The lifespan of large appliances is shrinking

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This has a very simple reason: the cost of manufacturing has shrunk and the cost of repair has not. Because repairs require expensive people and manufacturing can take place with automation or cheap labor.<p>The worst offenders aren&#x27;t large appliances, it&#x27;s the cheap crap. If a store sells me an electric toothbrush for $79 and it breaks after a month shouln&#x27;t just be required to replace it, it has to be worse than that to make products where even 1&#x2F;1000 fail. And the result of such action would be that electric tooth brushes soon cost $200 instead of $79. But that&#x27;s a <i>good thing</i>.<p>When I browse appliances or electronics, I want to know the lifespan. Not just the warranty. I want to know how long people actually use this particular product. And it can&#x27;t just be based on some Amazon review system, it needs to be reliable and cover every seller. Like car mileage I need to have a decent idea about what to expect. And even if just 10% of product have this rating - that&#x27;s <i>also</i> a good thing. It would mean less churn because manufacturers would be reluctant to replace an officially labeled product with a new one.<p>So we&#x27;d have longer lasting, rarely replaced models, more expensive products. Which is what we need.

Here in Norway, for large appliances there&#x27;s a 5-year statutory warranty[1], 2 years for smaller appliances etc.<p>It covers anything that&#x27;s not a wear-item breaking due to normal use. The shop who sold it has the burden of proof in case they want to claim it&#x27;s been exposed to non-normal usage.<p>The shop has the right to try to repair the damage, but after two times (for the same issue), you have the right to get your money back.<p>Now surviving 5 years doesn&#x27;t mean the thing will last 20. But it should at least keep the crap away.<p>[1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.forbrukerradet.no&#x2F;cause-for-complaint&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.forbrukerradet.no&#x2F;cause-for-complaint&#x2F;</a>

It&#x27;s hard to maintain a revenue stream if your product is good enough to last, so the products are engineered to either be part of a subscription, to be replaced far sooner than necessary, or both. They&#x27;re worried more about their revenue sustainability than they are actual product &quot;sustainability.&quot;<p>The &quot;buy-it-for-life&quot; brands ran into this problem because once you sell someone the classic product, they aren&#x27;t going to sell another one unless it&#x27;s to another (new) customer or purchased as a gift for someone by their existing loyal customer. So then they start entering into new product areas and eventually end up compromising quality.<p>As other have mentioned, this is becoming particularly annoying with home appliances and cars. &quot;They don&#x27;t make them like they used to&quot; are true words.

The annoying thing is that you see arcticles in paper and clips on tv that you have to upgrade all your old equipment from the 60s so you can &quot;save energy&quot;.<p>Who wants some iFridge&#x2F;iOven when the equipment made in the 60s was built to survive two zombies apocalypse and one nuclear war and won&#x27;t connect to the internet for a firmware update.<p>Also the CIA can&#x27;t hack your fridge so you get salmonella from your chicken because they have access to your shopping patterns from the super market.

I have a friend who works in production. I cannot remember exactly what his education is, but it&#x27;s a type of engineer. If you want something produced that you have invented, he can get it done.<p>He has mentioned that they have software that can calculate the average lifespan of the finished product by entering the different components that goes into the product (like this piece has this amount of iron, this amount of tin, etc).<p>Based upon this the software can calculate the lifespan very precisely and determine if they have made it &quot;too good&quot;. If it&#x27;s too good the quality is decreased on purpose in order to reduce the lifespan such that people will buy more. Other testing goes into the equation as well, but enough data has been collected over the years that it can be calculated&#x2F;simulated.

It’s not just appliances, it’s even common household items too. Someone disassembled a portable toothbrush that died within some months vs the many years of the one that died before.<p>The original one had what looked like a custom&#x2F;in house engineered motor with a solid structure and beefy battery. The new one had those cheap toy motors that cost a few pennies each along with a flimsy frame and tiny battery to match.

