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The Long Shadow of Checks

120 点作者 zepton超过 1 年前

10 条评论

peter_l_downs超过 1 年前
&gt; One control which we made for checks to reduce systemic risk continues to have consequences more than a century later. Most disagreements between you and a grocery store are beneath the notice of the law. If you and your grocery store have a disagreement about a check specifically, you can go to jail. The crime is sometimes called “uttering”, for charming historical reasons.<p>patio11: you write a lot, and have taught me a lot, and I appreciate it. But I want to make a small complaint. You frequently say things like &quot;for charming historical reasons&quot; and then _cite no sources_. Link something! Cite something! As a reader, I regularly feel like you are teasing me or showing off to me when you include all these small asides without any further reference or any concrete details.
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e63f67dd-065b超过 1 年前
I&#x27;m continually surprised by the political influence held by the thousands of tiny banks in the country. I must applaud the people behind the Check 21 Act: it&#x27;s the combination of a neat backwards compatibility trick (if you want paper, we&#x27;ll print it and send it to you) and political maneuvering that I must admire it.<p>&gt; Since the standard U.S. bank account is a checking account, even if it cannot write checks, it is necessarily a credit product.<p>Why is this the case? Checking accounts without the ability to overdraft and thus create credit risk exist; I&#x27;ve always wondered why they&#x27;re not more widespread. Is it a problem that people who are Chex blacklisted are unprofitable anyways?
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stevenjgarner超过 1 年前
&gt; “Clearing” is a magic finance word. Clearing a check refers to completing the process which the check agrees to: the writer sees money leave their account and the person depositing the check sees it enter theirs. This is much more complicated than it sounds in this quick gloss.<p>Just because the writer of the check sees the funds of their check leave their account, this does not mean the recipient of the check has collected those funds. At any given moment, there is a considerable amount of money belonging either to check writers or recipients, not under their control yet being invested in overnight investments and repurchase agreements for the profit of the bank(s) involved. This becomes quite exaggerated when you think of the time zones involved and the fact that the resolution of the clearing houses is greater than or equal to 24 hours. So a check from an account in Puerto Rico to an account in Hawaii will take a minimum of 24 + 6 hours = 30 hours for the bank(s) to get a return on their customer funds. As the article points out, the &quot;clearing&quot; of funds to the recipient&#x27;s account is an act of credit and not an act of money transfer.
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secabeen超过 1 年前
The compelling thing for me still with checks is that the banks take on nearly all the costs of processing them, and what costs are imposed on the customer are fixed, and do not scale with the amount of money being transferred. It&#x27;s possible to do fixed-cost transfers using other systems (PayPal, Venmo, etc.) but it always feels like those transfers are only tolerated, and they really want to push you to their other offerings where they can get their vig.
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dqv超过 1 年前
It&#x27;s interesting to see this discussion about speeding up check processing, because it seems that a lot of people use checks to <i>slow payments down</i>. It&#x27;s a convenient way to make it inconvenient for the receiving party!<p>It works like this: receive invoice, wait until due date, write a check dated for the due date, wait a few days, send it through regular mail, and complain about the past due notices because &quot;I&#x27;ve already sent the payment!! Did you lose it or something?&quot; Applying late fees doesn&#x27;t work either, they&#x27;ll just send a late payment again without the late fee included.<p>At first, I genuinely thought it was because they preferred checks for record keeping purposes, but when I set up echeck and told them how they just need to call us and give us the check number to pay. Or they can just enter their information at our payment processor&#x27;s portal. Nope! It&#x27;s &quot;insecure&quot; (Sir&#x2F;Madam, you&#x27;re sending me a piece of paper with your bank account and routing number and it&#x27;s going through the mailing system where mail gets lost...). For that same reason, they don&#x27;t want to pay with a card either.<p>That&#x27;s why the cost of paying the transaction fees for card processing is so worth it to me. I got the check scanner years before the COVID lockdowns to speed things up, but nothing beats the sometimes instant card settlement deposits. I still accept checks from responsible, timely payors, but stop doing business with anyone who has a pattern of paying late with checks. It&#x27;s not worth the additional work to get them to pay (there&#x27;s truly no way to know what their intent is - are their lateness predictable or is this the month they&#x27;re going to wait 45 days to pay?). I&#x27;m fine with letting someone else wait for them to pay late.<p>One thing that still seems to be missing from bank cards is the lack of ability to add your own identifier (namely the check number) to the transaction <i>at time of payment</i>. I understand that, for responsible payors, this is why they might prefer paying with checks - you not only get a reference number, a memo line, and a date that makes sense for your own internal system. Even with bank cards, the date of the transaction is sometimes not the date that it actually happened, which can be confusing for record association. Zelle has a memo entry, but the reference identifiers are letters and numbers, ew. An internal auto incrementing number to identify transactions would be really useful.<p>Anyway, hopefully paper checks will be phased out. Although I do still find them useful for interbank account transfers - the Zelle multi-account trick still makes me kind of queasy.
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sneed_chucker超过 1 年前
Honestly, I just hate how insecure and legacy everything involving banking in this country is.<p>For example, payroll - there&#x27;s literally no reason your employer needs to store your account and routing number as another piece of your personal info that they can lose when some hacker finds out their MySQL admin password is &quot;admin&quot;<p>Like, the system should be that you give your employer your banks name, plus a UUID associated with your account that allows entitys to deposit but not withdraw funds for you account. It would be trivial to implement and make things much more secure, but instead we&#x27;re stuck with the account+routing number system that&#x27;s basically paper checks but put on a computer.
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reaperducer超过 1 年前
The longer you live, and the more things you do, the more you realize that checks are still alive and well. You still need checks for:<p><pre><code> Charitable donations - Many charities maximize every penny, and electronic contributions eat into that. Paying my accountant - Good accountants make every penny count, and aren&#x27;t interested in tithing from their revenue to credit card companies. Tipping the paper boy Tipping the doorman (Though recently, I&#x27;ve switched to cash for this, as it looks better in a Christmas card) Business license renewal in certain cities Some of my recent real estate transactions have required checks to be written to various local authorities, county clerks, etc. Making IRS payments without a fee Paying the gas bill. My gas company charges $5+ to pay by credit or debit card. Paying the rent. My building&#x27;s management company charges $20 + a percentage to pay by debit card, or $50 + a percentage to pay by credit card. If I pay my bill with a check, there&#x27;s no surcharge. If I pay by credit card, I have to pay another $113. Paying the electric bill. The electric company charges $5+ to pay by credit or debit card. Passport renewal fee. Renewing a passport by mail in the United States *requires* a check or a money order.</code></pre>
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Scubabear68超过 1 年前
This started out as a good narrative on the history of checks, but quickly devolved into a political rant about poor people being victims of banks, and no real criminals write bad checks.<p>The first is true, but the second is not. Check fraud was a very big deal for years for criminals. I don’t know if it is anymore given the progress in electronic payments.
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ChrisMarshallNY超过 1 年前
I remember watching a show, which said that the Knights Templar actually ran one of the oldest banks, and &quot;checks,&quot; were scripts that they wrote in France (or wherever the Crusader started from), to be delivered in Jerusalem, so the Crusader could get his money, there.
pseingatl超过 1 年前
Amazing to me that he could write this history and not once refer to the golden status of &quot;holder in due course.&quot;