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The internet turned into a crowded mall. Now you need a corner shop

114 点作者 maguay大约 1 年前

14 条评论

eloisius大约 1 年前
I try exploring the &#x27;alt-internet&#x27; or indyweb or whatever we call it from time to time. I&#x27;ve messed around on Mastodon instances, but it never really clicked with me. I never really used Twitter though, either, so not surprised. I did enjoy old Instagram around the time stories came out because it was just my friends sharing less-polished pictures of what they were doing, so I thought maybe I would enjoy Pixelfed. I played with Scuttlebutt for a while and found it the most fun, just a pain in the ass to use.<p>However, they all have a similar problem. There&#x27;s almost no one except bored tech people on them. Don&#x27;t get me wrong, I think retro computing is cool, and I like seeing people&#x27;s DIY hardware creations occasionally, but it&#x27;s only a small niche. The corner shop is boring if it&#x27;s almost always empty, and the only people that ever show up are other corner shop proprietors or corner shop enthusiasts. At the same time I&#x27;m aware that attracting the rhetorical racist uncle from Facebook over to your Mastodon instance is not the goal, and it wouldn&#x27;t make it better to have wider appeal.<p>There are very few non-tech-specific old web holdouts that I know of. One of my favorites is Crazy Guy on a Bike [1]. It&#x27;s a special purpose site, forum, blogging platform, etc. specifically for bike touring, all run on donations by one crazy guy writing Perl like it&#x27;s 1998. It&#x27;s been around for over 20 years, and as cool as it is, it&#x27;s also fixed scene that isn&#x27;t growing or attracting new members. As people move on and donations dry up I&#x27;m sure it&#x27;ll disappear.<p>I don&#x27;t want it to be so, but I feel like whether you&#x27;re at the mall or the corner store, the internet is just a boring place now, and yet I spend more time with it than almost anything else. Probably says more about my age and the fact that AIM chat and quirky HTML sites were a part of my childhood than anything else.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.crazyguyonabike.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.crazyguyonabike.com&#x2F;</a>
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kulor大约 1 年前
My HN of the past was k10k[1], SurfStation[2] and a raft of niche web design communities. What made these communities special is that they had unashamedly indulgent and whimsical chrome around the content, more akin to a magazine.<p>It felt alive.<p>Around this time it was hard to pull off complex designs on the web as internet connections were slow and HTML, JS &amp; CSS were primitive. I think precisely because of these constraints, a sense of awe &amp; wonder proliferated when people pulled off a fancy interface which led to an explosion in peacocking. It&#x27;s what dragged me into the world of crafting high-quality user experiences from the positive reinforcement loops that were embraced and encouraged.<p>Some communities exist today like Dribbble that possess some of the aforementioned traits but they feel soulless or just self-promotion machines. Then again, there may be millions of relevant communities that exist that I haven&#x27;t stumbled upon, yet.<p>In a world of post-scarcity, it almost feels necessary to create artificial bounds to encourage these esoteric &amp; competitive communities.<p>Maybe finding, creating and contributing to magazines is a better metaphorical aspiration than a corner shop.<p>1. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.webdesignmuseum.org&#x2F;gallery&#x2F;kaliber10000-2003" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.webdesignmuseum.org&#x2F;gallery&#x2F;kaliber10000-2003</a><p>2. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.webdesignmuseum.org&#x2F;golden-age-of-web-design&#x2F;surfstation-2002" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.webdesignmuseum.org&#x2F;golden-age-of-web-design&#x2F;sur...</a><p>Edit: formatting
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DeathArrow大约 1 年前
&gt;But the trick of Hacker News, the thing that keeps you going back, is that it covers such a wide range of interests.<p>I&#x27;d argue that big part of the success is the way it&#x27;s constructed. You always have fresh stuff on top, and you are encouraged to take part in discussing them, as opposed to regular forums where people can discuss on the same topic for years or decades.<p>Reddit and 4chan work the same.<p>People have short attention span, they always want something new and they are after instant gratification.<p>I enjoy both types of forums, the ones where you see mostly new content and ones where you can discuss whatever topic interests you, as long as you like and as long as you have discussion partners.
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cangeroo大约 1 年前
