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Duolingo Sucks, Now What?

132 点作者 legrande大约 1 年前

39 条评论

tremarley大约 1 年前
I had an 1000 day streak with Duolingo. The streak is great for being consistent, but I spent almost half of the time on Duolingo at the aim of keeping my streak rather than truly learning the language.<p>When I stopped using the app, I could read the language I learnt ok, but I wasn’t conversational, and couldn’t understand people speaking at their normal pace. Still a beginner.<p>Someone suggested the free language learning website called ‘Language Transfer’ here on Hacker News last year.<p>Within the first day listening to Language Transfer I was fairly conversational. By day 21 I could understand some Spanish shows without sub-titles.<p>Clozemaster is another excellent tool if you want to become proficient in a language.
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alexawarrior3大约 1 年前
Duolingo doesn&#x27;t actually do much if anything to help you become fluent. Nor does almost all the language learning apps such as Drops, Rosetta Stone, etc. What you need to move towards fluency is a lot of &quot;comprehensible input&quot; like with &quot;Dreaming Spanish&quot;.<p>Learning about a language is different from acquiring a language, Krashen et. all has a lot of research on how people actually gain fluency. What most people are doing with language learning is like learning &quot;about&quot; chess, not learning to &quot;play&quot; chess. It&#x27;s why you have people in China, Japan with seven years of English and they can&#x27;t engage in simple conversation, or likewise people in the US, UK with seven years of Spanish and have trouble asking for anything beyond where is the library.<p>This is a great read (worth reading it all if you&#x27;re really interested in acquiring a second language as an adult) about a guy who taught himself French as an adult to a high level of fluency via only watching TV and radio:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;espace.library.uq.edu.au&#x2F;view&#x2F;UQ:9b49365" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;espace.library.uq.edu.au&#x2F;view&#x2F;UQ:9b49365</a>
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amilios大约 1 年前
One of the main disappointments with Duolingo&#x27;s recent path for me has been the removal of the forum. It was so useful whenever I was confused by a certain phrase or new concept to just hop directly into the discussion forum page for that exercise and see others asking the same questions and getting well-written intuitive answers to them.<p>Just boosted my understanding so much plus added a sense of community, that we&#x27;re all going through this learning journey together and thinking about and getting confused by the same things :P Now I&#x27;m relegated to Googling the text of the exercise to find similar info online, just far less useful :(
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can3p大约 1 年前
Can&#x27;t recommend anki flash cards enough. One thing that I found important is that you need to build the deck yourself and you&#x27;ll miss out a lot by using prebaked decks of any kind. Reasons:<p>- Context is the king. Most of the words have multiple meanings and it&#x27;s easier to remember them if you just added them from a text you&#x27;ve read. Moreover, this approach gives you an opportunity to see the words being used in the wild which gives confidence on when to use the word&#x2F;idiom - Words with no context are just harder to learn - 3rd party decks will give you loads of words you don&#x27;t care about<p>For learning French I&#x27;ve found kwiziq much more useful. Very little gamifications and lots and lots of training and exercises with examples that actually make sense
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Benjamin_Dobell大约 1 年前
I&#x27;ve been running through the Japanese course daily for the last 2 months. I&#x27;m learning to read <i>somewhat</i>, but I doubt that if I was to speak I would be understood.<p>I understand there are limitations to this format. However, what drives me nuts is the fact I can&#x27;t just enable the Japanese keyboard (which I&#x27;ve installed) to type out answers. Instead I just select the correct predefined answer from a list. This allows me to pick the &quot;most likely answer&quot; with a very high success rate, but that&#x27;s not going to help me in the wild.
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Balgair大约 1 年前
&quot;A language isn&#x27;t something you learn so much as something you join.&quot;<p>~Arika Okrent<p>Now, they are talking about a computer language, but I think that the same holds for human languages as well.<p>I&#x27;ve used Duo on and off for years now. It&#x27;s near perfect for picking up the basics and keeping me motivated. However, as many others here report, it&#x27;s not as good for fluency. For that, you have to <i>join</i> the language; you can&#x27;t just expect to be able to sit on your phone and never talk to anyone. It&#x27;s a bit of a scary step, you&#x27;re outside your comfort zone, almost by definition. But I think that viewing the new language as something that is inherently done with others is a better way to view the process of learning it.<p>That said, yeah, supplement Duo with a YouTube soap opera (that you like) in the language that you&#x27;re trying to join, that helps a lot.
rrr_oh_man大约 1 年前
Has Duolingo <i>ever</i> worked for <i>actual</i> language learning?<p>It has always seemed more like pseudo-productivity to me.
