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The New Work-Life Balance: Don't Have Kids

51 点作者 robtherobber超过 1 年前

21 条评论

furyg3超过 1 年前
View from a US-expat in the Netherlands: It doesn&#x27;t have to be as bad as it is.<p>Subsidize daycare, fund schools (from pre-school to university) and focus on learning at-school and not at-home, and pass laws forcing employers to allow parents to reduce their working hours, should they wish to. You can rebuild your cities to be bike able, change gender norms, or change work culture, but honestly the most change will come from the first list.<p>My situation as a parent here:<p>On the cost side, recurring costs for after-school daycare (2x week), school &#x27;contributions&#x27; (field trips), violin lessons and rental, gymnastics classes, and normal clothing purchases are €200&#x2F;month. Daycare is subsidized and we are lucky that we only need two days, but bumping that up to 3 or 4 would not be insane on the cost side. Baby day care was also subsidized, but can get expensive if you are sending them 5x week... it depends on the parent&#x27;s income. For us subsidies covered about a third of the costs, but we earned well.<p>The school here takes care of education, with very little homework. It&#x27;s well-funded, and does not require much extra effort or money from our side. We can be as involved as we want to be.<p>We are able to use only 2x of day care per week because a) most employers understand the needs of parents but mostly b) by law employers are required to let you reduce your hours to, for example, take care of your kids. We both work a half-day once a week, with another family member helping on the remaining day.<p>While the Dutch will complain about higher education costs, the costs are reasonable. A 4 year study will cost you around €10k in tuition, total. That 4 year study results in a masters if the student is able &#x2F; wants to follow a university track.
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nonrandomstring超过 1 年前
There seems to be a colossal misunderstanding in the first line.<p>&gt; successful, meaningful careers, and they just didn&#x27;t see how they could juggle those jobs and the demands of parenthood.<p>That&#x27;s a false dilemma. Meaning does not come from a bare &quot;career&quot;. It comes from how that &quot;career&quot; relates to others. Not everyone can have kids, and many of us find ourselves alone. &quot;Kids&quot; could equally be replaced by charity work, intimate relationships, sports or whatever. But rising up the ranks and accumulating a big pile of money brings neither success nor meaning.<p>I think the observed change in attitudes has less to do with parenting (or not) than that the present generation have bought into the corporate lie much more than earlier ones.
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hiAndrewQuinn超过 1 年前
You could also just work less, or let yourself spend less time and energy on your kids.<p>I get that most people recoil in horror at the latter one. I think they&#x27;re silly. The fact of the matter is the world is a safer and more prosperous place than ever before. You should be able to invest less into your children than your parents did before you and still have them lead happy lives.<p>If you have a child, and your own life isn&#x27;t a pile of misery, you can be reasonably confident your kid&#x27;s life won&#x27;t be either. After all, you grew up in a poorer world than they did. But if you hold back on having children because you fear you can&#x27;t afford to send them to Yale, or buy them all the Steam games they ever wanted, you&#x27;re probably not saving them from a life of pain, you&#x27;re just depriving the world of another soul which could&#x27;ve had a beautiful experience here.
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holoduke超过 1 年前
I have 4 kids. Running my own business helps because of the flexibility. But the costs of living is something i did not expected to be so high. 3k per month for daycare&#x2F;afterschool. Memberships, food, clothing, electronics etc. expensive housing, insurances. We easily spend 8,10k per month without saving anything. Nevertheless I love to have kids. Best investment ever.
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roenxi超过 1 年前
Well, lets look at the data over at OurWorldIndata: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ourworldindata.org&#x2F;grapher&#x2F;children-per-woman-un?tab=chart">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ourworldindata.org&#x2F;grapher&#x2F;children-per-woman-un?tab...</a><p>Looks like the last time there was a big change was 1960, I assume that was the development of good birth control techniques. I&#x27;d theorise that families never really wanted children, and once given the means to make effective choices we discover that humans don&#x27;t think it is that rational to have kids.<p>It is a weirdly philosophical problem - similar to what we will soon face with artificial intelligence - of what <i>exactly</i> are we trying to do as living entities. It is hard to find a path that isn&#x27;t either nihilism or, from a factual and materialistic perspective, insanity.<p>I personally think this is probably a good thing. Evolutionary forces will push society above replacement rates sooner or later by whatever means it takes, but we should enjoy the window where we don&#x27;t need to fight about resources for as long as is possible. If only the African nations would get their birth rates under control, anyway.
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Gud超过 1 年前
“Deeply invested in having successful careers”, yes of course, because rent is too expensive for people in their prime birthing years, and it’s not getting cheaper.<p>So what else are we supposed to do but grind it out and hope things get better
mhitza超过 1 年前
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;aHZX8" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;aHZX8</a>
kristianp超过 1 年前
It&#x27;s an interesting demographic problem: how do you encourage people to have enough children that the working-age population doesn&#x27;t decline so quickly that we can&#x27;t support our retired people and also have a wider effect on the economy? In the long run it&#x27;s something that we&#x27;ll have to deal with. China is starting to experience it.<p>I think that the populations of developed countries will start to decline, and a gradual decline is acceptable. We can&#x27;t rely on immigration forever, presumably less rich countries will start to have less children too as they modernize.
iteratethis超过 1 年前