&gt; A spokeswoman for the Association for Home Appliance Manufacturers says [...] data last updated in 2019 shows that the average life of an appliance has “not substantially shifted over the past two decades.”<p>So, unless she is lying, there is actually no story?

It might be an unpopular opinion, but globalization did this — the consolidation and exportation of manufacturing out of the west has decimated manufacturing capabilities in the countries.<p>My father was a tool maker (top of his profession, top shop at Molex for a time). He and everyone he knew had such pride in their work. They also knew who would use their products. They cared about the quality and worked hard to deliver. It was a personal pride thing, as much as anything else.<p>When you export manufacturing, people don’t know who they’re building for. Nor does near slave labor in some places create quality.<p>Not to mention, companies are trying to maximize profit. To contrast, the owner of molex at one point heard my dad needed a surgery. He came down on the shop floor, called him over and sent my dad (and our family) to the Mayo Clinic for 2 weeks to have the surgery done (all expenses paid). It wasn’t for profit, it was for a good business.

The article focuses a lot on GE, however from my experience now most of the appliances are Bosh or LG from Korea.<p>On the LG side, I feel like the quality has really gone downhill over the years. I had a GE washer which gave me 13 years of life -- not bad for $400. I replaced it with an LG now and already regretting it -- complicated controls which seem somewhat redundant, more electronics instead of just knobs to turn.<p>Also bought an LG microwave. Kept blowing my circuit (and yes, it was rated for 15A and I have 20A circuits). Replaced with smaller model, still Chinese garbage, but less complicated. It&#x27;s worked perfectly.

As a consumer you have to do your research more than ever. There are still appliances out there that will outlive you but you need to hunt them down.<p>I recently bought the Gaggia Classic Pro coffee machine for this very reason. You can get into and fix anything in this machine in under 5 minutes.

I’ve thought about this a lot while restoring an old sewing machine. I conclude it comes down to the Labor-Capital share in a market [1].<p>Labor used to be relatively more abundant compared to capital. In these conditions, servicing an older machine makes economic sense.<p>With capital becoming relatively cheap compared to labor, servicing becomes more expensive. It then becomes cheaper to simply replace an appliance, utilizing efficiencies of scale unlocked on the factory floor though greater automation. Repairmen don’t enjoy the same efficiency gains because diagnosing and repairing an issue is still fundamentally a manual process.<p>1 <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Labor_share" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Labor_share</a>

Aside from the typical planned obsolescence for the purpose of recurring revenue, I found this particular example very interesting: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=32462954">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=32462954</a><p>It’s classic greenwashing - a more efficient fridge is obviously better, right? Except they use extremely thin oil so it dies in a few years.<p>Another interesting narrative is how Segway shut down the production of their scooter because they were so well made that they weren’t selling enough! <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=23621279">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=23621279</a><p>It’s a weird world and I wish I could just have my cake and eat it too.

We&#x27;ve gone through three refrigerators in about four years...the first one had survived more than ten years and had just run its course -- all the cheap plastic had broken on it, but it still kept things cold. Replaced with a second-hand LG, and you know how that went - compressor went out after two years and would have cost as much as a new one to repair. Bought an outlet store domestic brand (I forget which one now) - freezer didn&#x27;t work, back to the store it went. Bought a Kenmore (I think?)... turns out it is one of the models that has known issues, and the parts backlog is at least 6 months. Living in small town America, the problem is made worse because we only have two, maybe three repair options - first they tell you they won&#x27;t work on LG, but whatever you buy they won&#x27;t work on that either. Good luck getting a warranty honored on anything. Have decided when I remodel the kitchen, I&#x27;m going big - some kind of commercial fridge, as it is clear that consumer grade stuff simply doesn&#x27;t work. If you are going to spend $3K a pop on a fridge (the prices have gotten crazy too!) and they aren&#x27;t going to last more than a couple years, just spend the $10K on a commercial model and get your decade+ out of it.<p>And then there&#x27;s Bosch, etc... now, I&#x27;d like to buy a Bosch, but my current partner doesn&#x27;t want to spend the money, she likes buying outlet &#x2F; second-hand &#x2F; feeling like she got a deal, which is a problem. But - even the top end consumer Bosch is relatively small and I&#x27;m not sure the plastic bits are any more durable. I do like the dual compressor system though.<p>And then there&#x27;s dishwashers... oh Maytag, how you&#x27;ve fallen thanks to VC&#x2F; PE...

