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New jet engine enables efficiency at every speed for cheaper orbital launches

164 点作者 thoughtpeddler大约 1 年前

21 条评论

pfdietz大约 1 年前
An air breathing engine is used early in a launch. That means it's in competition with a rocket propelled first stage. But first stages are the least sensitive part of a rocket to Isp. They are more sensitive to thrust/weight ratio of the engines, and on that metric air breathing engines are grossly inferior to rockets.
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japanuspus大约 1 年前
Everyday Astronaut has a recent video on &quot;why don&#x27;t we launch rockets from jets&quot;[0]. The video obviously does not include reference to the engine mentioned here -- but I think most of the points still stand.<p>In particular - orbit is mainly about going fast, not so much about getting up high - your second stage will pay a structural price for allowing air-launch loads, and this structure needs to be carried to orbit - rockets are *big*<p>[0]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=AAt9WDQEMoA" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=AAt9WDQEMoA</a>
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kulor大约 1 年前
An interview (1) with the founder Ian Brooke was illuminating on this jet and the wider opportunity it presents. He sheds a lot of light on the problem space (no pun intended) and how it can be tackled whilst being commercially viable. I particularly enjoyed geeking out the pros and cons of turbo-fan, RAM and SCRAM jets, rockets and the limits of physics.<p>He&#x27;s oozing Elon vibes in ambition, first-principle thinking, deep domain knowledge and commercial intelligence. One to watch.<p>1. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;1stPrinciplesFM&#x2F;status&#x2F;1762945809572925492&#x2F;photo&#x2F;1" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;1stPrinciplesFM&#x2F;status&#x2F;17629458095729254...</a>
JumpCrisscross大约 1 年前
I&#x27;m sceptical but optimistic.<p>The problem with turbofans (the most efficient jet engine at high subsonic speeds) is the fan, compressor and turbine have different optimal speeds. (The fan wants to spin slow to promote a high bypass ratio without tearing the blades apart while the compressor and turbine want to run at full power.)<p>The conventional solution is additional compressor and turbine stages. The novel one is the geared turbofan. Both, to my knowledge, are tuned for a specific airspeed and altitude. What these guys seem to be getting at is driving the compressor separately. That doesn&#x27;t decouple the turbine from the fan, but if they&#x27;re racing to Mach 3 and then dumping off, they don&#x27;t need a fan. Altogether, there is an efficiency threshold past which a turbojet first-stage (probably rocket-supplemented) makes sense.<p>Where I&#x27;m sceptical is in choosing launch as the beachhead. If you have a better turbojet--particularly one pitching efficiency over thrust--you should be building drones. Probably missiles. You&#x27;ll get more build opportunities at a smaller scale, lengthening your runway and speeding up your learning curve. You have more customers and a cleaner path to export. You get to segregate the subsonic and supersonic markets in engineering time and capital deployment. The only reason to go for space first are passion over practicality, a need for vaporware-insensitive investors or an additional design advantage not yet disclosed.
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JoeAltmaier大约 1 年前
Expect to see every kind of innovation from here on out, as the launch ecosystem fills in every &#x27;ecological niche&#x27;.<p>Sure this isn&#x27;t a direct competitor to {whatever pundits argue}. But if it works for even one kind of mission, then in this modern space age, it has a place.<p>Like road vehicles, there are sedans, commuters, offroad, and heavy haulers, heck even trains. One vehicle will never do it all.
wenyuanyu大约 1 年前
Not sure if I understood correctly, but does this mean that instead of going up vertically, with this engine, the &quot;rocket&quot; should fly near horizontally and stay in the atmosphere at the right altitude until it reached the highest possible speed given the air resistance, and then lift up by the 2nd stage rocket engines?
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marze大约 1 年前
Andrew Cote gives the missing details here:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;Andercot&#x2F;status&#x2F;1763063321857757210" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;Andercot&#x2F;status&#x2F;1763063321857757210</a>
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thot_experiment大约 1 年前
