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The unwritten rules of negotiating with Meta

150 点作者 leeny大约 1 年前

25 条评论

mpeg大约 1 年前
Last year in a moment of career uncertainty I applied for a job at Meta, I think it was a M1 role in data engineering – I ended up giving up a few interviews in when I realised I still had 3 more interviews to go, I think for a total of 6, the recruiter didn&#x27;t really explain the process very well.<p>I found the whole process pretty dystopian – no idea what product you&#x27;ll be working on, they first give you a generic interview and then you get matched; the people you interview with are clearly very detached from you as a person (I&#x27;m sure it&#x27;s great to reduce bias in hiring, but it feels very weird) because they know they&#x27;re unlikely to ever interact with you again whether you get hired or not.<p>Also didn&#x27;t like that there was no talk of compensation range, so I wasn&#x27;t sure if they could even match my salary (I know they pay very low comp in the UK compared to US)
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burningChrome大约 1 年前
Great article.<p>The main takeaway is with any negotiating, its all about the information. Meta is trying to get as much information out of you and you&#x27;re trying to hedge that information in order to gain a favorable position.<p>I think the article points out some very good and effective means of managing the information to gain leverage to maximize your offer from Meta. There are some very good techniques outlined in the article which can be parlayed not just in your interactions with Meta, but any big company looking to hire you. The scheduling of interviews and time table for your offer are both techniques I&#x27;ve used in the past to gain a better offer from companies looking to hire me.
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leeny大约 1 年前
Author here. I said this in the post, and I&#x27;ll say it again here. If I hear from any reliable sources at Meta that I&#x27;m wrong, I&#x27;ll gladly retract and issue a public apology.
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pavel_lishin大约 1 年前
&gt; <i>Team matching. This can take days or weeks, depending on how many teams you speak to and how many conversations you have with the people on each team</i><p>&gt; <i>Getting those offers doesn’t start when you’ve received your Meta offer. It starts months before. Make sure that you get enough initial conversations with other FAANGs, FAANG-adjacent companies, and late-stage sexy startups to end up with at least one other offer, ideally at least two.</i><p>This is insane. This is literally months of work, just for the chance to maybe get a job, maybe with a team you&#x27;d like to work for, maybe with a salary that reflects the work you&#x27;ll be doing.<p>How badly do people want to work for Meta?
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LudwigNagasena大约 1 年前
Is it really a lowball offer if you can’t command higher compensation from any other company?
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saagarjha大约 1 年前
I’ve never really found it useful to hide the fact that you’re interviewing elsewhere from a recruiter. If anything, it often lets you align timelines and indicate your time constraints to them beforehand, rather than them trying to send you an exploding offer for no reason. And it often skips them giving you a garbage, below-market offer because it makes no sense to do that and then have you walk immediately when someone else offers $100k more.
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beckthompson大约 1 年前
Interesting article! I didn&#x27;t realize the choke hold Meta has on hiring at the moment. Sounds like they are really abusing it...
JohnMakin大约 1 年前
I honestly thought this was all common knowledge, but I guess that&#x27;s from friends having gone through meta process and myself as well. The only way I&#x27;ve seen people get super big starting packages at any of these FAANG&#x27;s is by leveraging multiple faang&#x27;s against each other. But good lord, that&#x27;s a lot of work.
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maxfurman大约 1 年前
So, to get decent (market rate) compensation from Meta, you need 1-3 job offers of similar prestige and comp level. But if you have those, why would you ever take a job at Meta?
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DonsDiscountGas大约 1 年前
So much &quot;negotiating&quot; advice just boils down to &quot;get a lot of companies interested in you&quot;. Which is certainly good advice, and maybe will encourage people to take a lot more interviews than they would have otherwise, but for most people it&#x27;s just not that helpful.
crazygringo大约 1 年前
The author calls Meta&#x27;s process &quot;reprehensible&quot;, but they seem to be acting like any large company when there are lots of people competing for fewer jobs. It&#x27;s pretty standard with FAANG (or whatever it&#x27;s called now) that they simply won&#x27;t negotiate over their offer unless you&#x27;ve got another better offer in hand.<p>But the advice of this article to &quot;make sure you have other offers&quot; is pretty much impossible to pull off in practice. If you have offers from startups, they&#x27;re generally going to be for less than Meta is offering in the first place. And if you have better offers from the rest of &quot;AANG&quot;, then the whole point is you can just <i>take one of them</i>. But this article starts with the premise that they&#x27;re not doing much hiring right now, so I don&#x27;t know how you&#x27;re supposed to get those offers.<p>And all of this ignores the fact that coordinating the <i>timing</i> of offers, so that you have an open offer from another company, <i>when</i> Meta makes you their offer, is virtually impossible. You have no idea, when you start interviewing with another company, if they&#x27;ll make you an offer in 3 days or 3 weeks or 2 months. And they generally give short deadlines as well.<p>So I don&#x27;t really get what this article is trying to achieve. What Facebook is doing is pretty standard for corporations in a powerful hiring position, and the advice to try to counter it is nearly impossible to pull off. This is just how capitalism and labor markets go.<p>But, this article is definitely useful so people know how the process is working right now.
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hacker_newz大约 1 年前
God this process sounds awful. Why would anyone want to work for a company like that?
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fatnoah大约 1 年前
