The adult consequences of being bullied in childhood

Not bullied in school since I could usually hold my own, but bullied by my father throughout my life. Being in a country where parental corporal punishment is normal, even encouraged, I was hit for minor to major (getting bad marks, staying out late to play with friends) events all throughout my life till I could save up enough to move out when I was 18.<p>It took me my entire college life to get over the feeling of dread of an incoming kick or slap to my face when I said something that would be confrontational, it made it incredibly difficult for me to say no to things because any sort of response that wasn&#x27;t in line with what an authority figure wanted would give me major fight-or-flight rendering me useless. Even at this point I avoid conflict but have done much better to face my fears and build the ability to speak my mind confidently.<p>The PTSD made me leave my consultancy that I worked incredibly hard to build with a professor and a senior because they were working me to the ground and I didn&#x27;t have the ability to say anything. Even at this moment the remnants of my past make me fearful of even applying for jobs even though I know I have a skillset that&#x27;s industry standard.<p>Bullying in any shape or form is horrible and can have lifelong consequences on your psyche. To those who perpetrate it or stand by and do nothing, please reconsider that it may affect someone&#x27;s life as negatively as it has affected mine.<p>Apologies for the rant, more power to those who feel they cannot stand up for themselves.

I was bullied, mainly when I was between 10 and 11. This was in the 80&#x27;s. I recall being both verbally and physically attacked by large groups of other students. My teachers didn&#x27;t believe me so I couldn&#x27;t turn to them.<p>In one of the events 8 kids chased me several miles through neighborhoods and fields. Eventually they caught and surrounded me in a front yard. Luckily, an older woman opened her door and had me step inside her home. A few minutes later she drove me home. I&#x27;m sure she&#x27;s passed by now but I will always be grateful to her.<p>To a degree, this abuse made me a mean person in later school years. I had my growth spurt between 11 and 12. When I started at a new school, in my new body, I was able to decide that I would no longer be a victim. At about the same time my Grandfather, a massive retired military dude, explained that nobody ever got in trouble for making the first strike in an inevitable conflict.<p>That advice became my strategy and I was engaged in half a dozen fights where my opponent approached and threatened me and I went all-in with my fists. That gave me a reputation that meant very few others ever bothered me. My fighting stopped shortly after I graduated and I haven&#x27;t used my fists in 29 years.

Few questions:<p>- Should we create laws to penalize bullying?<p>Given the reports of bullying&#x27;s adverse effects of a society&#x27;s productivity, I&#x27;m almost wondering if we should apply legal penalties to bullies and mitigate such externalities. For instance, South Korea enacted a policy in which records of bullying are reflected on college entrance.[1]<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.straitstimes.com&#x2F;asia&#x2F;east-asia&#x2F;bullying-records-to-be-reflected-in-south-korea-s-university-admissions" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.straitstimes.com&#x2F;asia&#x2F;east-asia&#x2F;bullying-records...</a><p>- Will childhood bullies continue to bully as adults?<p>Are childhood bullies likely to continue bullying as adults, e.g. verbal abuse at the workplace? Being at work sometimes remind me of the atmosphere at high school. Cramping in the same people in a confined space replicates the tribe-like social dynamics akin to high school.<p>Whenever someone makes a verbally abusive statement, I wonder if they have behaved similarly in school, and never faced behavioral correction.<p>- What kind of places are least likely to have bullies, for children and adults?<p>I would love to avoid bullies for the rest of my life. What kind of workplaces are least likely to have them?

Is there a study that compares the difference in bullying between countries?<p>I have a feeling that bullying was&#x2F;is particularly common and more violent in the UK compared to the rest of the world.<p>I am from France, and I always found the portraiture of bullying in English culture quite foreign to me. Repeated beatings, total humiliation, stalking, all these horrific behaviors did seem fairly established in the UK, while they were exceptional in my personal experience (not that it didn’t exist, but their frequency was much lower, and their intensity much milder).<p>It seems to me like the culture of both boarding schools, and “keep calm and carry on” (for lack of a better word) were a particularly fertile ground for such bad behaviors to spread.<p>But maybe I am wrong, just an intuition here.

Adults would be allowed to have restraining orders on their abusers. Children just have to see them every day.

