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Google helped destroy adoption of RSS feeds (2023)

959 点作者 stareatgoats大约 1 年前

62 条评论

nerdjon大约 1 年前
I am glad at least that most sites continue to support rss feeds, whether or not they support it knowingly or if the software they use just happens to include it.<p>But I am not looking forward to when that changes, I like getting my news in a timeline manner from exactly who I want.<p>One part of the article bothers me a bit:<p>&gt; Users were left with no RSS reader application, no comparable alternative, and no education from Google on how to continue using their RSS feeds without Google Reader. This led users to not only discontinue using Google Reader, but abandon RSS feeds altogether.<p>I may be misremembering but didn&#x27;t Feedly step up very quickly? Even offering the ability to easily migrate everything over.<p>I continue to use Feedly today and it has been great. Maybe I just didn&#x27;t really notice since I have always used a third party app on iPhone (Reeder) so I just repointed the app from Google Reader to Feedly and it was basically as if nothing happened.<p>Don&#x27;t get me wrong them shutting it down was the start of me distancing myself from Google services. But I feel like there was very much an alternative that seemed to advertise fairly heavily on migration. Or am I misremembering the timeline a bit?
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gmurphy大约 1 年前
I designed Chrome, and was responsible for decisions around its UI, including the addition and removal of the RSS button.<p>Our design philosophy at the time, which was in reaction to the bloated I-need-engagement-for-my-team browser UIs of the time, was to only offer what people needed, and allow extensions to cover everything else.<p>I loved RSS. We all did. I still use Feedly every day and mourn the loss of Google Reader. But even back then, practically no-one else cared, even amongst our early adopter userbase. If we had lowered our usage bar to allow the RSS button, the bar would&#x27;ve been low enough that a thousand other features-you-don&#x27;t-want-but-other-people-do would&#x27;ve been in there too (omg the arguments about having a &quot;print&quot; button).<p>Extensions was our &quot;if you want it, you can add it&quot; answer. It was imperfect, because it didn&#x27;t allow ideas such as RSS to be advertised to the mainstream, but we had already clearly seen that that hadn&#x27;t worked, and regardless, your daily tools should not be a place for pushing agendas unless you have total confidence that they will be valued.<p>I still think &quot;following stuff&quot; is an unsolved, undervalued problem and big opportunity space
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BeetleB大约 1 年前
As someone who never relied on Google for RSS, this article comes across as somewhat nonsensical.<p>Most Google Reader users were not using RSS before and likely would never have used them if not for Reader. They didn&#x27;t kill RSS - they introduced people to it.<p>As someone who used a self hosted reader as well as a standalone desktop reader, the coming and going of Reader went completely unnoticed.<p>Ditto with browser support. Even Firefox dropped it - and they&#x27;re the browser that introduced the feature! Seems silly to blame Google for the general trend.<p>Couldn&#x27;t care less for Feedburner&#x27;s attempt to monetize it. RSS is a protocol like email. Would I think positively about a service trying to monetize email?<p>The rest of the article is about various Google services dropping support for it.<p>If Google kills Gmail would we say Google killed email? It&#x27;s a nonsensical thought process.<p>Anecdotally I found it was Twitter that killed RSS. When it was new people were using it for the same purpose I was using RSS. To follow people and organizations.
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ashvardanian大约 1 年前
I believe the internet has gone full-circle - from curated lists and RSS feeds, to automated ranking, and now going back.<p>Almost all top-tier professionals I meet prefer very niche data-sources they trust (mostly individuals and personal blogs - not even organizations), occasionally augmenting them with automated crawls.<p>There is a lot of space for hybrid approaches and we are going to see a new generation of browsers and search engines. I don&#x27;t think Google can stop that.
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gamepsys大约 1 年前
RSS cuts out the middleman.<p>I remember sometime around 2007 I noticed people around me started using Google to visit websites they knew the URL of. Websites they visited frequently and could have been bookmarks. I thought it was incredibly lazy at the time. Google took advantage of this phenomenon to show more ads and to continue to train users on using their products. Often the user clicks on the ad purchased by the website they wanted to visit! Google has become the defacto middleman for the web.
