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Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators

140 点作者 andygcook超过 1 年前

32 条评论

Wowfunhappy超过 1 年前
I am very close to obtaining an elementary school teaching degree (46 of 49 credits completed), and as of this year I am a full time teacher at a private school (which doesn&#x27;t have to care whether I officially have a license). My masters program is considered among the best in the state.<p>Unfortunately, I don&#x27;t have many good things to say about my masters program. The majority of my classes have been <i>interesting</i> but useless in a real classroom. Teaching is just one of those things that you largely learn by doing.<p>Teaching <i>does</i> take a lot of skill and practice—I am surrounded at work by more experienced colleagues, and watching them always leaves me impressed—but I don&#x27;t think it&#x27;s something you can learn from a textbook.<p>Similarly, the licensure exams are just awful, at least in New York. I will leave you with a real practice test question from the official preparation materials. This is for the content knowledge test on &quot;Science and Technology&quot;.<p>----------<p>A construction company is evaluating proposals for the creation of a new playground. They are using the following scale to assess the relevant criteria:<p><pre><code> +--------------+------------------------+ | Scale number | Scale score assessment | +--------------+------------------------+ | 1 | Far below standards | | 2 | Below Standard | | 3 | Meeting standard | | 4 | Exceeding standard | +--------------+------------------------+ </code></pre> Use the chart below to answer the question that follows:<p><pre><code> +----------------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+ | Criteria | Company 1 | Company 2 | Company 3 | Company 4 | +----------------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+ | Safety | 3 | 4 | 3 | 1 | | Quality | 3 | 2 | 3 | 4 | | Creativity | 4 | 3 | 3 | 4 | | Sustainability | 3 | 2 | 2 | 4 | | Utility | 3 | 3 | 4 | 4 | +----------------+-----------+-----------+-----------+-----------+ </code></pre> According to the evaluation detailed in the chart, which company should be awarded the project?<p>----------<p>Ready for the answer? Take a moment to think about it before looking...<p>The answer key says it&#x27;s company four, because they have &quot;the highest overall score. We are not told any information about categories being weighted and therefore we cannot pay special attention to the low safety score.&quot;
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germinalphrase超过 1 年前
As a former high school teacher, I am in favor of reduced requirements to enter the profession; however, I taught in two states that supported these types of on ramps, and they didn’t seem to make a notable impact on applicant numbers (that is, out of the hundreds of educators I worked with over the years, I knew only one who came in via a non-traditional pathway after working in a different field (engineering)).<p>That’s not the question the article is asking, but I’m skeptical that making it easier for professionals to career switch into teaching is going to cause any meaningful number of them to do so.
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billdueber超过 1 年前
Reminder to everyone commenting here: you are not an average student. The hard part of teaching is not coming up with dynamite lessons for kids who are smart and want to learn and are capable of doing so and aren’t hungry. Anyone can do that. Well, almost anyone.<p>Way back in the olden times, 5 to 10% of people went to school, and it worked really well for them. Now everyone goes to school, and it works really well for about 5% of us.
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pard68超过 1 年前
Makes sense to me. I attended public school all my life. Everyone I knew more or less had the same out look on formal education, means to an end, can I just get the spark notes, thanks.<p>In college I interacted with a strange life form called a &quot;homeschooler&quot;. Almost without exception they were smarter, better read, and had a desire to learn. Educating children seems to be far more than degrees, licenses, and CE credits.
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growingkittens超过 1 年前
The long-term impact is much more ambiguous to measure.<p>I paid particular attention in school when a teacher would explain why they were trying to teach us something. I noticed the same patterns of teaching among different teachers in the same school system, and how it all worked together to reinforce the skills we needed. (Note: many of my peers experienced the &quot;extra&quot; work as pointless, because they didn&#x27;t understand the long-term implications).<p>Teachers who don&#x27;t understand educational theory can&#x27;t work as part of an educational system without additional training. In the meantime, their students miss out on long-term skill building.<p>This situation makes me think of technical debt. A short-term fix with long-term, ambiguous problems that are difficult to unravel.
