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Feynman: I am burned out and I'll never accomplish anything (1985)

466 点作者 ent101超过 1 年前

38 条评论

tnecniv超过 1 年前
As a researcher, I’ve felt largely the same way lately. It’s been hard for me to even wrap up a project I was so excited about when I started it that I missed sleep because I was that engaged. Unfortunately, I don’t have a cozy tenure position at a major research institution to ride out the burnout until I feel inspired again. I’m just a lowly postdoc.<p>I’ve thought about leaving the research life for a regular job, but it’s not obvious to me that would help. First, there’s not really other jobs I’d rather do. Second, the burnout has penetrated so many facets of my life (various hobbies, etc.) I’m not sure if it even is burnout or a deeper issue.<p>Therapy and medication has only been marginally helpful. I’m really not sure what to do at this point.
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primitivesuave超过 1 年前
I was severely burned out two years ago after I left the last startup I cofounded. I had a good bit of cash saved up, so I traveled around the world to get better at rock climbing. I could barely write more than a few lines of code before closing my laptop. I would rather sit on the beach and stare at the waves than do anything productive back then.<p>When I got home from my trip around the world, I struggled to build anything meaningful - I&#x27;d get intensely bored after starting a new project, and move on to something else. The first project that I took to completion was reprogramming my Lifx smart bulbs. There was a noticeable delay between turning a light on&#x2F;off in the iOS app, and the light actually changing its state. Sometimes the app and lightbulb would get their states out of sync, and I didn&#x27;t like the idea of some light bulb company knowing my schedule. Even for first-world problems though, it was hardly worth solving.<p>I discovered there is a binary protocol to control the lights directly over the local network, so I developed an extensive TypeScript library to control the lights and build custom web interfaces to serve as light switches. I found a guy on the Lifx forums who built his own crude solution with Python scripts, and he became my first consulting client. That client&#x27;s referral led me to a variety of interesting work opportunities over the past year. Noticing similarities across a variety of these projects led me to start a new company a few months ago to build a product to address them.<p>My point being, sometimes you just have to sit down and play.
hathawsh超过 1 年前
While this passage is inspiring, it boils down to:<p><pre><code> 1. Get good at something 2. Get paid for doing it 3. Get burned out by doing it 4. Return to the fun way of doing it 5. ??? 6. Win a Nobel prize or similar </code></pre> How repeatable is that pattern? Is that one of the patterns we want to teach the next generation? Serious question. I don&#x27;t know the answer. Feynman is obviously rather exceptional. Should we encourage people to follow a path like his?
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vasco超过 1 年前
I&#x27;m not a mental health connoisseur or anything, but removing your own pressure to perform seems like good advice regardless of your circumstances. If you&#x27;re tired or stressed or whatever, labeling yourself as &quot;a burned out person&quot; seems to me like the only good thing it does is add more pressure. Because how can you do well if you&#x27;re &quot;damaged&quot; in some way?<p>It&#x27;s important to not just do old style sweep it under the rug when it&#x27;s serious, but I do think the current zeitgeist over indexes on being a good person equating to being hyper aware of all your struggles and anxieties and so on, and I don&#x27;t see how all that extra pressure will help, specially for young people. Most times &quot;it&#x27;s not that big of a deal&quot; is really the best thing I can tell myself. That being said, asking for help from someone that knows what they are talking about also seems like a good idea, if you can&#x27;t overcome it on your own. The universe doesn&#x27;t give you any extra points for doing it alone.
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RationalDino超过 1 年前
Based on his biographies, I think that Feynman had ADHD. He never demonstrated an ability to do things because he thought he should do them. And, as this story shows, trying just resulted in a demotivated and unproductive Feynman. On the other hand he accomplished great results when pulled by desire. Especially in the form of play.<p><i>Surely You Must Be Joking</i> does a great job of showing how he kept coming back to play throughout his life. Everything from lock picking at Los Alamos, to playing the bongo drums.<p><i>What Do You Care What Other People Think</i> has an extended description of the creation of Appendix F about the shuttle disaster. See <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;history.nasa.gov&#x2F;rogersrep&#x2F;v2appf.htm" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;history.nasa.gov&#x2F;rogersrep&#x2F;v2appf.htm</a> for that. As someone who has been in the state, it is clear that he was in a state of hyperfocus. I&#x27;ve never matched what Feynman could do, but it comes as no surprise to me that he&#x27;d realize that he could get away with learning about a topic others didn&#x27;t want him to learn, because he could do so quickly enough that they wouldn&#x27;t believe that he&#x27;d possibly have learned it.<p>I highly recommend both books, Appendix F, and of course, <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;calteches.library.caltech.edu&#x2F;51&#x2F;2&#x2F;CargoCult.htm" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;calteches.library.caltech.edu&#x2F;51&#x2F;2&#x2F;CargoCult.htm</a>. (If psychologists had followed up what he said 50 years ago, the Replication Crisis would have been discovered 40 years earlier than it was. Oh well, missed opportunities.)