Press X to doubt. I&#x27;ll believe it when I see it.<p>&quot;The key insight is to use electric motors to drive a compressor&quot;<p>Uhhhh what? This just does not seem like a good approach, admittedly most of my aerospace knowledge comes from KSP and Scott Manley videos, but the atmosphere thins out pretty damn quick and if they&#x27;re saying that they can get a benefit on a first stage by getting their oxidizer from atmo in exchange for a bunch of hardware and batteries color me extremely skeptical. This is a field that has had it&#x27;s problems attacked by a lot of very smart people and the even if this made sense (to my amateur eye it doesn&#x27;t) the devil is in the details.<p>Hope I&#x27;m wrong though!
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supportengineer大约 1 年前
What happened to the Reaction Engines &#x2F; Skylon &#x2F; SABRE?<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=6062972">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=6062972</a>
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p1mrx大约 1 年前
&gt; The key insight is to use electric motors to drive a compressor<p>Tech Ingredients made a &quot;hybrid jet engine&quot; based on this concept in 2018: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=_ax0pI4Jp18&amp;t=775s" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=_ax0pI4Jp18&amp;t=775s</a>
thoughtpeddler大约 1 年前
Can anyone speculate as to what kind of advancements in precision machining might enable this sort of new jet engine design?<p>I feel, as a layperson when it comes to aerospace, that so much of the innovation is bounded by advancements (or lack thereof) in machining.
dredmorbius大约 1 年前
As Nitter is broken and Twitter has ... numerous issues, is there a non-Twitter source for this?
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rich_sasha大约 1 年前
If the first stage is a SpaceX-style reusable stage, is there any benefit to a jet engine? I suppose perhaps it is more reusable, AFAIR the SoaceX stages have short-ish lifespans.
jvm___大约 1 年前
Someone made the positive version of &quot;Unsafe at any speed&quot;
mike_d大约 1 年前
We already have the technology for cheap orbital launches. SpaceRyde was developing a balloon that would take payloads to the edge of space then use a small rocket to get it the last little bit and do orbit positioning.<p>Unfortunately they got shut down by NIMBYs. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;spacenews.com&#x2F;noise-complaints-help-bring-down-launch-startup-spaceryde&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;spacenews.com&#x2F;noise-complaints-help-bring-down-launc...</a>
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EricE大约 1 年前
Sounds about as practical as an electric supercharger. I would love to be wrong; I guess time will tell.
inamberclad大约 1 年前
Why would you use an aerospace for this when conventional turbojets use an articulating nozzle? In fact, they&#x27;d be better off trying to develop and sell an articulating nozzle for a conventional rocket than a whole engine such as this
PBnFlash大约 1 年前
This seems to not have consideration for hypersonic air flow. If this is just a lifting engine it can only provide a small fraction of delta v.
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MilStdJunkie大约 1 年前
Rotating Detonation Engine of some kind? I&#x27;ve had a bit of a thrust-crush on that configuration since I heard they were working on the fluid dynamics to make them work. Pulse Detonation Engines are cool and all, but no one wants a kilometer of tailpipe hanging off the ass end of their vehicle.<p>That fluid problem really is the Achille&#x27;s heel of RDE, because it requires such a clean airflow in the thing, in order to synchronize the blast waves. The longest burns to date, so far as I know, have been with LOX.
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jacknews大约 1 年前
&quot;The key insight is to use electric motors to drive a compressor.&quot;<p>Is this for the air intake? There must be a speed limit to this surely, and then you have to close intake and switch to rocket mode or something?<p>And then there&#x27;s the weight of the batteries and motors - I guess you could re-purpose those as oxidizer pump or whatever maybe.<p>And is that an aerospike? A nice idea, but problematic for thermals.<p>I mean I assume they have something working, but I&#x27;m skeptical of the concept.
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akamaka大约 1 年前
I don’t usually post a middlebrow dismissal, but using an electric compressor is a fairly obvious idea which often gets discussed and immediately dismissed, so there’s not much interesting here until they reveal more of their design.<p>Typical discussion: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;aviation.stackexchange.com&#x2F;questions&#x2F;90862&#x2F;are-there-hybrid-electric-combustion-turbine-engines-where-only-the-compressor-i" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;aviation.stackexchange.com&#x2F;questions&#x2F;90862&#x2F;are-there...</a>
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