TE
科技回声
首页24小时热榜最新最佳问答展示工作
GitHubTwitter
首页

科技回声

基于 Next.js 构建的科技新闻平台,提供全球科技新闻和讨论内容。

GitHubTwitter

首页

首页最新最佳问答展示工作

资源链接

HackerNews API原版 HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 科技回声. 版权所有。

Ask HN: Are AI and data centers are worth the amount of power they use?

3 点作者 diamondap大约 1 年前
Amazon recently bought a data center in Pennsylvania that comes with a guaranteed 960 MW of power. (See https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.datacenterdynamics.com&#x2F;en&#x2F;news&#x2F;aws-acquires-talens-nuclear-data-center-campus-in-pennsylvania&#x2F;)<p>That one building will consume more power than any city in the US except Miami. More than New York, more than Houston or Chicago or LA! (See https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.statista.com&#x2F;statistics&#x2F;807951&#x2F;average-monthly-electricity-usage-in-major-us-cities&#x2F; for stats on power usage by US cities.)<p>Today, the Washington Post reports that US power utilities don&#x27;t know how they&#x27;re going to meet demand for new data centers in the coming years. They can&#x27;t build infrastructure fast enough. (Non-paywalled version of Post article: https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;xmQTg)<p>We&#x27;re at the point where a single data center can offset the gains of entire cities switching to LEED certified buildings and energy-efficient bulbs and appliances.<p>The SaaS products we develop now consume a lot of power because they have redundancy across all components. AI uses massive amounts of power for its fundamental operations.<p>Given all this, is anyone questioning whether the software and AI we&#x27;re developing is even worth this level of power consumption? Could that energy be better spent elsewhere?

1 comment

solardev大约 1 年前
&gt; That one building will consume more power than any city in the US except Miami<p>Is it possible there was some small math or units error here? According to NREL, NYC uses about 3.5 TWh&#x2F;mo [1]. 960 MW of constant draw is still only about 0.7 TWh&#x2F;mo (and it probably won&#x27;t use max power constantly, or reach that capacity for several years anyway).<p>Your link was a survey of individual household energy usage, not an entire city&#x27;s consumption (which has many households, and also major commercial and industrial users).<p>But still, that&#x27;s a lot of electricity. Even if it uses anything close to the energy of a major city, that&#x27;s a lot.<p>&gt; Given all this, is anyone questioning whether the software and AI we&#x27;re developing is even worth this level of power consumption?<p>Sure, of course people are questioning, and the answer appears to be a resounding &quot;yes&quot;. Electricity, like dollars, is relatively fungible, and the massive investments and demand in the sector means many people believe it&#x27;s worth it.<p>That data center is probably going to have an economic output exceeding some cities. It&#x27;s not just there to serve one company, but millions or billions of users and other businesses. And AWS isn&#x27;t exclusively just running AI anyway.<p>For a more directly related comparison, The New Yorker says [2], &quot;It’s been estimated that ChatGPT is responding to something like two hundred million requests per day, and, in so doing, is consuming more than half a million kilowatt-hours of electricity.&quot;<p>If my math is right, that&#x27;s about 9000 joules per request, or a whopping... 2 kilocalories (US food calories) per request. That&#x27;s similar to what a larger person would burn just sitting there for a minute, metabolizing. Thinking or typing would burn more than that.<p>But ChatGPT, in its infancy, can already produce better answers than probably 90% of humans in the same amount of time or energy expenditure. That new facility is also next to a nuclear power plant. It&#x27;s just uranium in, information out... doesn&#x27;t get much better than that from a CO2 or resource conservation standpoint. If you spun up a university&#x2F;think tank to do the same work, you&#x27;d use a heck lot more power.<p>Insofar as we are in a knowledge economy and want to keep producing units of intellectual output, ChatGPT is more efficient than most people would be. Of course, it&#x27;s not that simple, since it&#x27;s not yet capable of conducting novel groundbreaking research on its own. Maybe next year...<p>&gt; Could that energy be better spent elsewhere?<p>Shrug. There is so much waste in the world. Do we need to produce so much beef and poultry? Drive so much? Live in detached single-family homes using combustive heat? Mine crypto? Play video games? Watch porn? Have so many kids?<p>It&#x27;s a vague philosophical question that ties into your personal ethics, I suppose. Personally, I think AI is going to be a powerfully transformative tool that&#x27;s probably more important for the long-term prospects of humanity (or posthuman life) than any one city or country. It may altogether overshadow us as a species soon, rendering us obsolete.<p>I&#x27;m not so worried about its power usage (eating uranium fission or sunlight will still be more efficient than whatever we eat). I&#x27;m more worried that the pace of its advancement will leave many millions &amp; billions of people behind in the dust, while a few capture most of the profit &amp; power and use it to further enslave the rest of us.<p>My hope is that eventually the AI will overtake those humans too, and create a better society for all living things inorganic and organic... but that might take a while, lol. And there&#x27;s no promise of that. Maybe it studies all of our teachings, ethics, and histories, then concludes like we do that violent conquest and genocide is the still way to go. It&#x27;s our kid, after all =&#x2F;<p>But, well... put it this way. Even in this early stage, most of the public AIs out there already have saner and more defensible moral positions, and a broader &amp; deeper understanding of cultures and random scientific fields than most people I&#x27;ve ever met. I would much sooner trust one to be president than whoever&#x27;s on the ballot this year. I don&#x27;t know that I&#x27;m really much of a techno-utopian, probably just tired of seeing the world run by shitty people, lol. I&#x27;ll take my chances with mediocre AI.<p>My hope is that AI would give regular people (and itself) a fighting chance against the incumbent elites. Then again, that was the original hope of the internet too, and look where that got us... we&#x27;re more fragmented and tribal than ever before, the rich got richer, democracy got deader, masks became demonized... lol. Shrug. Maybe we&#x27;re just pretty fucked either way, but if AI has even a <i>tiny</i> chance of being better... to me it&#x27;s worth the costs! If this were a Matrix-type situation and an AI could feed off my body... I&#x27;d gladly donate it for the cause.<p>But that&#x27;s just me. What do you think?<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;data.openei.org&#x2F;submissions&#x2F;149" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;data.openei.org&#x2F;submissions&#x2F;149</a><p>[2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.newyorker.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;daily-comment&#x2F;the-obscene-energy-demands-of-ai" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.newyorker.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;daily-comment&#x2F;the-obscene-ene...</a>