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karaterobot超过 1 年前
Some additional context from TFA, which is actually pretty insightful.<p>&gt; One preliminary explanation from the New Jersey study was that the emergency licensed teachers were working in schools that had a record of helping students make strong academic gains. It’s possible that the schools had supports in place, such as teacher coaching, a strong curriculum or something else that compensated for less training... Another recent study, out of Oakland, California, backs up this theory.<p>&gt; There’s some evidence that teacher licensure tests are mildly accurate predictors of who will be a good educator. All else equal, a school would be better off selecting candidates with a higher test score, especially if they’re going to be teaching math or science. But that general rule would mischaracterize a lot of teachers — some test well but don’t have great classroom management or interpersonal skills, while others may not test well but are effective at working with children.<p>I&#x27;m not an expert, but my impression of modern classrooms is that teachers don&#x27;t have as much leeway to choose what or how they teach, compared to, say 50 years ago. They have a strictly defined curriculum to get through, and they&#x27;re generally spending a lot of their classroom hours teaching to standardized tests. Might the difference in &quot;classroom management&quot; skill, which is evidently untested in teacher licensing, be the most significant thing left that can make one teacher better than another? That is, if we make teachers (essentially) read from the same script, maybe it&#x27;s all in the delivery?<p>And if this is untested in teacher licensing, maybe it&#x27;s somewhat evenly distributed between licensed and unlicensed teachers?
rootusrootus超过 1 年前
Sounds like a good reason to continue the experiment. As long as we continue to insist on paying teachers as little as possible, it makes sense to lower the ridiculous educational requirements just to teach elementary school.
iaw超过 1 年前
I have a family member who was hired as an Emergency teacher over 20 years ago. They&#x27;ve since become fully credentialed, obtained their masters in education, taught masters students, and organized a particular program&#x2F;subject at the district level.<p>Speaking with them, their experience has been the core driver of a successful teacher is primarily whether they want to be there and care about the students success.<p>Of course, when they were first hired they spent all of their free time crafting lessons plans for a subject they basically failed in high school. Studying the textbook and relevant material so they could teach it.
sgnelson超过 1 年前
Those few who are willing to go take a low salary to go deal with all the issues of the modern education system are just as good as those who are willing to go take a low salary and deal with all the issues of the modern education system, but have to jump through a few more hoops. I&#x27;m shocked.<p>Let&#x27;s face it, those who are willing to teach, and are probably leaving decent careers to do so, have a decent chance of being an okay teacher, because they probably have an idea of what they&#x27;re getting into, and are willing to work hard. ie they WANT to be teachers.<p>Of course, if we just paid teachers more, you&#x27;d probably have a higher number of qualified candidates, but that seems like that&#x27;s too hard of a thing to do?
syntaxing超过 1 年前
The school district I went to had a policy that the teachers are required to have a related masters degree in the subject they’re teaching. It was a great school district since the teachers were all formerly non teachers at one point. My social studies teacher was a lawyer before, physics teacher actually published some papers as a physicists. The downside is the property tax ballooned out of control but I got a great education.
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GlibMonkeyDeath超过 1 年前
Here is the study for Massachusetts (saving you several layers of summary articles):<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;wheelockpolicycenter.org&#x2F;wp-content&#x2F;uploads&#x2F;2023&#x2F;11&#x2F;Emergency-License-Y2-Report.pdf" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;wheelockpolicycenter.org&#x2F;wp-content&#x2F;uploads&#x2F;2023&#x2F;11&#x2F;...</a><p>In every category, emergency&#x2F;provisional licensed median values were lower than licensed teachers, including performance evaluations, although these results didn&#x27;t reach 95% statistical significance of rejecting the null hypothesis. Even if they didn&#x27;t reach P &lt; 0.05, when all of the results point in one direction, I am not so sure I would completely agree with the top-level headline as it is stated.
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analog31超过 1 年前
It seems to me that we&#x27;ve already gutted the requirements for a teaching degree -- it&#x27;s one of the easiest college majors. The primary hurdle is surviving the first couple of years in the classroom.