I was bullied at primary school (when I was 7-15). Mostly because I was very sickly, also because I was a nerd.<p>I managed to &quot;overcome&quot; my social anxiety at high school and both high school and university were pretty good experiences with good friends, no bullying, I even started dating by the end of university (which was horrifying to me earlier). I thought back then that bullying won&#x27;t have any bad effects, I was pretty religious and considered it a trial that I passed that made me stronger and more empathic to people being victimized.<p>Problems started at work and in relationships. I realized after decades that I consistently let other people walk all over me by default and it caused A LOT of issues. I rejected all the women who seemed &quot;too good for me&quot; becuse they were normal healthy people, and I have been in a series of co-abusive toxic relationships (somehow the girls ALL have turned out to be bullied as well later).<p>I stayed at my first IT job for over 5 years not asking for rises while the IT salaries grew quickly here, and by the end I was underpaid by more than 50% compared to people with similar experience and skill. I had problems with procrastination and I always felt I&#x27;m about to be fired, but by now I worked for several companies and managed to get to normal senior-level income and all of the companies were always saying they are happy with my performance. I was a teamlead for a while and they were OK with my performance too. I realized consciously they wouldn&#x27;t keep me if they were lying, but deep down I thought they are lying for some reason and they are about to fire me. Sometimes it was so strong a feeling I couldn&#x27;t deal with it and have left the job on my own.

I was bullied as a child, and it is something I remember vividly to this day. As a result I was kept in at recess, found a computer, played a game on it, figured out how to make little modifications to it, and… a couple stints each at VPE and CTO haven’t been so bad.<p>I’m lucky. That teacher was exceptional.

I was bullied at school as a kid, it was shit… but sometimes when I look at what my bullies are up to these days thanks to social media, I can see quite clearly that despite being bullied, I fared better in terms of achieving a better education, higher income, and even being overall physically healthier. None of my bullies could run a half marathon now, most dropped out of university or never even attempted to go to university, and many of them are actually unemployed.<p>There’s no doubt in my mind that being bullied has significant consequences, but this post made me wonder… what’s the consequences later on for those who bully? Surely that kind of anti-social behaviour leads to poor outcomes for them too??

Before bullying was eliminated from schools, bullying was pervasive, and I know several friends who were bullied throughout their schooling. The emotional scars and struggles with self-esteem they faced lasted long after the bullying itself stopped.

School-age bullying is considered a major crisis in South Korea. Looks like this study backs up the sentiment.

Success stories on HN of people doing great despite being bullied coming in ...<p>Which undermines the vast majority and should not even be considered.<p>I&#x27;ve been bullied pretty much continously as a child and I&#x27;m 100% sure it made me a worse and more paranoid person with all disadvantages to that attached.

I was bullied pretty incessantly 12 - 16. It wasn&#x27;t the worst, but it went on a long time. It had two effects on my life. My self confidence and self image were both very low for a long time - for example I was asked about by a girl and my response was just &quot;why would you want anything to do with me&quot;. It also made me a bit of a bully myself during and afterwards. I&#x27;m glad I was able to think that through and stop it happening. I&#x27;m in my 40s now, these kind of thoughts still catch me out.<p>I&#x27;ve got my own kids now and we homeschool. Which is not really because of my own experience at school but still, friends with kids tell of the antics at school and I&#x27;m glad mine aren&#x27;t involved in either side of those stories.

For people here still struggling with their bullying (past), I’d highly recommend Cognitive Behavior Therapy together with EMDR. The same professional applied both techniques in my case. It has worked wonders for me and the painful past is much less painful now. Having being bullied no longer define my sentiments and outlook in life.

Yep, age 7 and 11 were peak bullying ages. Verbal and physical abuse, scapegoating. Ignored and blamed by administration. Parents from an era where “boys will be boys”.<p>Now: Homeless and broke. Out of work for a long time. I let people shit all over me, even in adulthood.<p>I was told that adulthood would be different. In fact, it was the same as childhood, but more insidious.<p>I pray for death being unable to commit suicide. Failed attempts. I don’t want any help. I just want to go to sleep and not wake up.<p>Related: is it weird that the identity of my childhood bully ostensibly exists on some dossier in possession by a big tech company, and has been used as part of a demoralization campaign? How would I even know if this had occurred intentionally? Seems to me that the information secrecy and closed source nature of social media big tech firms is ripe for abusing data as part of malicious psychological warfare: bullying on algorithmic steroids. I am quite sure that this has happened to me repeatedly (google, twitter), yet there’s no pathway to inquire, etc. no accountability, no transparency. Unlike other hn users, I don’t have insider friends at those orgs to inquire.

