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Jobs you're applying to might not be real

234 点作者 clockworksoul超过 1 年前

38 条评论

pflenker超过 1 年前
This is the appropriate place to share the following anecdote, which happened to a friend of mine (disclaimer - in the context of this comment and how I wrote it I assume you will immediately notice the red flags, but I assure you these are only obvious in hindsight)<p>My friend applied for, and got hired as, an external tester. The idea is: you get a web page and a task (e.g. order item xyz), you perform the task and you fill out a usability report, for example explaining which things you found obvious or where you ran into issues. The gig went fine for a week or two with dozens of assignments per day for all kinds of things. Then one of the tasks included opening a bank account at Bank X. This went fine without an issue, and my friend had to use personal data to open that account. She didn’t think any of it - at this point the trust level was high and after all she was supposed to test from an end users perspective, so it kind of made sense to her.<p>Way later she was asked to apply for a loan, and she did. Of course she did not provide any personal details, but the data the company provided to her - but given how much time had passed she didn’t realize that these data were from the bank account she had opened in her own name. The money arrived, the attackers took it and vanished.<p>As far as I can tell the scam was set up in a very sophisticated way, faking not only the job but the whole company, with the clear idea that only luring in one innocent person would be enough. And they succeeded.<p>The worst thing besides the financial damage is the shame that comes with it, the „I can’t believe this happened to me“ moment - which is why I share this here: scams can happen to anybody, including your friends who „should know better“, including you.
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ageitgey超过 1 年前
While the article is about companies who post job options that aren&#x27;t actively being hired, there&#x27;s another worse issue going on with actually 100% fake job listings.<p>Right now, there is a big issue with fraudsters pretending to be real companies and posting fake job listings in their names with fake contact info. Some job boards make this way easier than it should be. The &quot;employee&quot; responds and even goes through &quot;interviews&quot; with a fraudster, only to be asked for banking information or ask to pay fees or something like that. Then the fraudster disappears, leaving the &quot;employee&quot; thinking that the real company cheated them. The real company wasn&#x27;t involved at all.<p>Be careful out there if you are looking for a job. This is a very common scam right now. Verify contact information with the actual website of the company, not from a job posting.
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angarg12超过 1 年前
I don&#x27;t know about fake jobs, but as a ML Engineer looking, my experience has been appalling, despite all the AI&#x2F;ML hype. I&#x27;m tempted to write a blog post about it, but the highlights are:<p>* More than half of recruiters ghosted me at different stages of the process.<p>* Many companies are unreasonably strict with their requirements, asking for x years of experience in their exact tech stack as a deal breaker.<p>* Pay is much lower than my current company even for more senior roles.<p>* Some positions are just ridiculous. One of them asked for a ML Engineer with experience in React to maintain a website. Another was completely unable to answer what their business do or what the responsibilities of the role are.<p>Overall a far cry of the narrative of ML Engineers fending off recruiters who throw wads of cash trying to recruit them.
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Arisaka1超过 1 年前
I&#x27;ve been unemployed for the last 5 months and finally managed out of sheer luck to land a gig that sounded sweet on the outside but it&#x27;s hell in the inside, and I really need the money. But I digress.<p>My experience with job search (Europe) has been full of companies calling me for an HR screener that will promptly inform me that they&#x27;re on a hiring freeze. Some of them did it at the start of our discussion, some deferred it until the very end.<p>Not only did this affected my psychology but also my prep. At first, I would reach out to people working at the companies I had an interview with, get the inside scoop. I&#x27;d get positive impressions from their engineers, some friendlier than others. All good. Then, as time went on I started singing &quot;let it go&quot; and gave up on reaching out and researching entirely, or I&#x27;d half-assed it because everything suddenly sounded too good to be true.<p>Last but not least, you can tell which companies do that if you follow their Linkedin career page and notice that their job ads receive less applicants over time. It&#x27;s almost as if people receive it via word of mouth, that or everyone interested is tired of it. But I know a guy who got the door and still ensures that he&#x27;ll like and share everything they post on Linkedin, in spite of the fact that he&#x27;s so good that he got offers from Apple and Microsoft before he even graduated, but turned them down for personal reasons.<p>That is why I stick to the hell that managed to crack a door slightly open to be hired. If people like him have issues, there&#x27;s a downturn, and companies can afford to play talented candidates like a fiddle who would even hire my 40-year old junior-mid ass to do backend?