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ksherlock大约 1 年前
&gt; Now that the quality of Duolingo has fallen (even more) ...<p>Posted Jan 9th, 2024, but that would seem to be an evergreen sentiment. Based on my streak, I&#x27;ve been using it 4 years. I don&#x27;t think I&#x27;ve never seen a change that improved the user experience or learning and many of them (removing discussions and dictionaries) made learning worse.
zzzbra大约 1 年前
Have to say I really hate it when people boost the Anki clone AnkiApp over the original open source project.
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huimang大约 1 年前
I really hate that duolingo is perceived by so many people as a singular resource to learn a language. For certain languages it&#x27;s a great -complement- and can be great for motivating you to study.<p>But you need stronger primary resources if you desire to actually -speak- the language to a non-trivial degree with natives. It&#x27;s very frustrating watching people waste so much time on duolingo and then burning out after they &quot;study&quot; with it for a year and don&#x27;t see much progress toward fluency.
bluGill大约 1 年前
Do not think too hard about this question. Find an answer that seems to work and start studying. There is no shortcut to time spent studying the language. Sure some methods are better than others, but don&#x27;t spend too much time finding the best, just pick something fast and start in it. Daily study is the key, the more the better - just don&#x27;t burn out.<p>Beware that most people who tell you something is the best way have not actually done a formal study. They either used something and it works so they think it is best, or used something, didn&#x27;t feel like they learned, then used something else and give all the credit to the second thing even though it built off the first.
kebsup大约 1 年前
And yet again, I&#x27;m promoting my app on HN.<p>SRS flashcards, sentences and audio generated with AI, Wiktionary, YouTube, Webbrowser integration: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;vokabeln.io" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;vokabeln.io</a> (landing page is old)<p>Only works for German right now, but I&#x27;ll be adding Spanish and English in the coming months.
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Almondsetat大约 1 年前
Doulingo is in the interesting position of having such a big userbase with a locked in reward system that they could change their learning strategy overnight and completely revolutionize languge learning forever.<p>If course they won&#x27;t do it, it&#x27;s simpler to just space-repeat vocabulary and spend the money on people with green bird costumes making tiktoks
hughesjj大约 1 年前
For mandarin, excelmandarin (grammar, conversations) and HackChinese (vocab) have been incredibly useful for me. Biggest issue is spare time, or the lack thereof.
AndyKelley大约 1 年前
WaniKani is great for reading Japanese.
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ConnorMooneyhan大约 1 年前
Two more:<p>For a course format with more audio exposure? Speakly<p>For an immersion-based approach that will help you improve reading fluency massively once you know just a little bit? LingQ
tropdrop大约 1 年前
I have not found Duolingo valuable for learning a language from scratch – my experience with German, in particular, was terrible. Then I tried to do Japanese with it, and trying to use it to learn Japanese from scratch was also terrible.<p>However, after I took a couple of years of real (institutional) coursework in Japanese, and needed to just get a little better at recognizing proper grammar constructions, it actually proved very useful – at the paid level, anyway, where one can &quot;skip&quot;&#x2F;place into higher levels – and it seems their Japanese module in particular has drastically improved in the last couple of years.<p>So my two cents are that used for language learning alone it&#x27;s pretty useless. But used as a reminder aide for concepts already learned it can be a good app, especially to just hear how one might phrase a sentence more &quot;naturally&quot; (for a Japanese ear).<p>For Kanji, though, WaniKani is king.
burner420042大约 1 年前
I live in Mexico and have for the last several years. I moved here not knowing any Spanish. I now speak at a B1 almost B2 level.<p>Every extranjero (foreigner) I know learned Spanish differently.<p>What they all have in common though is they all read books, starting at the Spanish equivalent of the US &quot;The Very Hungry Caterpillar&quot;, magazines, the newspapers.<p>Additionally, they all like to talk to people and they&#x27;re never embarrassed by their errors, thus they practice listing to and talking in this new language all the time. You have to lean into practicing with other people and doing it in public.<p>Book learning for the grammar and vocab, and writing all of it out on paper. Typing notes out on Duolingo or your computer doesn&#x27;t work.<p>For me I needed a Spanish teacher, for me it&#x27;s a lady that teaches English in a local grade school.
swatson741大约 1 年前
I like Duolingo a lot. I don&#x27;t think it sucks at all. The only problem I&#x27;ve had with the app is that the sentences per lesson are planned by a teacher with clear learning objectives. But, despite this they use speech synthesis for everything but the stories. The synthesized speech is comprehensible but, it seems sort of lazy on the part of the Duolingo team. Especially when so many apps use native speakers for their quizzes.