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dartos超过 1 年前
What an inspiring passage.<p>I’ve been feeling the exact same way about software lately.<p>It’s just no fun anymore. I should do something pointless like making a wayland compositor for myself or something.
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mikrl超过 1 年前
I’ve had an ‘instrumental’ mindset for as long as I can remember. Almost my entire life after being a kid.<p>&gt;I need to do this because I need to know that to pass my exams, get a good job to… etc<p>I feel for a lot of 30 and under people today it’s the same. I managed to capture the ‘playing around’ feeling very fleetingly earlier in my 20s but it doesn’t last long before some little productivity demon starts gnawing at you.<p>Even resting has its purpose: mentally recharge to work more, let muscles repair themselves to lift more.
juris超过 1 年前
The other day I had remarked to an old gal (the proprietor) of a local strip mall toy store that I walked into on a whim that &quot;really this is where it all started&quot;. Round hole, square block diagonally (almost anyway); oh that can&#x27;s label so perfectly lines up with the tiling of this table when it&#x27;s rolled across it; oh that soap dispenser pump has the -same threading- as this vodka bottle and screws on just easy...and so on. It would turn out that that old gal wrote a bunch of code for some local military contractors waaay back when and had quite the reputation for connecting the unlikeliest of systems together. The corporate types would naysay whether a thing could be done, and she&#x27;d have it back on their desk within 3 hours. And now she runs a toy store, and loves it!!! Feeling burned out myself, I took from that conversation some modicum of hope that looking at problems as &#x2F;&#x2F;play&#x2F;&#x2F; is what I need personally-- and prospects look better for it! Happy to hear that Feynman would agree.
MPSimmons超过 1 年前
The entire &#x27;Surely You&#x27;re Joking, Mr Feynman&#x27; book is just an incredible read.
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dang超过 1 年前
Related:<p><i>Feynman&#x27;s Nobel Ambition</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=31236758">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=31236758</a> - May 2022 (1 comment)<p><i>Feynman: I am burned out and I&#x27;ll never accomplish anything (1985)</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=26931359">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=26931359</a> - April 2021 (276 comments)<p><i>Feynman: I am burned out and I&#x27;ll never accomplish anything</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=10585890">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=10585890</a> - Nov 2015 (22 comments)<p><i>Feynman: I am burned out and I&#x27;ll never accomplish anything</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=3874875">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=3874875</a> - April 2012 (66 comments)
juancn超过 1 年前
It&#x27;s the quintessential hard problem solving strategy.<p>It works on many hard disciplines, and it boils down to two steps:<p>1- Obsess<p>2- Let Go<p>Step two is the hardest one, but it&#x27;s the most fruitful one and you really have to let go, no cheating.<p>Once you do, for some reason your mind will use everything from step one in the background to find the solution, in a weird moment, in an effortless manner.<p>But if you don&#x27;t let go, it will never happen.
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amiga386超过 1 年前
I can just imagine this in his voice (e.g. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=nYg6jzotiAc" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=nYg6jzotiAc</a>)<p>Feynman is my favourite physicist. Of course you could pick someone else, you could argue about the relative importance of each person&#x27;s contribution to scientific knowledge, but it was his aimiability, playfulness and curiousity, combined with the fact that he _did_ break new frontiers in quantum physics that make him so inspiring for me. His famed series of lectures at Caltech were a great introduction to physics.<p>I was hoping to see more of his time at Los Alamos in the <i>Oppenheimer</i> biopic, but he doesn&#x27;t even seem to be in it. There&#x27;s supposedly someone playing him, but I don&#x27;t see it; I assume the two-second silent shot of someone from behind playing the bongos was meant to be him.
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csours超过 1 年前
I think this is an indication of the difference between the start of project and maintenance of a product.<p>At the start, you can imagine all the cool things it does, once it&#x27;s working you have to keep it working in the real world.
