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Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone

186 点作者 uxcolumbo超过 1 年前

16 条评论

JustLurking2022超过 1 年前
Saw a variation of this during the recent bout of tech layoffs. Shortly before end of year eval time, a senior executive sent out emails questioning whether it was even possible for new hires to have made sufficient impact and suggesting they should consequently be given a poor rating as the default.<p>It&#x27;s amazing that leaders at these companies which, for years, acted as though they had all the answers and were more successful than other industries because they worked smarter. And then, at the first sign of headwinds, they want no accountability for their decisions and can&#x27;t figure out a principles as simple as being honest and treating people fairly.<p>I&#x27;m honestly curious how CloudFlare will handle reference checks for these people, given they are calling these performance based dismissals. Will they say they are &quot;not eligible for rehire&quot; (the HR way of saying they were terminated for cause)? If so, I hope they get sued, as that can tank a person&#x27;s entire career trajectory.
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greatgib超过 1 年前
This video also give us an example of a trend of recent years that is really awful:<p>In very short cycles, going on a hire spree and then redundancies plans without real consequences for the management or companies. Basically it costs them almost nothing to mess with people&#x27;s lives.<p>For example, when doing unreasonable mass hiring, the market goes up, because it is a sign of growth. Then, when firing people in mass, the market value also goes up because it is supposed a sign for short term increased revenue.
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ceuk超过 1 年前
In the UK (and most other places with fairly strong employee protections I imagine) it becomes pretty difficult to get rid of employees once they&#x27;ve been around for a while. Often involving a lengthy &quot;managing out&quot; process.<p>Given this, it&#x27;s common for a 3-6 month &quot;probation period&quot; when starting a new role in which you can be dismissed fairly arbitrarily. This makes sense given the commitment taking on an employee represents IMO.<p>As a result, it&#x27;s very common for people to lose their jobs within a few months of starting. Just as I imagine a lot of relationships end after a rather short period of time or then tend to persist a bit longer. Sometimes it&#x27;s clear things just aren&#x27;t going to work out.<p>She&#x27;s right in that it&#x27;s a bit of a rug pull to get continuously good feedback and then suddenly get terminated. There should ideally <i>never</i> be any surprises. I.e. you&#x27;d always usually tell the employee what will happen if x does&#x2F;doesn&#x27;t happen, get them to agree and then when it pans out that way, no-one is shocked. But like I said.. she&#x27;s been there what, 4 months? Just move on.
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flumpcakes超过 1 年前
The fact her manager wasn&#x27;t on the call and they were not able to say the exact reasons why she was fired, are massive red flags to me.
JazCE超过 1 年前
You can also see a comment from Matthew Prince on this video: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;eastdakota&#x2F;status&#x2F;1745697840180191501?t=rqOo0U1KLIVMNLKcbeTKng" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;eastdakota&#x2F;status&#x2F;1745697840180191501?t=...</a><p>Edit: Also discussed here: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=38969065">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=38969065</a>
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NoImmatureAdHom超过 1 年前
The language really gets me. Maybe (happily) I&#x27;ve been out of corporate America for too long to get it...<p>&quot;...<i>part ways</i> with you...&quot; --&gt; &quot;We&#x27;ve decided to fire you.&quot;<p>&quot;...Rosie might be better to <i>explain the process of who&#x27;s giving this information</i>...&quot; --&gt; &quot;Rosie can talk about why it&#x27;s us vs. your manager.&quot;<p>&quot;...this is a collective <i>calibration</i> for Cloudflare...&quot; --&gt; what the fuck?<p>&quot;...if you can <i>respect that</i>. We can <i>totally respect that</i>...&quot; --&gt; at a loss<p>&quot;...<i>meet the expectations that you&#x27;re communicating to us</i>...&quot; --&gt; &quot;...tell you what you want to know...&quot;<p>&quot;...give you the <i>data that was calibrated</i>...&quot; --&gt; ...how do you calibrate data? FFS.<p>&quot;...extremely <i>traumatizing for people</i>...&quot; --&gt; ha ha ha...goddamn snowflake. You&#x27;re getting fired, it&#x27;s not fun, but it&#x27;s not like watching your buddies get blown up in front of you and waking up in bed screaming for the next forty years.<p>&quot;...I cannot <i>speak to</i> what your manager has <i>communicated to you directly</i>...&quot; --&gt; &quot;I don&#x27;t know what your manager said&quot;<p>&quot;...I <i>hear you</i> and <i>what you&#x27;re saying</i>...&quot; --&gt; &quot;I understand&quot;<p>&quot;...from a <i>process perspective</i>, your questions are valid but this isn&#x27;t going to be the <i>forum and situation</i> where...&quot; --&gt; &quot;We aren&#x27;t going to have that conversation with you now&quot;<p>&quot;...I don&#x27;t think there&#x27;s anything we can say in <i>this moment and today</i>...&quot; --&gt; &quot;Sorry&quot;<p>In particular, what&#x27;s up with the duplication? &quot;this moment &amp; today&quot;, etc.? I hear it from people with a low bureaucratic position a lot. Think firefighter making an announcement, HR drone, etc.
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Solvency超过 1 年前
Here&#x27;s a related question: will this video ultimately help or hinder her career? I&#x27;ve always feared that other companies will look at this sort of thing, regardless of who is &quot;in the right&quot;, and want to distance themselves from a potential rabble rouser who might bring some future emergent attention to them as well.
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junon超过 1 年前
How to lose a longtime cloudflare user in 9 minutes or less. Pulling all my worker setups, I&#x27;ll find something else.
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jmull超过 1 年前
It’s awfully strange, in my experience, that her manager wouldn’t be there.<p>Makes me wonder if he hadn’t been let go too?
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Clubber超过 1 年前
I&#x27;m glad people are finally outing companies that do this. People need to take these actions into consideration when deciding to join companies like Cloudflare.
d3w4s9超过 1 年前
Very strange. If it&#x27;s a layoff, just say it&#x27;s a layoff and follow the standard procedure. It&#x27;s bad but nothing fundamentally wrong if it has to happen. If it&#x27;s about performance, like the article says, the employee should be warned with metrics and other evidence. That&#x27;s why companies like Amazon have procedures like pip to &quot;ensure&quot; a performance related firing has its basis (even though pip is often abused there, whatever, at least in theory that&#x27;s something). I don&#x27;t think this will go well
eweise超过 1 年前
Cloudflare is off my list of potential employers.
Loucra超过 1 年前
1) the saleswoman did not make any sales during her trial period, so she is justifiable fired.<p>2) what she did, recording the meeting without the other part knowladgement is borderline (if not totally) illegal.<p>3) Her actitude was condescending and snobby. Thing that probably justify her situation.<p>4) Uploading this to TikTok is completely unappropriated, and probable professional suicide.<p>5) The way the company assigned a random person to fire her over zoom is definitely not nice, her manager should have done that. Also it looks like the way this company works and she know that during the period she also remotely worked for them.
thinkingemote超过 1 年前
past <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=38963678">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=38963678</a>
bitcharmer超过 1 年前
@dang<p>This is a duplicate of <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=38977794">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=38977794</a>
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1vuio0pswjnm7超过 1 年前
&quot;Please enable JS and disable any ad blocker&quot;<p>Alternatively:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20240113220120if_&#x2F;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.inc.com&#x2F;suzanne-lucas&#x2F;viral-cloudflare-termination-video-masterclass-how-not-terminate.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20240113220120if_&#x2F;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.in...</a>