CoastalCoder超过 1 年前
Maybe public education is so broken in the U.S. (e.g., No Child Left Behind) that this issue is just statistical noise in the outcomes?<p>I&#x27;m mostly going on the stories from a teacher relative; I&#x27;m 99% speculating.
aczerepinski超过 1 年前
This is good news for me personally. I&#x27;d like to make money in tech for perhaps 10 more years and then teach music (and comp sci?) in a public high school. I have advanced degrees in music but no education degree. Under current rules I&#x27;d have to stick to teaching at the college level which doesn&#x27;t appeal to me because the degree is a bad financial decision for the students working towards it.
WalterBright超过 1 年前
For humans, being able to teach is an innate capability. After all, we&#x27;ve been able to teach our children for 100,000 years before schools existed.<p>Today, parents routinely teach their kids things like reading and arithmetic.<p>The best teachers I had were professors at university, and they never had a day of teacher training. They simply knew the subject material.<p>What skills a masters degree in education confers is a mystery to me.
hnthrowaway0328超过 1 年前
Licenses are more to protect the interest groups and deflect legal fights.
readthenotes1超过 1 年前
&quot;Because most did not teach tested grades and subjects, the researchers also looked at evaluation ratings. Both groups of teachers received similar marks from their supervisors.&quot;<p>That is, they cannot speak to how effective the teachers were as educators, only how disruptive they were as employees.
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djhope99超过 1 年前
The UK always had a program that allowed you to become a teacher without a degree. It involves a diploma followed by gaining QTLS (Qualified Teacher Learning and Skills) status I believe. Is this not the case in the USA?
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deepsquirrelnet超过 1 年前
For me personally, I learned and performed much better under teachers that I knew had some passion for the subjects they taught. Unfortunately that’s more difficult to measure.
hkt超过 1 年前
Whatever can be measured can be managed, but not everything that counts can be counted. I&#x27;d be interested to see international comparisons and closer attention paid to more subjects than English and maths, as well as psychosocial development, classroom environment, and student mental health.
gunalx超过 1 年前
I&#x27;m sceptical, isn&#x27;t the take from this we should have that we need to improve the education needed for educators. In my childhood, the only teachers that did not make life hell for me where the ones that actually had decent education, and was not just extra hires.
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mjburgess超过 1 年前
I&#x27;m a strong advocate for scrapping all degree requirements to every profession, perhaps even in law (ie., banning most employers from asking).<p>This shifts the burden on to the employer to make a reliable assessment of the applicant. This would have two, imv, favourable effects: 1) a university education would compete on its merits <i>as education</i> with all alternatives; 2) breaking the rent-seeking monopolies universities have on entrance to the jobs market.<p>The law would have to be carefully crafted -- but we&#x27;re long past the era when a degree was predictive of anything. It was always a positional good, and if 50% of the next generation have one there&#x27;s no signal within the noise anymore.<p>And of course, it was always as much about &#x27;keeping the rifraff out&#x27; as it was in selecting good candidates.<p>For certain professions, eg., teaching&#x2F;drs&#x2F;etc., i think it makes more sense for the state to have &#x27;licence to practice&#x27; certifications&#x2F;exams -- rather than assume that a degree is such a licence.
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vcg3rd超过 1 年前
Maybe it&#x27;s actually liscensed educators are no more effective than unlicensed teachers.
dboreham超过 1 年前
Underlying problem: people don&#x27;t want to pay teachers enough.
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api超过 1 年前
Piecemeal, perhaps, but I wonder if this would scale. A whole lot of the HR problems that things like degrees and certifications solve are problems that happen at scale.<p>If you suddenly drop the licensing requirements for teaching, you&#x27;d now have a new job available to anyone in the job market that would start attracting different profiles of people than you will get when emergency hiring teachers. Also emergency hired teachers probably come in via social networks of existing teachers, parents, etc.
