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How GitHub replaced SourceForge as the dominant code hosting platform

176 点作者 fosterfriends大约 1 年前

36 条评论

Jenk大约 1 年前
After skim reading I couldn&#x27;t see it mentioned, but when SourceForge started bundling malware[0][1] into the software they hosted, it was their death toll.<p>[0]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;neverworkintheory.org&#x2F;2022&#x2F;04&#x2F;21&#x2F;decline-of-sourceforge.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;neverworkintheory.org&#x2F;2022&#x2F;04&#x2F;21&#x2F;decline-of-sourcefo...</a><p>[1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=31110206">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=31110206</a><p>As my memory recalls it, that triggered an exodus to Google Code, and whilst GH was gaining traction it was somewhat in their shadow. When Google announced they were going to kill Code that was the blessing for GH.
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markphip大约 1 年前
Something this misses is that the mentality of OSS was just different before GitHub.<p>The thought from the original growth of OSS was that it would be more about the community than the code. So OSS would be a series of communities that would each have their own &quot;identity&quot; for their community. There were big OSS foundations like Apache and Eclipse. Sun had several like java.net, OpenOffice.org and netbeans.org. Gnome had their own place etc.<p>Like Sun, other enterprises like HP, Oracle and IBM were setting up their own communities for their projects and to collaborate with partners.<p>And then as the post touches on there were sites like SourceForge, Tigris.org, Google Code and Microsoft had something too (CodePlex?). These sites were places projects might spin up if they did not belong at one of the other foundations and wanted a place to host their code for free. Of these SourceForge was often used for distribution of binaries due to its vast mirror network and often that was all that was hosted there and the project was elsewhere.<p>Anyway, until GitHub sprang up and started to consolidate all the OSS in one place, I do not think anyone else was even really trying to do this. Obviously the rise of git played a big role in this. This change fueled the growth of OSS but it did kind of come at the cost of losing out on some of the community aspects that existed before in the mailing lists and forums of these other places. Now collaboration all happens in PR&#x27;s and Issue and is often just between a small handful of people.
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Almondsetat大约 1 年前
Sourceforge still looks like a scam website. I can&#x27;t really put my finger on it, but even if a project is &quot;officially&quot; hosted on sourceforge to me it looks like a random guy&#x27;s Mediafire download link
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stevekemp大约 1 年前
My overriding memories of SourceForge was that it was slow, buggy, and hard to use.<p>There were mailing lists, issue-trackers, forums, and similar things but each page load took like five seconds and the site was ugly.<p>I switched from using it after it got a reputation for wrapping downloads with malware, or with &quot;toolbar helpers&quot;, etc. I&#x27;m sure the projects had to sign up to it at the start, but it always felt abusive.<p>Back then there was some discovery options, but of course I browsed freshmeat[.net] back in the day to see announcements of new releases, or new projects.<p>Github won for being useful and awesome, but also SourceForge lost because of self-sabotage, stagnation, and neglect.<p>(Wasn&#x27;t there a buyout at some point? With Slashdot&#x2F;others being bought by Dice? I know SF.net has changed hands a couple of times, but that was the first one I remember in 2012 or so? That probably didn&#x27;t help)
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softwaredoug大约 1 年前
There just wasn’t an appreciation for version control - and a lot of practices - at most companies until the mid to late 2000s. And I remember a lot of dev effort was spent dealing with internal SVN servers sitting in a closet. And other infra to do nightly builds etc.<p>Management and IT didn’t understand why they would want these things. Very few companies internalized these practices and usually learned the hard way to adopt them.<p>So back then these were somewhat new and radical ideas. But along comes GitHub, focusing on massive ease of use, and outsource an annoying hassle of most dev teams.<p>At the same time it was becoming more common to use open source libraries at work. But only sporadically and cautiously. I remember the work to get Boost (C++ lib) approved by legal. And that’s an extremely mainstream library. Often you would have to purchase or just write a lot of foundational code yourself.<p>So making a hosting solution with all these bells and whistles, but easy to learn, while also making it possible to discover code was fundamentally life altering for software engineering.
