m at a loss.
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impish9208超过 1 年前
Whenever this issue of iMessage crops up on HN, I’ve come to expect the usual points from both sides. However, the one thing that’s never addressed is the “why” of it all. For a group that ostensibly values openness and interoperability, why spend so much effort and energy to climb into a walled garden?
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brianjking超过 1 年前
The thing that leaves me confused is what will happen to the main Beeper app?
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walteweiss超过 1 年前
&gt;No Apple ID is required<p>How are you going to send the messages? Whom from, a phone number?
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DeathArrow超过 1 年前
Great, now we need a good AirDrop client for Android and Windows. :)
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podviaznikov超过 1 年前
this is nice!<p>I&#x27;m working on small tool to make microblog using iMessage. Proper API would simplify many things.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;bubbleboi.com" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;bubbleboi.com</a>
riversflow超过 1 年前
How are you going about your treatment of disappearing messages?
chirau超过 1 年前
I&#x27;d love to try this. Anyone with a referral code?
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tiborsaas超过 1 年前
Does anyone care about what color a message is?
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bagels超过 1 年前
Why do people care so much about the bubble color?
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roguas超过 1 年前
Euro folks here: Oh, this thing again.
itaysk超过 1 年前
i&#x27;d pay for a good whatsapp client for apple devices. unfortunately it&#x27;s so prevalent that i have to use it
hemmert超过 1 年前
Great to see this! Keep it up, Eric and team!
bmikaili超过 1 年前
That&#x27;s painful for nothing phone
sneak超过 1 年前
What is the license for this app?
Melatonic超过 1 年前
Anybody got a referral code ?
monkeynotes超过 1 年前
&gt; I am shocked that everyone is so shocked by the sheer existence<p>Huh? It&#x27;s not being shocked, the legitimate question is what is Apply going to do? Saying you are shocked does not answer the question, if people buy into Beeper how likely is it that they lose functionality due to an Apple lock out?
darkest_ruby超过 1 年前
can somebody explain why everyone so obsessed with getting iMessage on Android?<p>it&#x27;s a genuine question, no sarcasm. I the last 12 years of using Android i&#x27;ve never had to send message to iMessage. So i really dont get the hype.
unobatbayar超过 1 年前
But, why?
dabluecaboose超过 1 年前
Hi Eric! Big fan of Beeper, Pebble, and hopefully the yet-to-be small android phone. I had some questions that I was ill-equipped to answer, and hoped I could throw them your way!<p>When I installed beeper, I mentioned it to my friends that I was using it as a bridge for Signal. They threw a pretty big conniption about the implementation and the fact that all our messages were being routed through an unknown server in Germany with source code we could not read or audit (the Synapse&#x2F;Matrix server beeper.com, as I understand it).<p>There were also some unfounded tinfoil-hat allegations that Beeper is an intelligence honeypot meant to slurp up all Signal encrypted comms that pass through its Matrix bridge, before forwarding them (although I don&#x27;t give those any credence)<p>What reassurances might I be able to provide them? The UX for the Signal app has been going somewhat downhill as of late and I&#x27;d like to keep using Beeper if I can assuage their fears.
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actionfromafar超过 1 年前
Recently I got a <i>spam</i> iMessage from a sort of empty contact. There was no number, no email address. I thought this was impossible, that there had to some kind of ID connected.<p>Can someone explain what&#x27;s going on?
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itslennysfault超过 1 年前
First... I want to say this is awesome and really really cool. I&#x27;m an android user and honestly don&#x27;t care about blue bubble or iMessage features, but I know A LOT of people care a lot about it, and its really cool to see a solution that doesn&#x27;t involve passing Apple credentials to some 3rd party service.<p>That said... I will be SHOCKED if Apple doesn&#x27;t prevent this in some way in short order.<p>Could be through legal action (not a lawyer don&#x27;t know if they have a leg to stand on)<p>Could be through technical means (pretty sure there are multiple ways they could break this)<p>...but regardless I highly doubt they will let this fly for long.
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KETpXDDzR超过 1 年前
Do I understand correctly that you charge $8&#x2F;month for this? I can&#x27;t wait for an open source version of this app.
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vzaliva超过 1 年前
&quot;Beeper does not have an official office, and we all work from home: ..., Sochi, ..., Kiev, ....&quot;.<p>So they work with Russia and do not know how to spell the capital of Ukraine.
lobochrome超过 1 年前
In principle - it&#x27;s cool - but I already dread the increased iMessage spam that this will surely bring.<p>WhatsApp is already almost useless with Notifications turned on for me. Maybe this is specific to Japanese phone numbers, but iMessage was always the safe spot where no fishing&#x2F;scams happened.<p>My mother actually got scammed out of ~2000 USD on WhatsApp.<p>I think I hope Apple kills this fast.
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