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jedberg大约 1 年前
What killed RSS for me was when providers switched from putting the whole article into the feed to just putting one sentence or paragraph.<p>Often the first paragraph of an article is the intro so I had no idea if the article would be interesting. It killed my ability to quickly skim a bunch of articles.<p>I understand why the providers did it — they need the clicks to survive.<p>So I’d say Google <i>did</i> kill RSS but it had nothing to do with Reader and everything to do with the click based ad model they made the de facto standard.
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ooterness大约 1 年前
I&#x27;ve never forgiven them for shutting down Google Reader. Never again. Self-hosted open source software for life.
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metalrain大约 1 年前
People reading articles from RSS are not using Google search or Google browser, not being monetized by Google Ads. There is a reason.
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phailhaus大约 1 年前
The irony of this is that RSS is an open decentralized protocol, and we&#x27;re blaming Google for not hosting centralized infrastructure to make it accessible. I think this is evidence that RSS has fundamental usability issues that prevent it from going mainstream. Google realized this ages ago and ditched it.
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iLoveOncall大约 1 年前
Bad UX and UI choices have destroyed the adoption of RSS feeds.<p>RSS has always been a niche solution used only by technically knowledgeable people because of how it was always presented by RSS feed vendors.<p>Instead of having a button saying &quot;Install this browser extension and click here to get all new articles in your browser&quot;, the user is presented with an orange &quot;RSS&quot; button with no explanation of what it is and how to use it, that will show a weird XML file when clicked on by the average user.<p>How are people supposed to use that feature when it&#x27;s so obscure?<p>Better UX would have helped adoption and would have led to Google keeping the RSS button (and Google Reader probably).
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freediver大约 1 年前
I am great believer in RSS and think it is not going anywhere.<p>RSS powers the entire Kagi Small Web initiative. [1]<p>And Kagi is bringing back the RSS feed indicator in the Orion browser. [2]<p>Doing our share, one step at a time.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;kagi.com&#x2F;smallweb" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;kagi.com&#x2F;smallweb</a><p>[2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;kagi.com&#x2F;orion" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;kagi.com&#x2F;orion</a>
meindnoch大约 1 年前
Shutting down Google Reader was the peccatum originale of Google. The original sin. The phase transition from &quot;don&#x27;t be evil&quot; to evil. The moment when the sign flipped from net positive to net negative.
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stasge大约 1 年前
Unfortunately Mozilla has greatly contributed to this. At the time when Firefox had a good user share Mozilla instead of promoting RSS has decided to remove RSS&#x2F;Atom feed icon from the address bar because of their telemetry showing rare usage. While it is still possible to install the icon as well as live bookmarks as add-on to do that one needs to know of their existence.
josefresco大约 1 年前
I’m doing my part: Building websites with WordPress and every single one of them has an RSS feed. Makes me happy to know WP powers a significant part of the open web. I loathe every aspect of doing business online with Google. Analytics, ads, search console, the search engine, Google businesss: ALL terrible. While I can avoid them personally, if you do business online you just can’t.
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endisneigh大约 1 年前
There’s nothing stopping folks from using RSS feeds. Turns out people want to make money and rss feeds don’t do this easily. The end.
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javajosh大约 1 年前
If you were burned by Google with RSS, get ready to be burned by Google with LLMs.<p>Google (correctly) saw RSS as a challenge to the position it wants to be in, which is a replacement for URLs. It wants its search to intermediate all user interaction with the web, and RSS violates that in the steady-state. Google did the smart thing, which is to use it&#x27;s vast capital to embrace, extend, extinguish viable RSS tech first with Reader and then with Feedburner.<p>The interesting thing is that LLMs are another contender to intermediate users&#x27; relationships with URLs. An LLM that gives references-as-links within an answer is a much better usability story and I predict this usage alone will displace traditional search in the next couple of years. If past is prologue, I think we can expect Google to spend a great deal on LLMs, make internal projects, buy companies, and then shut them down. (Of course it may be that the Search team will pivot to an LLM UX, which would be remarkable but not entirely out-of-the-question since it&#x27;s compatible with Google&#x27;s bread-and-butter, search ads.)