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mdip超过 1 年前
Both of my children were taught by an educator without a degree until 6th and 9th grade. Both entered the private school system&#x2F;public school system and have scored two years of perfect grades so far.<p>We were a pretty laid-back home schooling family. My kids didn&#x27;t spend all day nose-in-books, watching documentaries in the afternoon between violin, piano and Spanish lessons. Up until this year it was a closely guarded secret how much time my kids spent &quot;in home school.&quot; Had I let my family or non-homeschooling friends know how much <i>actual</i> formal class time there was, I would have probably been derided as a terrible parent. Now that they&#x27;re sailing through school -- not just doing well, but generally underwhelmed by the difficulty of the material -- I&#x27;m not so shy.<p>They had, on a <i>really good day</i> about 2 hours of actual, formal, class-time with homework. The vast majority of the time, it was under an hour of mom-led learning followed by under an hour of homework, done in one room, alternating kids between homework&#x2F;study but often times with both kids participating in each other&#x27;s lessons (why not?). Aside from having to be single-income, and except for the &quot;they&#x27;re your kids so they aren&#x27;t as easy to teach&quot; problems[0], it wasn&#x27;t difficult at all. Hell, the vast majority of the time -- especially since I work remotely -- it was downright awesome.<p>The above paragraphs might make it sound like I&#x27;m saying &quot;Screw Teachers, their job is easy, any idiot could do it!&quot; Obviously, it&#x27;s much easier to teach two children than it is twenty-ish. Obviously, being that they&#x27;re your own children, you have lack the complexity of dealing with parents, administration and politics. The reason &quot;it worked for us so easily&quot; is almost entirely due to these factors. I think about how, one year, we decided to ditch the math curriculum we were using for my son -- he was struggling, we found something better for him and within a week he was enjoying learning it. Having just the two kids meant we could make <i>sure</i> they were <i>enjoying</i> learning. When kids <i>want</i> to learn something, all you really have to do is point them toward &quot;how.&quot; You&#x27;re not going to get 25 kids -- some who come from tough home situations -- to all <i>enjoy</i> learning.<p>That said, I&#x27;ve never understood why (at least in the past) substitute teachers[1] never required degrees and were plenty effective, homeschooling is allowed <i>without restriction, registration, or any requirement to prove you are actually home schooling</i> to teach from a book basic things that every adult -- at one point -- learned. That sounds dismissive -- I&#x27;d imagine the vast majority of the job <i>isn&#x27;t</i> that, and I have <i>no interest</i> in becoming a teacher <i>because</i> of those factors (difficult children, parents, administration, government) but I&#x27;d be willing to bet there are a lot of very qualified adults who would, but can&#x27;t, because of degree requirements.<p>[0] My daughter was famous for breakdowns during math lessons. She can be emotional, but trust me, she&#x27;s not breaking down in front of her Math teacher at school, today. Incidentally, despite her claiming to hate math all throughout home-schooling days, now that she&#x27;s past Arithmetic, it&#x27;s her favorite subject.<p>[1] Yes, most of the time, that&#x27;s a single-day activity. We had one for three months, once.
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mplewis超过 1 年前
There’s obviously no way this finding is true.
rr808超过 1 年前
With working from home getting popular, even fewer people want to be a teacher. 5 days a week starting at 8am. Not going to happen.
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more_corn超过 1 年前
Low bar
cyanydeez超过 1 年前
now control for salaries
CharlesW超过 1 年前
Note that <i>The 74</i> is an anti-union, pro-privatization, conservative advocacy (disguised as news) site funded by groups like <i>The Dick &amp; Betsy DeVos Family Foundation</i>.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;truthout.org&#x2F;articles&#x2F;campbell-brown-the-new-leader-of-the-propaganda-arm-of-school-privatization&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;truthout.org&#x2F;articles&#x2F;campbell-brown-the-new-leader-...</a>
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mberning超过 1 年前
A lot of my teacher acquaintances have this mistaken idea that they should be paid a lot more because they are “teaching the next generation” or any other variation of that delusion. They don’t seem to understand that the reason they don’t make a lot is because a lot of people can do the job. As we can see from this story.
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