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reactordev超过 1 年前
The issue I have with this is that humans are not resources like businesses want to think they are. They are living beings with, gasp, memory. If I applied to a job I thought I was a great fit for, got a call with an initial recruiter, only to be ghosted - I&#x27;m going to remember that when they call 6-12mo later. By then I&#x27;d have already found a new gig with something tangible and have already ramped up on it, I&#x27;m no longer in the pool.<p>Likewise for folks who are employed but looking. They&#x27;ll keep searching until they land their exit. Again, by then it&#x27;s too late and they are no longer in the pool.<p>If you go fishing when the fish aren&#x27;t biting, you won&#x27;t catch anything.<p>If you go fishing when they are, you&#x27;ll catch as much as you can carry.
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justanorherhack超过 1 年前
Another thing I&#x27;ve run into is fake postings to fulfill h1b requirements. I don&#x27;t fully understand the requirements but sometimrs companies have to have attempted to fill a role for a year before they can bring in somebody else.<p>I interviewed with a Company recently that was American based but 90% of management and staff as far as I could tell were Indian. The hr rep on the opening screen call was overly hostile and skeptical. It was clear he hadn&#x27;t actually read my resume until the meeting and then proceed to try to poke holes in my resume. Made subtlety rude comments throughout the whole thing. It felt like I was being provoked or neged.<p>I think outside of glass door reviews there is little to no accountability for companies during this process.<p>I started recording (single party state) all my interviews with monosnap and automatic call recording via ringcentral. I&#x27;ve been thinking of making a blog post with a highlights reel.
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kqr超过 1 年前
An explanation that isn&#x27;t brought up by the article is plain mismanagement.<p>I briefly ran a platform&#x2F;SRE team that desperately needed another hire to keep up with the constant stream of interrupting demands from the rest of the organisation while simultaneously being able to dig its way out of the bad conditions that lead to constant interruptions in the first place.<p>Everyone I talked to in the company (including the interim CTO, finance, and HR) agreed this was a good idea and I had a solid plan for how to do it. I put out all the feelers, wrote kick-ass job ads, got many applications, interviewed some and sent short initial tests to some. Did more in-depth interviews with a few.<p>Then when it came to discussing concrete relocation plans, benefits, etc. with HR, <i>I</i> got ghosted – <i>by my own HR department</i>! When they finally sat down with me, it was to explain that no, we cannot hire $applicant_category because $bullshit_reason. &quot;But if you find someone within the smaller category we can allow, go ahead!&quot;<p>So that narrowed down the field and I almost had to start over entirely. And then the same thing happened again! They always found a reason not to hire whatever great person I had discovered. I think in the end – months later – they admitted they didn&#x27;t want to hire for that position anyway and took down the job ad from the company site. By that point I had realised what a weird place that organisation was and started leaving it.
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SN76477超过 1 年前
I&#x27;ve searched for months (project manager LFG)<p>Job seekers are facing a broken, emergent system.<p>The combination of fake listings, ghosting, and generic emails that provide no feedback seems almost designed to hold them back. There are a few tricks to learn, but without insider knowledge, they may remain undiscovered.<p>I spend over 20 hours a week searching, tailoring my resume, and submitting applications, only to receive minimal responses. This is demoralizing, not to mention the stress from diminished income.
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tharmas超过 1 年前
And politically its the classic excuse: &quot;so many jobs we can&#x27;t fill, therefore we need more immigration&quot;.<p>Immigration is to keep the wages down. There is no shortage of workers. Its a lie.
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briffle超过 1 年前
&gt; Once upon a time, a posting that’s been open for a while might be a red flag. Now, Salemi encourages job seekers to apply anyway. If you do get an interview, ask about the company’s hiring timeline.<p>Of course, that only works if you value your time at $0&#x2F;hour. Applying for jobs for all the different sites, formats, cover letters, requirements, etc, is hard work. And the sites that upload your resume, then ask you to basically type it all back in as part of the application process can all go to hell..
dentemple超过 1 年前
As a current job seeker, this certainly _feels_ right. But how true is it in actuality? Is anyone able to confirm or deny this practice (at least anecdotally) for companies they&#x27;ve been at?