IronWolve大约 1 年前
RSS was to the Internet as CSV is to Data. The great way to move data between applications. IFTTT is a great way to export content data, convert to RSS, and put the data(posts&#x2F;comments&#x2F;stories) where you wanted.<p>Even youtube had rss feeds for channels. Freeing the data was a core concept before all the megacorps or startups wanted a monopoly.
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hkt大约 1 年前
One of the key things about attacks on RSS is that it shows the need to be a little more aggressive when writing FLOSS: specifically, relying on parsing the pages as they&#x27;re presented to the end user, and RSS-ifying them. Twitter is a good example of where this happens. Youtube could be, too, if its RSS feeds get yanked.
bhickey大约 1 年前
Vic Gundotra killed Reader because he thought it was a competitor to Google+.
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garciasn大约 1 年前
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;LzFN0" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;LzFN0</a>
bawolff大约 1 年前
I&#x27;m tired of everyone blaming google for their woes. If your ecosystem is so fragile it will break because a single player bailed out, you were bound for failure anyways.
geor9e大约 1 年前
RSS destroys their walled-garden feed ad model. I got sick of it, and went back to RSS. I use Feedbro personally. It also supports Twitter (via nitter) and Facebook friends (public posts) without the ads and algorithms. Screenshot: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;i.imgur.com&#x2F;J1IDql9.png" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;i.imgur.com&#x2F;J1IDql9.png</a>
crtasm大约 1 年前
OpenRSS has a bug(?) which results in empty feeds if you send the useragent of <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;pypi.org&#x2F;project&#x2F;feedparser&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;pypi.org&#x2F;project&#x2F;feedparser&#x2F;</a><p>If they&#x27;re reading, please just offer normal RSS URLs without trying to do any detection or cleverness.
jll29大约 1 年前
This could be an explanation, but the old rule says &quot;Never ascribe to malice what you could attribute to incompetence or ignorance.&quot;<p>Based on what I have heard from people who work at Google (and read on the personal blogs of Googlers &amp; Xooglers), a perhaps equally plausible explanation is that Google management would be unable to pull something like that off because groups are too chaotic&#x2F;independent, and what is described by the OP would require coordinated action, but there isn&#x27;t an overall &quot;strategy&quot; (which is even true for companies much more organized than Google, sadly).
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steren大约 1 年前
&gt; The most recent incident was in May 2021, where Google announced they&#x27;re working on an update to Google Chrome that brings back RSS support. But there has been no word on an official launch since it was announced years ago. It&#x27;s unclear of what the implications of this feature will be.<p>The feature is launched. Base don my experience: Any site you &quot;follow&quot; will appear in the &quot;Following&quot; tab of the new tab page, and I have seen these sites also pop up in the feed of my Pixel phone (Google Now?)
Tomis02大约 1 年前
Blaming Google for going anti-RSS is like blaming the rack when stepping on it. What did people expect to happen?<p>If you&#x27;re looking someone to blame, blame the ones who evangelised Chrome and Google Reader when better alternatives existed. Back in the day we had Opera (the classic version) with amazing performance and built-in RSS reader. However, at the time, industry influencers promoted Chrome instead, a zero-feature browser with horrible performance (unless you had a relatively high-end PC with a multicore CPU, which was not the majority of users).<p>Many people (devs in particular, who should know better) use Chrome to this day. Oh well, the browser market is as democratic as they come, people vote with their usage. The conclusion is that people just don&#x27;t care.
npalli大约 1 年前
I wonder, if in retrospect, Google kept Google Reader if only to avoid the constant nagging they seem to receive about &quot;killing RSS&quot;. Been on the internet for decades now, I don&#x27;t think I ever missed or cared about this so-called assassination. Yet, every chance they get, there is some group of hardcore RSS enthusiasts who can&#x27;t keep talking about it. Very strange to me.