It sure hasn&#x27;t done me any favors. I have often wondered who I would have been without all of that. Would I have been a better person? Someone at peace?

I wonder do bullies know they are bullies (like crazies realizing they are crazy)? Judging by this thread no bullies exist among IT people and all of them are victims of bullying.<p>Luckily I was not really bullied thanks to my height being always tallest in class and besides being kinda shy nerd I hang out with popular kids not being completely out of touch.

You forget so much of your childhood, but those bullied moments stick.

I was bullied between 6 and 16. I got hit, mocked, ignored, etc. I felt like I did not exist apart in my head.<p>My father was also very violent and I was scared shitless when he was angry. And he was always angry at something or someone. He tried to strangle my mom multiple times, hit me, broke windows, yelled like a madman...<p>It turned me into a ghost, trying to be invisible while I hated not being &quot;seen&quot;.<p>I was crazy shy, couldn&#x27;t look at people for long, felt bad whenever I saw they saw me. My safe place was the Web. It saved my life, and helped me find (or created??) my passion.<p>It took me a good 20-25 years to evolve and start daring to live more the way I wanted. Now I&#x27;m 40, it&#x27;s all far behind, but I still get sad from time to time, thinking about all that crap. Yet, I&#x27;m thankful, because it turned me into someone with a lot of inner calm, patience, empathy, and willingness to make people around me happier. I have very few deep relationships, but I value those a lot, and I don&#x27;t need any more.<p>Empathy, calm and patience are powerful and valuable skills to have in many life situations.

Sounds like maybe they mixed up cause and effect. If you have awful characteristics that would affect you otherwise in life, you might be made fun of in school for those characteristics. But that bullying didn&#x27;t cause you to have the characteristics. It&#x27;s just something that comes with it. Obviously nobody should be bullied. But is it really the main reason why these kids struggled in life?

I know it says these outcomes are independent of other adverse childhood experiences, but I wonder if it really is as much worse as it feels when the parent responsible for your other ACEs <i>is</i> your childhood bully.

I wonder what mindset has to do with some of this? I&#x27;m speaking as someone who was bullied badly when I was younger, still am I guess, but obviously I have no idea how representative I am individually.<p>When I was first bullied in school it was scary and I was made to feel a victim by my parents and teachers – bullying is bad and therefore me being bullied made me a victim.<p>This got worse the more I tried to get other people to do something about it. I&#x27;d tell my parents and teachers and the more I asked for help the more they&#x27;d take sympathy and try to help, but as those who have been bullied are likely aware rarely does telling the teacher actually put an end to the bullying.<p>A few years later I change schools and made a friend who was a bit of a weirdo. People didn&#x27;t like either of us so we got on. He had a completely different view on bullying to me though. When he got bullied he&#x27;d always fight back. He wouldn&#x27;t always come out on top, but he always fought back. And then he started doing the same for me when I was bullied. And seeing him do this I started to fight back with him.<p>First the first time in years I felt like I was no longer powerless to bullies. Now it was something I could fix. Obviously I still didn&#x27;t like being bullied but it became way easier to do with once I realised it was my problem to solve. The shame and helplessness was no longer there and I started to stand up for myself. Obviously sometimes there was nothing we could do. If a group of kids want to beat you up, they&#x27;ll do it. But we&#x27;d always find a way to get them back later when they were on their own.<p>When I look back on my bullying now I view it as the single best thing that ever happened to me because it gave me the self confidence to take action and solve my own problems.<p>To this day people will say mean things to me from time to time, but I have a ridiculously thick to the point that I rarely ever react unless people start getting physically abusive. While I might still get nervous when someone is physically aggressive towards, I don&#x27;t feel powerless or a victim anymore. The only thing that goes through my mind is, 1: how do I ensure my safety, and two: how do I get this person back for what they&#x27;ve done.<p>What I&#x27;ve seen among many of my friends who were also bullied though is a kinda low self esteem and low self worth which holds them back. They avoid social interaction. They avoid conflict. They struggle to deal with their emotions. Etc.. And honestly I think that&#x27;s partly because they were taught that they were victims from a young age and they&#x27;re subconsciously embraced that as they&#x27;ve grown up where I was lucky enough to break out of that cycle.<p>The other thing I&#x27;d say here is that I don&#x27;t understand why we treat crimes committed by children so differently. If a child is physically abusing another individual they should be arrested. Not punishing bullying in my opinion is why it&#x27;s so common. The teacher saying, &quot;please stop punching James in the face or I&#x27;ll call your mum&quot; obviously isn&#x27;t going to do anything. It&#x27;s utterly absurd the level of abuse we allow kids to get away with.<p>I guess to summarise what I&#x27;m saying, I think the reason bullying is such a big issue is because kids are taught they&#x27;re powerless victims whilst nothing is ever done to actually stop the bullying from continuing. My school used to tell me if someone is being physically abusive to me I should say, &quot;please don&#x27;t do that, I don&#x27;t like it&quot;. What we should actually do is tell children they must either physically defend themselves (if they can) or get out of the situation. Then once they&#x27;re safe they should immediately call the police to report the crime. If we want to stop bullying this is how we&#x27;d do it.