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John23832超过 1 年前
I&#x27;ll also say linkedin jobs is basically unusable.<p>It&#x27;s filled with pages of &quot;Promoted&quot; jobs with 100&#x27;s of applicants. I&#x27;m sure most are still filled, or being filled with the list they already have. If you&#x27;re a current job searcher (which I&#x27;m currently not thank god), you can&#x27;t make progress. These jobs never get back to you if you apply.
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nunez超过 1 年前
Indeed. Fake job listings are extremely pervasive and are created for tons of reasons, like:<p>- H1B recruiting<p>- Legal&#x2F;government requirement<p>- Corporate requirement<p>- Headcount justification, and more.<p>This is why &quot;applying&quot; by talking to recruiters and hiring managers directly and having them guide you through the application process is significantly more efficient.
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qwertyuiop_超过 1 年前
The solution to this is a simple state level regulation that any job posted have a unique ID, an expiry date and disposition reason. And make quarterly disposition reports available to the state. Boom !
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caseysoftware超过 1 年前
Oh man. &quot;Ghost jobs&quot; are 100% real.<p>I interviewed dozens of candidates for a couple roles last year that ended up not being real. Once I finally realized it, I was pissed. Not only was I wasting my time but we were wasting <i>their</i> time and burning my credibility.<p>I remember looking at an event last year where I&#x27;d interviewed 20% of the presenters. :(
comprev超过 1 年前
There are adverts for jobs and interviews rounds done to simply tick the box they have &quot;attempted recruitment outside the company&quot;.<p>This happened to me.<p>To start the ball rolling I had to unofficially accept a job which did not yet exist. Once they had interviewed a few external candidates they offered me the role without any interview. Only thing I had to do was &quot;apply&quot; to the job via intranet.<p>Only ever happened to me once though and genuinely felt guilty about the other candidates.
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w10-1超过 1 年前
The main driver is not HR wanting a back-up&#x27;s or the company mollifying investors but a reduction in the power of mid-level managers.<p>Before, headcount was basically owned by the manager, and s&#x2F;he filled positions to maintain their headcount.<p>Now, headcount is always provisional, and typically discouraged. Managers protect themselves by reducing their headcount through attrition. So actually hiring takes sustained effort by a strong manager. The bar is very high because businesses know that hiring one person costs $millions over the typical employee lifecycle.
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aleph_minus_one超过 1 年前
&gt; But the most common type of ghost job is talent hoarding.<p>&gt; “You keep postings out there. You collect a large pool of resumes. You may, in fact, make contact with candidates and interview them, just so you have a large pool of talent,” said Kaplan. “But you don’t plan on actually filling the job anytime soon or hiring.” [...]<p>&gt; “It gives you a pool that you can very quickly ramp back up,” said Kaplan.<p>In my opinion this talent hoarding does not make any sense: if you reject a (talented) candidate, he will in all likelihood look for a job somewhere else. Thus when the economy grows again, the respective candidate will likely not available anymore for hiring, because he surely has a job elsewhere (except you are willing to pay an insane salary that is much larger than the candidate&#x27;s current salary).
ebfe1超过 1 年前
Sad to see so many people getting scam these days, One of the idea I have and wish someone could take the time to implement is a self-registering platform where you can declare your information was previously stolen and used in a scam - The system will hash this information in multiple way, without storing them, such that, banks, financial institutions, or even mobilephone providers (think sim swap attack) can submit some users information and said system would come back with a result based on some matching of hashes(eg first name, dob, address or last name, dob, social security number). Ideally, it would result in the banks doing more vigorous check on user&#x27;s identity like actually seeing them in person if this check fails rather than taking everything submitted over some web-form as is.<p>I have had family member who had their identity stolen for many years and it kept on going, it&#x27;s super frustrating.
ShadowBanThis01超过 1 年前
People need to recognize that wasting your time is STEALING. No matter how it&#x27;s done. And they need to respond accordingly.