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goethes_kind超过 1 年前
Interesting anecdote. But I don&#x27;t envy Fenyman. I would rather be like the guys I know you can just sit down and get to work conscientiously without any such intrusive thoughts whatsoever. Those guys have a superpower they don&#x27;t appreciate.
skadamat超过 1 年前
Jonathan Blow has a great talk on long projects (The Witness was like 8 years in development?) here which I watch once in a while: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=d0m0jIzJfiQ" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=d0m0jIzJfiQ</a><p>Some highlights:<p>- He takes a week long vacation every now and then to hack on a completely different game idea for fun, with the focus on it being short and fun<p>- Time for relaxation and unstructured thinking<p>- Walks &#x2F; showers can produce amazing ideas
chankstein38超过 1 年前
This is me with writing code. I do it professionally and have for almost 15 years. I&#x27;m so burnt out on the day to day, forced work. But show me something interesting or hackable, a game I like that I can mod, a cool script, a cool concept that might make a neat image or sound. Whatever it might be, suddenly I&#x27;m playing again and having fun, burnout or not.<p>Just wish I could find a way to make that my paycheck...
cs702超过 1 年前
A classic. Any and all administrators tasked with evaluating research-funding proposals should be <i>required to read this short passage</i> before making any funding decisions, so they can be reminded that groundbreaking research is driven mainly by <i>intellectual curiosity</i>, not by metrics that seek to quantify &quot;relevance&quot; or &quot;importance.&quot;
systems_glitch超过 1 年前
I feel like Bell Labs was the biggest loss of &quot;play at it, see if something important comes out&quot; possible. Never worked there, but a lot of friends did, from the 50s thru the Lucent transition right up to the end.
ryandv超过 1 年前
The pandemic burned me out pretty hard after a lifelong obsession with computers, tinkering around with technology back when it was more of a hobby than a commercial pursuit. It was nice to be able to parley my passion into a career, but contact with the world of business tends to corrupt what I always viewed as a form of play and artistic expression.<p>I like simple technologies like IRC. You don&#x27;t need K8s clusters or deployment pipelines. String together everything with a smattering of bash because nothing is really at stake. It&#x27;s easy to get started since the tech is as simple as it gets, and there&#x27;s nothing actually on the line. You can practice using obscure languages never seen in industry. Do things because they make you laugh, not to build a portfolio or a product. At the least, I can still crank out a modest amount of code and actually enjoy the process, without tearing my hair out over whatever asinine enterprise-scale clusterfuck needs to be untangled now.<p>Still waiting for whatever is next.
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BubbleRings超过 1 年前
For a really cool video from the International Space Station about a phenomenon related to the spinning plate stuff, see here:<p>Dancing T-handle in zero-g, HD<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=1n-HMSCDYtM" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=1n-HMSCDYtM</a>
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kromem超过 1 年前
I used to include a bit about it into most of my presentations, and I recommend everyone read up on the over-justification effect.<p>One of the least widely known psychological effects relative to its impact on people&#x27;s lives.<p>A nefarious little bugger that&#x27;s hard to evade too.
smugglerFlynn超过 1 年前
There is a highly relevant and resent research on the state of play, nicely summarised on Huberman Lab Podcast: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=BwyZIWeBpRw" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=BwyZIWeBpRw</a>
sirsinsalot超过 1 年前
I&#x27;m so burned out that the idea of even sitting at a desk with a screen in front of it, never mind coding or thinking or doing anything worthwhile, makes me feel sick to the stomach.<p>I&#x27;ll always love coding. Stress can kill anything.