But why <i>did</i> forums die? Was it bad UX? Were feeds of kittens more interesting and addictive than sequential debate? In particular, Reddit etc. are many-to-one (one post, many comments), where a forum thread are sequential pages of comments. And in that sense, perhaps there is no obligation to understand the entire conversation to participate, you just react to the OP.<p>If single-topic Facebook Groups &#x2F; sub-reddits exist, then why is the internet &quot;crowded&quot;? Is the problem not solved? Again, is the UX broken, and what&#x27;s the alternative?<p>I&#x27;m very interested in this problem.<p>Any recommended literature? In particular on the topic of social dynamics, herd behavior, and what we&#x27;ve learned <i>not</i> to do from the last 20 years of forums and social networks.
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samsquire大约 1 年前
I enjoy a website called halfbakery<p>It&#x27;s not wise to wonder why things aren&#x27;t good anymore. The zeitgeist of what people value is different to what it was in the 90s.<p>I want to make and do good things so that&#x27;s what I focus on writing about or programming.<p>Make good things and share them. If you don&#x27;t value good then you get the fruit of it.
rglover大约 1 年前
&gt; What isn&#x27;t rare isn&#x27;t valuable, and there&#x27;s never been inflation as exponential as there is in today&#x27;s digital property market.<p>Why I recently put a post-it above my desk that says &quot;think boutique, mofo.&quot;<p>If you&#x27;re indie&#x2F;DIY, the only way to stand out moving forward will be rarity [1].<p>[1] &quot;You don&#x27;t want to be the best at what you do, you want to be the only one.&quot; - Jerry Garcia
JohnFen大约 1 年前
I don&#x27;t think the internet needs more corner shops, even. What the internet needs is more parks and backyards. Spaces where real people interact with real people without the the burden of commerce weighing everything down.
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mancerayder大约 1 年前
I&#x27;m an old BBS user and the generation that saw the world turn to the commercializing Internet in real time.<p>From a message forum perspective, what kept intelligent discussion and thoughtfulness&#x2F;patient writing going was simply that there was a higher barrier to entry (knowledge) and fewer people. It was also not easy to use the phone to write a message, much less do much of anything online. You had to use a PC with a modem, at a minimum. And FIDOnet etc required a BBS that had a batch job to go off and sync messages.<p>Today it takes three seconds to post a short message that millions will read. You see celebrities do this all the time, saying something regretful because it was on a whim. But Reddit is full of low quality, quick replies that self-referentially try to re inforce or repeat meme joke. Or mic-drop dismiss someone else&#x27;s perspective.<p>Almost no Reddit forum isn&#x27;t full of what feels like spam, but isn&#x27;t - it&#x27;s people expressing their dumb one-liner feelings thinking it&#x27;s funny. And apparently it&#x27;s hilarious because it gets upvoted leading most threads to be completely unusable for information or challenging ideas.<p>Then there are the &#x27;hot takes&#x27; with incredible speculation and confident views that aren&#x27;t challenged intelligently but could do.<p>I do miss older times<p>HN is the closest thing to them, but suffers from a lot of anonymity. I recognize perhaps 3-4 users in all the time I&#x27;ve been here.
sebtron大约 1 年前
Very good article. It&#x27;s nice for once to read a piece about the state of the web with a glimpse of optimism in it.
raytopia大约 1 年前
A random thought I had while reading this (specifically about the the physical location) is I wonder if there&#x27;s a way to limit your website&#x2F;server to a local region. Similar to how BBS were back in the day.
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DeathArrow大约 1 年前
I guess it&#x27;s hard to come back from mega malls to mom and pop stores.<p>Switching from globalized giants like Amazon to small specialized shops might be hard. Also is switching from Facebook to some small website.
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kazinator大约 1 年前
&gt; Now you need a corner shop<p>Problem with this analogy is: corner shops suck. They have poor selection, prices and service. If just one of these three fundamentals is poor, you have a reason to go elsewhere.
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countWSS大约 1 年前
&gt; Ctrl-F Lemmy<p>Lemmy is the current thing if you want to compete with big platforms like Reddit and host it on your own: Fediverse is the &quot;network of corner shops&quot;.
verisimi大约 1 年前
The wider internet is pretty dead to me - is it much more than a bunch of corporate shop fronts? It&#x27;s largely become TV, or the mall. You have to work hard to get something that&#x27;s interesting. And credit to hacker news, this is still one of the places where real people share interesting information.