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scanr超过 1 年前
I’m surprised that this “talent hoarding” approach happens. I’d love to hear from someone who works at a company that does it.<p>My experience in tech has been that to hire a good employee is expensive. Consuming time from recruiters, HR and hiring managers.<p>Companies that I’ve worked at that don’t currently require people often lay off the recruiters and HR folk as they scale down hiring.
greendestiny_re超过 1 年前
As someone who&#x27;s been on Upwork as a freelancer for 10 years, I&#x27;m glad to be ahead of the curve.<p>Clients can still post job openings where they hire nobody but their hiring stats are visible and I can filter out &quot;0 hires&quot; ones. I can only imagine how much healthier the job market would be if employers had to do the same.
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alakep超过 1 年前
I’ll admit that my company posts jobs to show strength to customers, partners, and competitors despite not actively hiring.<p>My rationale is that if people actually cared enough to reach out to me personally (we are tiny startup) I would respond honestly.<p>And yes, if the perfect person came around I would hire them on the spot.
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danjac超过 1 年前
Job postings are mostly just fraudulent, out-of-date, or oddly over-specific and generally a waste of time for applicants who don&#x27;t have an insider track through their network or a recruiter.<p>Yes I hear &quot;apply anyway, nobody meets 100% of the requirements!&quot; but unless there happens to be a developer shortage in that area we all know this is horseshit. Unless you have the insider track you are more likely than not to just end up in the reject pile. It doesn&#x27;t matter how skilled you think you are, your resume won&#x27;t even get looked at. Plus, if everyone just applies for everything, it compounds the problem: a company has hundreds or thousands of applicants without any means to know which are genuine or not.<p>Perhaps we should collectively give up on job postings and treat them with the contempt they deserve. Maybe a better approach - other than using your network, assuming you have one - is to put your resume up on your own site or blog and use some SEO for visibility, or maybe we should pool resources to create a simple &quot;hire me&quot; site that recruiters can quickly find people (something better than the awfulness of Linkedin anyway).
charlieyu1超过 1 年前
Glad or sad to see I’m not alone. The only job I got last year was through a platform where both sides need to pay. At least there are less people screwing around
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t-3超过 1 年前
Yeah, it&#x27;s well-known that people will fill out <i>anything</i> if they&#x27;re desperate and an &quot;authority figure&quot; (like a potential employer) asks for it. Nobody expects to get a reply from an online job advertisement, so silently collecting information this way works, but the same format is also used for recruiting (both knowing and unknowing) middlemen for money laundering and various fraud schemes.
c_o_n_v_e_x超过 1 年前
Over the past year or so, I’ve seen job ads on LinkedIn that have salaries well above market for specific roles. The same company is always listing different types roles (CTO, PM, etc). Definitely feels like a honeypot to harvest applicant data.
arwhatever超过 1 年前
If one were in charge of feature design at a prominent job posting website, how would you brainstorm to detect ghost job listings, even if only probabilistically?
red-iron-pine超过 1 年前
got an old college roommate in HR, now a VP of HR.<p>we were talking about this a decade ago (he wasnt a VP then). his team would throw out fake adverts and see what bites. how many hits, and how qualified.<p>their ATS allowed for fields like expected salary, so they could take the temperature of the market and see how many hits, and for how much $$$, they&#x27;d get for any particular job.<p>No scams, just no response. Presumably they purged the PII at some point.