This is why I manufacture a lot of my own appliances these days. The parts are all available online, and I trust my engineering moreso than manufacturers these days.

Personal anecdote: I bought an expensive Samsung cloth dryer. The more recent ones with a heat pump together with the same segment, Samsung cloth washing machine.<p>The drier died after 3 years. Everything else worked by it didn&#x27;t heat, so, it didn&#x27;t dry.<p>I called someone to try to fix it, and they said the heat pump was gone and that they see a lot of that. He advised me to buy one that used the old technology of heating the air through an electric resistance. According to the repairman, those are way more reliable (problem is that, while I can live with the increased energy consumption, they need an external exhaust for the moisture).

I&#x27;ve seen toasters from the ~1930s that seem to be virtually indestructible, and which will still burn your toast just as well as any toaster from the 2020s. I can&#x27;t imagine current appliances lasting 90+ years.<p>Smart toaster ovens may change that equation a bit, both in terms of not burning your toast (due to cameras and various sensors and control systems) and also with even more rapidly accelerated obsolescence as apps and cloud services stop working.

Seems like a good time to start an appliance business.

Shrinking? Appliances&#x27; lifespan shrinking!?<p>They have been given cancer!<p>Thank God for American Hpme Warranty, it actually does pay at least two-fold over 5-year worth of its premium costs.<p>This is not a shill but a testimony of the ridiculous lifespan of dishwasher, refrigerators, stove, garbage disposals, washing machines, dryer, and air conditioner condensor unit.<p>EDIT: and a water heater. House was built in 1990.

on the other hand, my 10 year old mac mini still runs fine, although it no longer supports the latest OSX and many of the more recent APP&#x27;s. But as a media&#x2F;entertainment device, light duty file server, and even coding the occasional throwaway program, it comfortably holds its ground.

FWIW my parents bought me a washer and a dryer for college for $100 a piece in the 1990s. I replaced them 25 years later because the washer was starting to walk. The dryer was fine. I could have easily fixed the washer. That should be the standard.

Always reminds me of <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Phoebus_cartel" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Phoebus_cartel</a>

Not in XXI century C.E. If they wanted to make appliances last longer they could do it. Simply they push you to buy more. Which is in the exact opposite direction.

It’s wise to get new types of Spillane that will be bulletproof<p>The induction stove that boils water in 40 seconds?

I bet this also applies to cars. Seems like cars are getting worse since the pandemic.

Why is there no market for quality? Privacy? Repairability? Have we any remaining pretense of capitalism?

by design

Enshittification is everywhere.

I mean, it&#x27;s cool to pin it on manufacturers trying to increase margins, or on &quot;planned obsolescence&quot; - but a lot of it is our doing. We&#x27;re willingly enabling it. There are manufacturers that make simple and serviceable appliances; for example, most Frigidaire fridges don&#x27;t have cool-looking displays, wifi connectivity, and other bells and whistles. But how many Frigidaire products are sold every year, compared to LG or Samsung? These brands are not only loaded to the brim with &quot;smart&quot; features, but many technicians refuse to work on them due to poor design and poor availability of parts. So when they break after 2-5 years, they are destined for the dump.<p>This day and age, the knowledge is at our fingertips. But when shopping, we select the appliance with the most futuristic LCD and that plugs into Alexa to notify us that the laundry is done...

The downstream reality of globalization and JIT. Push domestic labor overseas to eek out more profits, the products reduce in quality, and you get the surface-level appearance of making more money. Really, though, you&#x27;re just long-term increasing the cost of everything else because what you save in labor, you lose in shipping costs, returns, customer support, and inflation of your national currency (more money printing to offset employment&#x2F;entitlement deficits created by off-shoring).