It&#x27;s interesting to see how things have change. Granted, my sample size is 1 for negotiating with Meta a few years ago. In that, I had competing offers, but let the recruiter know up front that I wouldn&#x27;t share exact details other than company and level. The initial offer from Meta was greater than my asking, and after asking for more to get closer to parity with other offers, they went above that number as well.<p>Of course, that market looked nothing like this one.
crooked-v大约 1 年前
And here I am as some sap who hasn&#x27;t even gotten past the screening interview because I didn&#x27;t spend a couple of months first memorizing Leetcode problems.
jackblemming大约 1 年前
I don’t know why you would want to work for a company that treats you like this. I guess some people will put up with a lot for money.
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RagnarD大约 1 年前
First step: realize that Meta is an incredibly lousy company producing fantastically terrible products and coasting on momentum of the past. There was never a product as ripe for competitive disruption as Facebook, for example.
chatmasta大约 1 年前
There is some really excellent, concrete advice in this post. This is definitely a company that is on the side of candidates it works with.<p>The challenge with negotiation is that, like most things, the only way to get better at it is to practice. But a typical employee almost never gets to practice negotiating, other than once every couple years and maybe when buying a house.<p>Even if you&#x27;re in sales, or recruiting, and you negotiate every day, it&#x27;s still not the same as negotiating for your own salary. It&#x27;s better than nothing though.<p>IMO one of the best things you can do for your career (and life) is to spend some time in a position where you do a lot of negotiating. Maybe that means founding a startup, or maybe it means working for a car dealership. But the more you can practice this skill - because it <i>is</i> a skill - the more you&#x27;ll benefit from it throughout the rest of your life.<p>The best, most generally applicable advice I ever received about negotiating was while raising my first VC round. We got the first offer, so I asked our advisor what to do. He said &quot;make a market. Get another one.&quot; If you don&#x27;t have another offer, you&#x27;re not negotiating. You&#x27;re begging. ALWAYS get another offer. Yes, it sounds like &quot;draw the rest of the owl&quot; but it really is the one weird trick to winning a negotiation. Everything falls into place when you&#x27;ve got a market of offers. You can play them back and forth to maximize each of them, and then choose whichever comes out on top.<p>The other advice is to find the knobs you can turn. In employment negotiation that would be things like salary, equity, company stage, WFH policies. Use these knobs as &quot;justification&quot; when asking for a higher bid (which you might do multiple times as you go back and forth). &quot;Well, they&#x27;re offering $50k lower but they&#x27;re WFH...&quot;<p>Oh and of course, never say yes to the first offer. Everything is negotiable and the sharpest counterparties expect you to negotiate, so if you don&#x27;t, you&#x27;re accepting their intentionally low offer.<p>(The blog post also has a footnote alluding to, and warning against, the sociopathic solution to this, which is to simply lie or exaggerate about your other offers. Personally I would never do this, because it&#x27;s a small world and you don&#x27;t want word to spread. But let&#x27;s say you think you can get away with it or don&#x27;t mind getting caught. In this case if they call your bluff, you&#x27;ll either need to fold (and they&#x27;ll eventually see you didn&#x27;t end up working somewhere else), or go deeper into the fraud by making a fake offer letter. It&#x27;s never a good sign when you&#x27;re going deeper into fraud.)
pompino大约 1 年前
&gt;Meta vs. other FAANGs, and that lets us guess (pretty accurately) how much hiring is actually happening at these companies.<p>What is the data to support this?
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smrtinsert大约 1 年前
Hilarious, glad I&#x27;ll never need to work for them.
jobs_throwaway大约 1 年前
&gt; You might say, “Aline, why can’t I just make up offers?” We could never, in good conscience, advise that. It’s unethical, and though I’d argue that while Meta’s negotiation practices are also unethical, that’s not the way to win. Outside of ethical considerations, while the risks of getting caught are low, they’re not zero. Lying about offers, in our mind, is the last refuge of the incompetent.<p>Yeah I&#x27;m just gonna take my chances on that one
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mloncode大约 1 年前
Good article
andrewmcwatters大约 1 年前
So, what’s the process like for an experienced engineer (say over a decade in the industry) who has wholesale avoided FAANG and FAANG-likes and stuck to other S&amp;P 500s because they wouldn’t tolerate the dysfunctional interview process at these tech companies in the past?<p>And can you even get one of these jobs outside of California? I would not leave Arizona as a home owner for this nonsense.
hcks大约 1 年前
The FAANG dream truly is dead
photochemsyn大约 1 年前
Funny how people still call the corporate conglomerate tech outfits &#x27;FAANG&#x27; apparently because &#x27;fang it, bro&#x27; sounds tough and cool and predatory in the comic-book sense - but really they&#x27;re steadily transforming themselves into their monopolistic predecessors (e.g. Ma Bell), so a new acronym - MAMAA (Meta&#x2F;Amazon&#x2F;Microsoft&#x2F;Alphabet&#x2F;Apple) - is needed.<p>Also, &#x27;Homo sapiens&#x27; should be renamed &#x27;Homo ignis&#x27;. Sign the petition.
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tomcar288大约 1 年前
I like the fact that the author gives so many valuable tips on how to play this situation.<p>There&#x27;s an even bigger over supply of labor now more than ever. So, META is using this to their advantage. The author states that this strategy is short sighted and will show future attrition from Meta because eventually the industry demand for SWE will recover. I&#x27;m just not sure about that last part. Musk has shown that you can profitably run a software company with 80% less staff. I would imagine other companies will aspire to this goal as well, especially now that the days of crazy growth are over. We&#x27;re no longer in a growth economy anymore.<p>EDIT: I have not confirmed that X is profitable. And I don&#x27;t know their numbers. but, I assumed after laying off 70 to 80% of staff, it probably should be right?
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