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SMAAART超过 1 年前
I have a question for head hunters: when there&#x27;s a job post that says &quot;COMPANY CONFIDENTIAL&quot; and nothing else, is this really a confidential search or something else?<p>TIA
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Roark66超过 1 年前
No shit and water is wet too.<p>I thought this is common knowledge recruiters did that since there was recruiting. Of course they will, why? Because one of the jobs recruiters might do is cold calling, or otherwise contacting companies that are not working with them yet. The conversation usually goes something like this &quot;what positions are you having trouble filling? Oh, really? I have 30 high quality candidates on file that are looking for that position today. I can send it to you in an hour if your company signs a contract with me&#x2F;us.&quot;<p>And they do, how? They&#x27;ll invent jobs and advertise them. Usually they&#x27;ll not even contact anyone that&#x27;s applied. Then depending on level of integrity of a given recruiter they might just ring&#x2F;contact the candidate when they really have a position to apply them to (that&#x27;s fine in my book) or much worse they&#x27;ll just &quot;tweak the cv&quot; and apply. They might justify it to themselves as &quot;I&#x27;m not expecting these 20 people to get the job, I&#x27;m just padding the resume of my star 21st candidate I did talk to&quot; etc.<p>Sadly this practice impacts everyone especially candidates. Imagine you get &quot;ghost&quot; applied like this to a position and you really apply directly or through another honest recruiter. The company will not touch you at all, because they&#x27;d have to pay twice the recruitment fees. Or imagine instead of just deleting stuff that&#x27;s irrelevant the other recruiter decided to &quot;spruce up&quot;, your CV? Now it&#x27;s look like you&#x27;re lying to your prospective employer...<p>I&#x27;m not here to demonise recruiters. A huge majority of these I worked with during my over 2 decades of work have been honest, but dishonesty exists in some industries to such extent many recruiters I worked with in the UK for example wanted me to sign on paper they are my chosen recruiter exclusively for this position (protecting themselves from another recruiter posting my CV without my knowledge and contesting the fees).
barrenko超过 1 年前
Fake jobs are non-obviously fake, but the bigger issue is the &quot;real&quot; jobs that are non-obviously fake.
RecycledEle超过 1 年前
If lying on a resume is fraud, then lying in a want ad is fraud.
cute_boi超过 1 年前
This practice should have been illegal.
archsurface超过 1 年前
This has been going on for decades.
NoZebra120vClip超过 1 年前
When I had my first round of Vocational Rehab around 2013, I was paired with an expert coach from a specialty agency. We arranged a series of meetings at a coffeehouse; she was able to counsel me on the search, application and interview process, we honed my résumé, and she guided me through the whole process until I secured employment.<p>One thing that distressed me at the outset was that the front page of her handout packet was an exhaustive list of job aggregator boards. I was sort of intimidated, like she wanted me to sign up for accounts on all these, fill out profiles, upload résumé, and just sort of roll the dice? That was a lot of privacy invasion for diminishing returns. I had hoped that an expert job coach would be able to help me target desirable employers more accurately.<p>One thing I&#x27;ve learned about job aggregator boards: they should only be used as a guide. Once you find a job on there, you go back to the original employer&#x27;s job board and you find the job listing in its pristine form. You can apply direct there without bothering the whole &quot;job board&quot; process. It&#x27;s really effective, because nine times out of ten, you&#x27;ll find that the position has been withdrawn or modified and the &quot;job board&quot; version of that listing is a zombie.<p>Also if you&#x27;re looking for contract or short-term professional employment, it can be effective to go through an agency. There are reputable agencies and there are fly-by-nights. I found that the best ones had physical office presence near me, and I could go in and be seen by a real person. Some even had qualification testing right on-site. Some of them were really busy with pavement-pounders and some were sleepy little offices with an empty waiting room. The thing about agencies is, they won&#x27;t be able to disclose stuff until you consent and move forward. You won&#x27;t know who their client is, or the pay rates or the site location, until you really need to know and you&#x27;re approved by all parties. So it can be difficult when they&#x27;re holding all the cards. It takes a little faith and trust that your agency&#x2F;recruiter knows your background well, and can reliably negotiate a really good match.<p>In fact I did land my current job in the midst of the pandemic lockdowns by way of LinkedIn &quot;1-click applications&quot;. I am still not sure that I directly applied to this company, but I think they found my résumé&#x2F;profile on LinkedIn, and cold-called me. So glad they did!<p>95% of your job hunt is about networking. If you have a connection and an introduction, don&#x27;t bother slogging through job boards as another fish in the pond. Find someone who knows someone. Develop your personal brand and put yourself out there. Don&#x27;t chase ghost jobs but get good at ATS forms, and use those direct-to-employer corporate &quot;Careers&quot; websites as stepping stones. You&#x27;ll get noticed!
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skeptrune超过 1 年前
this is a ghost article<p>zero actual substance
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Log_out_超过 1 年前
Could auto filter those via internet. Archive?