bossyTeacher大约 1 年前
People create solutions for problems that don&#x27;t exist. You want to learn a language? Go to a language school with actual human teachers, socialise with native speakers of your target language, watch media in the target language. Unless the language in question is a minority language, or its speakers live mostly in specific regions (like the americans, for example), this is the oldest and most reliable way to learn a language
sotix大约 1 年前
People overthink language learning. Use Language Transfer[0] for lessons and Anki[1] for flashcards. Both are completely free. You&#x27;ll be at a passable level within 3 months, which is an amazing rate of growth.<p>[0]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.languagetransfer.org&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.languagetransfer.org&#x2F;</a><p>[1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;apps.ankiweb.net&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;apps.ankiweb.net&#x2F;</a>
rareitem大约 1 年前
I disagree with premise of this article. I don&#x27;t see how the quality of Duolingo has fallen, I keep learning more and more. For me, Duolingo made the friction of starting to learn a language (Spanish) very low. It provides with a clear path to follow. I can practice my reading, listening, speaking and writing all in one place. Of course, someone shouldn&#x27;t restrict themself only to Duolingo.
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pigcat大约 1 年前
+1 for Mango Languages (available free with my Library Card)<p>It&#x27;s very well designed. The spaced repetition is effective. The lesson order is sensible. The Romanian lessons have a real speaker narrating the pronunciation, compared to Duolingo&#x27;s AI narrator, which was terrible for learning.<p>I tried Duolingo briefly but the over-gamification wasn&#x27;t for me. Everything was about gems and lives, major turnoff.
jszymborski大约 1 年前
Anki is suggested for SRS, but are there decks available with audio? That would be a pretty near Duolingo replacement in my books.
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spiffytech大约 1 年前
My wife switched to Univerbal&#x2F;Quasel (they&#x27;ve done a couple Show HNs). It&#x27;s an AI that holds conversations with her, either text or audio.<p>She wouldn&#x27;t suggest it for a total novice, but as a B1 French speaker she&#x27;s pretty happy with it. It&#x27;s great practice, and is helping her pronunciation, vocab, etc.
aSithLord大约 1 年前
Immersion school is the only way to learn another language. tutors, apps, classes are all garbage in the real world.
maerF0x0大约 1 年前
Not speaking relative to other apps, but I have found DL useful for learning more words in a language I already have some training in. (and for reviving after breaks from the language)<p>For Spanish (a really fast language) it wasn&#x27;t that useful for actual conversational practice. It&#x27;s much slower than native
garspin大约 1 年前
I too tried DL &amp; learnt too slowly &amp; gave up on the irritating gamification.<p>I run alone (at a slow conversational pace) for 5-6 hours a week, and see that time as an opportunity to learn conversational German. Any ideas what I could be listening to... maybe a listen &amp; repeat type app ?
jmyeet大约 1 年前
I did Duolingo every day for a year. I don&#x27;t remember any of it.<p>Add that to the constant trend of adding features to make you a paying customer, like the hated hearts system, and I honestly don&#x27;t see the point. Whatever the solution to language learning is, this isn&#x27;t it.
andrewtbham大约 1 年前
I recently wrote a langauge app... my approach has been.. 1. start with ear training. (minimal pairs) 2. learn some vocab (anki) 3. then use social media. tik tok specifically.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.oohwoo.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.oohwoo.com&#x2F;</a>
martinrue大约 1 年前
I&#x27;ve been building <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;yakk.app" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;yakk.app</a> for the past 2 years. It&#x27;s only good for anyone curious to learn Esperanto right now, but Spanish + German books coming next.
volvogradSaint大约 1 年前
I am curious how difficult it is to run a business with apple and google&#x27;s 30 per cent overhead on every transaction. Must be onerous.
throwawaaarrgh大约 1 年前
Do Duolingo users actually want to speak the language? Or just read it? Because it does the latter a bit, doesn&#x27;t do the former.
ecto大约 1 年前
My current project is a &quot;Duolingo for everything&quot; called RubberDuck. GPT4 is used to generate the curriculum.<p>I started it as a tool to teach myself new programming languages but realized it could be generalized. Right now I&#x27;m taking the Linear Algebra and Ancient Greek History courses.<p>Would love if you checked it out!<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.rubberduck.gg" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.rubberduck.gg</a>
wintorez大约 1 年前
Says who?!
monissiddiqui大约 1 年前
The best test for language mastery is playing deception games like coup or Avalon while speaking the language.<p>Sorry I have no input on how to actually get to that stage, just had that shower thought one day.
pizza_pleb大约 1 年前
Immersion with native content: develop listening+reading comprehension.<p>Success is measured with time spent with the language. Find something that interests you at your skill level:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;languageroadmap.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;languageroadmap.com</a><p>and Anki for top 1000 words + sentence mining if you like flashcards.
brandly大约 1 年前
&gt; Now that the quality of Duolingo has fallen (even more) due to AI<p>Source?
ryandrake大约 1 年前
The formatting on this web site kind of sucks too. I measured 9 inches of horizontal whitespace border on each side of the strip of content that measures 4.5 inches wide. So a full 4&#x2F;5 of my browser window is unused empty space.
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