edu_do_cerrado超过 1 年前
Very inspiring passage. I had this feeling of playing around with stuff (Programming in my case) in the beginning of my studies, but it faded away over time because of work. Even though I work in a wonderful project, I feel burned out a lot nowadays. Might lookout for that initial feeling again now, I probably won&#x27;t achieve as much as Feynman, but I hope that removing the pressure and enjoying what I&#x27;m doing might be good for mental health
max_超过 1 年前
There is a Richard Feynman documentary I saw where he talked about his darkest episode of depression (another depression episode).<p>It was after them testing one of the Atomic bombs when it had been developed.<p>He described it as follows, he would for example watch see someone building a bridge or doing maintainance, and he would think to himself, &quot;Why is he doing this? Doesn&#x27;t he know that he is wasting his time, that all this work he is doing is useless?&quot;
zackmorris超过 1 年前
Macro-scale example of magnetic locking by a spinning magnet analogous to bound states in subatomic particles:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=V5FyFvgxUhE" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=V5FyFvgxUhE</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Bound_state" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Bound_state</a><p>It reminds me of Feynman&#x27;s wobble in the article. Which may relate to spin 1&#x2F;2 particles and&#x2F;or radioactive decay.<p>The strong force is empirically measured and I have yet to find a satisfactory explanation of its fundamental mechanism. But nucleons moving near the speed of light are held inside the nucleus by a force of several pounds! So the nuclear force acts like a gravity well but comes from electroweak effects somehow. Loosely that means that there&#x27;s a centripetal force so strong that if we measure it over years, the odds of seeing a stable nucleus often approach or meet 100%.<p>I only bring this up because currently there&#x27;s no way to modulate decay, electron capture, fission or fusion via simple means like temperature or charge. Ideally we should be able to add&#x2F;remove electromagnetic energy and transmute elements by generating electron&#x2F;positron pairs from photons (for example). Until we really understand how the strong force works, all the cool sci fi and Iron Man stuff will be confined to research labs.<p>I&#x27;ve spent my whole life working to make rent instead of working on important problems. What a waste for society to invest education dollars in me so I could subsist on what is largely custodial work. So I think the most important thing we can manifest is getting more leisure time, money and resources into the hands of dreamers.<p>The second most important thing we can do is pay our success forward. So I don&#x27;t want to hear about any more billionaires and their pet projects. I want to see visionary goals, labor-saving devices to reduce suffering, automation, UBI, and most importantly people paying it forward by paying their fair share of taxes into democratic societies and having enough faith in the higher power of love to give the people the dignity and means to solve their problems and self-actualize. I mean, that&#x27;s what the USA used to be until I watched it all fall apart after 9&#x2F;11 to leave us with whatever all this is.
Vicinity9635超过 1 年前
If you haven&#x27;t read &quot;Surely you&#x27;re joking, Mr Feynman&quot; yet you should.<p>Both hilarious and fascinating.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;search.brave.com&#x2F;search?q=%22Surely+you%27re+joking%2C+Mr+Feynman%22&amp;source=desktop" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;search.brave.com&#x2F;search?q=%22Surely+you%27re+joking%...</a>
asadalt超过 1 年前
I have a similar approach to side projects. I have a day job (that is fun btw) and then I spend nights and weekends &quot;playing&quot; with code with no expectations. This has worked well for me and I LOVE this setup!<p>The alternative would be to raise VC and work full-time on a half-baked idea. :cringe:
vehementi超过 1 年前
Kind of a miss on the title. The quote is: &quot;Now that I <i>am</i> burned out and I&#x27;ll never accomplish anything, I&#x27;ve got this nice position...&quot;. The title is slightly taking the quote out of context and isn&#x27;t the title of the article
dshpala超过 1 年前
I remember I used to kick-start myself into flow by doing &quot;useless&quot; things like rearranging code around, doing small renames for consistency, etc.<p>I need to return that that practice, as I find it harder and harder to interest myself in what I&#x27;m doing...
zubairq超过 1 年前
Surely you’re joking Mr Feynman was such an influential book for me! It was so readable and I believe it helped alot of people become interested in science, which was usually portrayed as a very boring topic
danjc超过 1 年前
I see a parallel to short vs long term thinking here that applies to R&amp;D.<p>When quarterly results are the priority, innovation is stifled but what&#x27;s insidious is that this only becomes evident over a long time span.
xdavidliu超过 1 年前
&quot;1985&quot; in the title is misleading. The sentence is an excerpt from a biography published in 1985, describing Feynman&#x27;s experience as a young Assistant Prof at Cornell shortly after WWII.
7thaccount超过 1 年前
It&#x27;s aggravating as there is a lot of value I could provide to my organization if they set me loose and gave me full autonomy. I&#x27;d also be a lot happier. But that is pretty hard to come by.
danielvaughn超过 1 年前
Much of the work I&#x27;m truly proud of, I did when I was playing. It&#x27;s an absolute mystery why I can&#x27;t intentionally put myself into that mindset no matter how hard I try.
giantg2超过 1 年前
I&#x27;d probably get fired for playing around at work. Burnout is just the standard state for most workers in today&#x27;s world. We just have to live with it.
buescher超过 1 年前
Incidentally, the faucet problem is neat! You can solve it with high-school level physics and analytical geometry (&quot;pre-calculus&quot;).
arisAlexis超过 1 年前
Greatest book I&#x27;ve ever read