The article emphasizes socioeconomic conditions as a root cause for the declining birth rate. Whilst those factors do not help, it&#x27;s not why the birth rate is declining.<p>It&#x27;s a universal trend. The exact same issue is happening in countries that are far more family-friendly.<p>The world used to REQUIRE you to have children. As your personal pension plan. By cultural or religious force. Or because of the lack of education or contraceptives.<p>Now in most parts of the world, you&#x27;re not required. It becomes a question of WANT instead of MUST. And when you ask people how many children they want, the answer is typically 0, 1 or 2. Most people still want children, and quite a few prefer 2. But that averages out to 1.5-1.8 in the aggregate. Which is far below replacement level.<p>People still want children, just not many per household. Why the cut-off at 2? Because 3, 4, 5 does not fundamentally improve upon the joy of having children whilst it adds a lot of challenges. Bigger home, bigger car, many more trips to take them everywhere, cooking is more complex, it&#x27;s a mess.<p>Anyway, the point being is that the article is largely wrong. People that do not want any children because of their focus on career will still not want children when policies are more family-friendly. There&#x27;s plenty of evidence of this not working. It doesn&#x27;t move the needle.<p>You should still go for better policies, just don&#x27;t expect it to fix this problem.
notfried超过 1 年前
For those of you who decided not to have kids in your 20s-30s, and are now in your 40s+, when changing that decision now becomes increasingly more difficult: did you regret it? Did your position of “I want to live my life, I don’t want the hassle or the cost, or there are too many humans already, or something else”, did that position change or weaken?<p>Asking for a friend :)
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askonomm超过 1 年前
I don&#x27;t have nor want&#x2F;have any desire for kids, yet all the people with kids keep telling me I should, and not having them is selfish (...how? Isn&#x27;t it the other way around?), and multitude of other reasons why I should definitely have them and that if I don&#x27;t then I&#x27;m somehow a horrible person.<p>What I don&#x27;t get is why people keep forcing their lifestyle onto those with a different lifestyle? Do they see me having all this free time and get jealous and want me to spend the best years of my life also stressing out and raising kids or why is that?
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remoquete超过 1 年前
I&#x27;ve three kids. It&#x27;s wonderful, it&#x27;s exhausting, and it&#x27;s often terrifying. Being a parent is a painful experience, but so is living life. Would my life be easier and less painful without them? Yes. Would my life be better without them? No, just different.<p>I respect antinatalists, but I chose differently. I chose to bring laughter and joy to this absurd, meaningless Universe we habit, even if for a brief lapse. Is it the right choice? Perhaps not. Is it a selfish choice? Yes. Why did I do it then? For the same reason I keep breathing. I don&#x27;t know much more than that.
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ghusto超过 1 年前
On the one hand, I&#x27;m happy to see people being responsible. So many people who shouldn&#x27;t have had children don&#x27;t change, and think they can &quot;have it all&quot;. You can not. Your life as you know it is over, and if that only dawned on you after you already had a kid, then join the club, but don&#x27;t delude yourself, and don&#x27;t make your kid suffer the consequences of your delusion.<p>On the other hand; stop being a little wuss. The reasons I see being given by those fretting the responsibilities seem to be born from general anxiety and over-thinking. Nobody is ever ready to have a child, but we do it any learn along the way because we&#x27;re arrogant enough in the beginning, and humble enough afterward the beginning.<p>What I see with this generation however, is never trying because on paper it&#x27;s impossible. Yes, it&#x27;s impossible, but that shouldn&#x27;t stop you if it&#x27;s what you really want.
wkat4242超过 1 年前
I can imagine. For me it&#x27;s the reason also to not want kids. I want to enjoy my life.<p>But it&#x27;s good for environmental reasons to not have kids anyway.
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shmageggy超过 1 年前
Was anyone able to actually read this article? I was greeted by a barrage of popups and overlays that even broke the back button
okokwhatever超过 1 年前
Wow, just WOW. The Dystopia has gone too far away in 2024... Stop the train please, i&#x27;m jumping out of it.
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okokwhatever超过 1 年前
Please, join the anti-natalist movement. I need more space for the swimming pool in the backyard.
keyle超过 1 年前
I have two kids. It&#x27;s tough. But this kind of &quot;opinion&quot; column on a large network is just despicable.<p>Kids is the hardest thing to come to life, I call it &quot;life on hard mode&quot;. And I&#x27;ve moved across the world. But the gains are immense.<p>You can bend yourself backward your entire career trying to achieve something that is taken away in a whiff. Your children is a richer investment. When you leave this earth, you&#x27;re leaving something tangible.<p>Living a full life is about experiencing life fully. Raising children is a huge part of this. Going to a restaurant twice a week with your partner, when you&#x27;re 40+ and no kids, will get very repetitive and boring.<p>People on HN are typically pretty well off. Low social economic couples tend to have 3, 4, 5+ kids. Certain countries with extremely low standards of living have many kids as well.<p>Look at yourself and be clear about this: we&#x27;re thinning.<p>Society needs fixing, not having less kids. Smart people need to have kids too.<p>If being &quot;smart&quot; is not having kids, we&#x27;ve failed at the game of life!
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Assassink786超过 1 年前
Wait, What?
j7ake超过 1 年前
“We choose to [have kids] and [have a career] not because they are easy, but because they are hard. Because that goal will serve to organise and measure the best of our energies and skills,”
xyzzy4747超过 1 年前
If everyone was anti-natalist, civilization would collapse, and there would be no work or no life. Surely some logical people can see it&#x27;s the wrong approach, unless you despise humans in general and want them gone? We&#x27;re the only species that can create computing or venture into outer space.<p>Anyways, I have one child and hoping for a second. He has been a total joy for me and my wife since he was born.
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