0xterran大约 1 年前
I recently made an alternative to RSS feeds tailored towards walled gardens like Instagram &amp; Twitter. It lets you set alerts when certain accounts&#x2F;pages post content. It&#x27;s called Alerts.boo<p>Not a full replacement for RSS feeds but useful if you want social media curation&#x2F;monitoring.
mmaunder大约 1 年前
Google has destroyed the Web by directing traffic from its SEPRPs to pages filled with their own ads that are stuffed with useless content to encourage scrolling and optimize for ranking. Google any recipe for details. Not sure if it’s any consolation that AI will at the very least level the playing field and give us more direct answers.
delduca大约 1 年前
Google Reader was the only web-based solution I managed to use for reading feeds. I tried several others and ended up purchasing Reeder, which supports not only RSS and Atom but also other sources like Twitter, YouTube, and Reddit.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;reederapp.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;reederapp.com&#x2F;</a>
ChrisArchitect大约 1 年前
(2023)<p>Yes, and...?<p>One of the net&#x27;s unsung&#x2F;unseen killer apps that was slowly pushed down by &#x27;social media&#x27;.<p>Reader&#x27;s been dead longer than it was alive.<p>Many contributing factors to environment, shifts of the day when it happened. Endlessly bringing it up shows lack of awareness of surroundings&#x2F;history. Also, other options&#x2F;filled void&#x2F;RSS not dead.
socrateslee大约 1 年前
Anyway, just note that Google do encourage RSS with the Google Discover feature<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;developers.google.com&#x2F;search&#x2F;docs&#x2F;appearance&#x2F;google-discover" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;developers.google.com&#x2F;search&#x2F;docs&#x2F;appearance&#x2F;google-...</a>
7sidedmarble大约 1 年前
There are a lot of us keeping RSS alive. I&#x27;ve been working on a very minimalist RSS reader in Phoenix LiveView for like a year now if anyone is interested in trying out another reader: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;catnip.vip" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;catnip.vip</a>
dctoedt大约 1 年前
Adding a plug for Readwise.io - I was a longtime Feedly user but switched because Readwise is more capable. I&#x27;m a paying subscriber but otherwise have no connection to the company.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;readwise.io&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;readwise.io&#x2F;</a>
sys_64738大约 1 年前
My biggest GOOG RSS surprise is that they&#x27;ve not killed youtu.be RSS feeds for channels.
FiddlerClamp大约 1 年前
I use Blogtrottr to get RSS clips for feeds by email. It&#x27;s great for sites that are updated very infrequently, and you can choose the frequency of emails for a feed, from a daily digest to as-it-happens. Yes, there are ads in the free plan.
ecocentrik大约 1 年前
Limited monetization potential stopped the adoption of RSS. Competition from social media feeds included a social factor and eventually allowed for a monetization solution that did not infringe on the content creators.
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mundiff大约 1 年前
Article doesn&#x27;t mention iGoogle personal homepage which they killed in 2014 I think. It was a way to show rss reeds on a Google homepage with a Google searchbar at the top. So very useful
MivLives大约 1 年前
What are people using for rss on mobile? I feel like that&#x27;s the biggest change, at least for me. The way I consume news moved from something I did on my laptop to something I did on my phone.
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gpspake大约 1 年前
Kinda funny how this is currently sharing the top 2 on hn with &quot;institutions try to preserve the problems to which they are the solution.&quot;
neycoda大约 1 年前
Ah, this is true power in allowing companies to keep too much of their high-bracket profits... destroying that which allows competition.
charcircuit大约 1 年前
I don&#x27;t see a point to revive RSS now that we have social media platforms like X which do a better job at providing feeds to people.