There&#x27;s the issue of correlation vs causation here. There is no controlled experiment where children are randomly assigned to control or test group and those in the test group are bullied (that would be unethical).<p>It&#x27;s plausible there are many root factors that contribute both to negative life outcomes, and also increase the chance of being bullied. E.g. being disabled, or autistic, or even just ugly. That would cause the correlation mentioned, even if the school bullying itself didn&#x27;t worsen outcomes.

My view is that people who bully others in childhood are actually training for bullying adults later in life. Where the absolute maximum is becoming a dictator with the ability to genocide entire nations. Such is human nature, I suppose.

&gt; <i>We conclude that being bullied in childhood creates a lifetime of misery.</i><p>Playing devil&#x27;s advocate here in case someone has a clearer causation-not-correlation story: what could we look at to determine whether bullying causes a lifetime of misery, or whether 7 and 11 year old bullies are deliberately picking on those they think are just beginning their lifetimes of misery?<p>(reading Orwell&#x27;s <i>Such, Such Were the Joys</i> about his english private school days gave me great insight into his &quot;the cruelty is the point&quot; world of <i>1984</i>)

I think back about the bullying i got at school, and shrug. The main culprits are dead, or stuck in a drug loop that isn&#x27;t going to end well or are not doing very well.<p>fuckem. karma got them I think.

What those adult consequences are does depend on what one being bullied does about it and how.<p>I was bullied to the point of near complete ostracision in high school.<p>After a few months, I had a talk with some adults I knew outside my usual circle. These were mentors, some tech people teaching me assembly language and radio. Others were farmers, military, one business owner.<p>The advice and knowledge I was given varied dramatically! The official circle of people I was supposed to listen to were kind of weak and a lot of their focus was avoidance and coping until adulthood. Parents and school.<p>Pardon me, but fuck that!<p>These other people were far more real in what they told me and I felt empowered to not be a victim.<p>Let&#x27;s just say I spent a year making sure some bullies paid extremely high prices for bullying me. Some ended up with cars that would not work anymore without very expensive repairs. Some had accidents on stairs and other advantageous places. Still others lost relationships with people they valued highly.<p>Put simply, in those years I learned the true meaning of &quot;do what it takes.&quot;<p>I got whomped on a few times and that was about it. And when that happened I made damn sure to make sure it cost them. Usually they won, but also usually they did not do it again.<p>A lot of what happened could never be associated with me. Funny thing about bullies. When they are impacted to the point of real loss, material goods, status, etc... they often find they lack what it takes to bully.<p>And I turned out just fine. Left my small town with a bunch of skills and a small circle of friends I know to this day.<p>Since that time, I have rarely felt the need to do those sorts of things. It is nice to know I can. It sucks to know I may have to.<p>Not sorry. No regrets.<p>In ny post childhood life away from the hate churches and pools of well meaning but very toxic people, I was able to rid my life of personal judgements and fear, blame and shame.<p>I amplify the good in my circles. The people on my teams are encouraged to take no shit. Don&#x27;t be mean. In fact, be nice to the point of helping enemies while making it clear far worse could be happening.<p>People do change.<p>Some change because they want to. That&#x27;s me. I want to be a good human and got no time for low quality ones and their painful and often expensive general fuckery.<p>Some change out of fear, or cost too. I know I have a few of those under my belt. A few of those people are friends now. People who I would help at great personal cost and risk. I reached them. It was expensive and painful to do.<p>This world is pretty damn harsh. Our government is lackluster on a good day and people range all over the map. It can be hard to make a buck too.<p>Fact is, we need to take damn good care of our own and make sure they are empowered to give every bit of what they get, but not even a small measure more. Equally empowered to extend a hand in help. And above all, feel no shame for who they were born as. Nope. None of that shit makes sense.<p>Looking at me you would never know. Good. That means I got fully past whatever it is, which leaves me free to amplify good where and with whom I can.<p>And in that sense, we live in the world we create.<p>Mine does not have tolerance of bullying in it. Mine says you get to live your truth with no fear, blame or shame. None of us picked being straight, queen, gay, trans, whatever.<p>Mine says you are smart enough to do whatever it is and there is no shame asking for help either.<p>And how lucky did I get?<p>Found a woman who was also bullied, and who also did much of what I write here! She is the best and was better than me in some much needed ways. Great! We are who we hang with and who we value.<p>Choose carefully and the benefits are life long. Ignore that reality and the pain and suffering, struggle is also life long.<p>At any given time we have the rest of our lives to get these things right and benefit from having done so. Why doddle?<p>We are passing these things along. Here is an example:<p>Son in primary school has peer saying &quot;nigger&quot;, &quot;nigger&quot; to my son non stop. Yes, he is black and I am not. No, it does not matter.<p>He went with all the conflict resolution strategies the school and other professionals insisted on.<p>One day he came home and said he has had quite enough. Nothing worked.<p>Ok fine. Fact is nothing worked because none of that stuff actually reached the other peer where it matters!<p>I told him to make it hurt. But nothing life changing. No biting off of things, no poking out, ripping, breaking bones... just make it hurt and when the authority calls you off, comply and have them give me a call.<p>I got the call and arrived in a room with a principal, the parents of the kid who just got hurt, the kid who got hurt, my son and me.<p>I walked in, made polite greetings all around and then nicely, but firmly put a stop to the conversation starting about how my son needs to... nope. Full stop.<p>I said the cost of racism just went up. Kid does it again, they can expect the same response. I asked him directly if he would please find something, anything else to entertain himself.<p>Told him the hurt he is feeling is the same hurt my son felt fro a few months!<p>Made sure he knew it just does not have to be this way too. His call.<p>They suspended my son, who I immediately handed one $20 for each day to spend at his grandparents house doing keep up work which we expected to leave home with that day.<p>Needless to say they were shocked!<p>I got called a lot of things which I ignored completely.<p>We packed up, wished them well and left.<p>Kid never said nigger to my son again.<p>Years later they ended up on the same ball team I was coaching. That kid comes up and asks if we have a problem.<p>Of course not! I give him that shoulder touch of encouragement a coach will sometimes do for a player they feel will benefit from and said, &quot;Let&#x27;s go have a great season playing ball!&quot;<p>Turns out it was that kids father instigated that shit. Kid told me after a time and man was I pissed! The very same parents expressing righteous indignation so many years ago, as if! (I am feeling a bit of that anger still. Good grief!)<p>My son and that kid remain good friends.<p>Like others here, my own Dad bullied me too. That is what drove me to seek others outside my circle for help. IMHO, having a parent do that is the worst!<p>It does real harm that endures. Healing that harm is hard. It is real, ugly, messy, human work.<p>I had to put my own father in jail for bullying my mother who never did anything but be good to others and try hard to make sure we always had food to eat. I had a gun pointed at me once too. Talked him down, got it and tossed it in a pond while waiting for police to arrive. (That was tough and quite possibly the most difficult thing I have ever done.)<p>Had I not received the wisdom and empowerment I did, I have no doubt I would have not married the fine woman I did and would be a very different person today. Likely a fearful, weaker, sad one.<p>I might be dead. I wonder if that other possible me would stay cool at gunpoint...<p>I got lucky and I know it. So many of us are unlucky.<p>When we see that, we can help. I think we should, and I personally do.