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tmaly大约 1 年前
I think someone could come along and create a great RSS reader in the same way Obsidian came along and built an amazing note taking app.
ddmma大约 1 年前
Feedburner was an amazing way to qualify websites popularity then became followers and likes trapped into social media.
joehx2大约 1 年前
Am I the only one who uses Outlook to read RSS feeds?<p>It&#x27;s a bit awkward to set up, but it works fine.
janmarsal大约 1 年前
Any good RSS feed for RSS feeds?
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ndgold大约 1 年前
I’m still bitter about this
mogoh大约 1 年前
Could ActivityPub replace RSS even though it is not intended to do so?
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Separo大约 1 年前
An evolution of RSS should have been the end game of social networks.
scarface_74大约 1 年前
NetNewsWire is great and it’s free and open source for iOS.
James_K大约 1 年前
I can&#x27;t help but wonder how much of this is intentional sabotage on the part of Google vs how much of it is just RSS itself dying because people don&#x27;t really like it. The opinions on HN likely don&#x27;t mirror those of the average person. I support RSS, but it seems a simple mailing list subscription is both technically and functionally superior. The article itself admits that Google benefits from RSS because it helps with indexing. I don&#x27;t see why Google would be invested in &quot;killing&quot; RSS, how they would benefit from it dying, or how their actions have actually contributed to it&#x27;s death. This all just seems very conspiratorial to me. The simplest explanation to this is that most people don&#x27;t really get what RSS is and would rather not use it when email is available and all the content they want is on Facebook anyway.
23B1大约 1 年前
I&#x27;d like to thank Google for incentivizing everyone to get away from them and onto more distributed platforms.<p>IMHO, we have a moral obligation to support open source as a function of freedom and democracy.
kazinator大约 1 年前
RSS is the victim of thousands of paper cuts. Examples:<p>- Craiglist: disabling RSS dealt it a blow. I was a big user of RSS for Craiglist searches. Having one simple, inbox-like dashboard where items of interest drip, and where you can delete ones you&#x27;re not interested in was great.<p>- Mastodon: doing RSS in an idiotic way. You subscribe to an RSS feed (e.g. for a hash tag) using your home instance ... but the links in the items take you to remote instances, where you have to jump through an annoying hoop to engage with them on your home instance.<p>- StackOverflow: ignoring a long-running bug whereby if you have an RSS reader in your browser pulling StackOverflow RSS feeds (that in and of themselves work great), you get logged out of StackOverflow. When you click on the items to navigate to them, you find you&#x27;re logged out.
nolist_policy大约 1 年前
And yet RSS works perfectly fine on Youtube.
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betimsl大约 1 年前
Good thing they&#x27;re failing at it :)
treflop大约 1 年前
I don’t think RSS ever had a chance.<p>I ran a site in high school and it was making bank from ads.<p>Why would I provide a feed that earned me no money?
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smsm42大约 1 年前
I think this article makes it to sound more of a conspiracy than it is. Yes, google does not pay much attention to rss and stopped meaningful investment in it a while ago. But I don&#x27;t think laying such charge as them destroying the rss adoption is warranted. Especially on the proof so thin as buying a company and 10 years later shutting down some services. Google has little interest in RSS, and that&#x27;s fine, it can do well enough without it.
chrisjj大约 1 年前
&gt; Oops! Something went wrong... &gt; We seem to be having some technical difficulties. Hang tight.
YVoyiatzis大约 1 年前
Genocidal tendencies, if you ask me.
ElonsNightmare大约 1 年前
shocked pikachu face
tandav大约 1 年前
Imagine Google removes RSS for YouTube channels
asim大约 1 年前
You know the question is whether an XML based standard is going to be suitable moving forward. I&#x27;m not saying JSON or something else are better but I do think we&#x27;re sort of seeing the decay, lack of support and slow removal of RSS across the web. Even still I found it to be really useful and my personal news reader news.mu.xyz is built using it but I do feel like for this stuff to progress we might end up seeing a new standard emerge. I won&#x27;t say it&#x27;s activity pub or something else. Just that the support is getting pulled from many places.
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