vundercind大约 1 年前
- Sourceforge had become terrible in multiple ways. They weren’t actually a competitor anymore with any competently-run hosting site.<p>- lightweight site, no ads<p>- either had tons of features sourceforge didn’t or sourceforge’s site was bad enough I never noticed the features<p>- gave me, and companies, a reason to create an account and actually <i>engage</i> with it—I think maybe sourceforge was one of those sites that required login for larger downloads (hazy recollection, may be wrong) but I certainly never used it for anything else, if I had an account. GitHub? Issue tracker on repos for software you use, free hosting even just for unimportant junk repos (all I’ve ever had, myself), maybe sending the odd PR, having an account is nice and they didn’t even need to break out the stick to make it nice (though now they have, because normal and non-aggressive use of their site will get you rate-limited very fast without an account—jerks, forcing me to log in even if I’m just searching for something real quick and don’t need any logged-in features)
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jasode大约 1 年前
A few notable projects where the canonical repo is still on SourceForge instead of moving to Github:<p>- LAME mp3 : <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;sourceforge.net&#x2F;projects&#x2F;lame&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;sourceforge.net&#x2F;projects&#x2F;lame&#x2F;</a><p>- KeePass : <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;sourceforge.net&#x2F;projects&#x2F;keepass&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;sourceforge.net&#x2F;projects&#x2F;keepass&#x2F;</a><p>(Some people keep asking the KeePass developer to move to Github but he doesn&#x27;t want to because <i>&quot;I&#x27;m not going to maintain a version control system.&quot;</i> : <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;sourceforge.net&#x2F;p&#x2F;keepass&#x2F;discussion&#x2F;329221&#x2F;thread&#x2F;97110c29&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;sourceforge.net&#x2F;p&#x2F;keepass&#x2F;discussion&#x2F;329221&#x2F;thread&#x2F;9...</a>)<p>Any other notable examples besides those 2?
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hiAndrewQuinn大约 1 年前
&gt;even up until 2010, many companies were still hosting code on SVN<p>I spent part of today choreographing the first part of a massive 30,000,000 LOC SVN to Git migration for my employer with ESR&#x27;s (phenomenal!) `reposurgeon`. Never underestimate the long tail of database usage, even code data. (Any port in a storm, of course, I&#x27;ll take Subversion than no VC at all any day of the week.)<p>Learning this aggressively and increasingly niche skillset is why I wrote <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;andrew-quinn.me&#x2F;reposurgeon&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;andrew-quinn.me&#x2F;reposurgeon&#x2F;</a> earlier this week. I had trouble even finding SVN repos in the wild to practice conversion on.
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psanford大约 1 年前
It was always my opinion that Github&#x27;s killer feature was putting repositories under user namespaces. Its hard to imagine but before Github you had to ask SourceForge politely if you could have a given project name. Just the ability to make your own projects without needing to ask anyone seems so obvious now, but really was a game changer at the time. This is also then deeply tied to the idea that forking repositories should be easy.<p>I&#x27;m glad to see that the article includes this in their history.
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nottorp大约 1 年前
Sourceforge entshitified before the term was in fashion.<p>Let&#x27;s not forget git came up. It may have a lot of sins but it&#x27;s better for distributed work. Utility libs and software switched to git, other devs got used to it and started to use it themselves...<p>Then a few git hosting solutions showed up. That not only allowed hosting public projects but you could also host your private commercial (or just private) projects on them. Either free or for pay.<p>Then github offered unlimited private repos with unlimited users for like $9&#x2F;month. That was before the MS acquisition.<p>End of story...
PaulDavisThe1st大约 1 年前
The main lesson I took from the SF-&gt;GH transition was to never, ever put my marbles in a bag owned by someone else again. I&#x27;m happy that GH is there to act as a totally public repo-website, and will happily auto-mirror to it, but I&#x27;ll always self-host when it comes to the canonical repository for any project I&#x27;m nominally in charge of.
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aduffy大约 1 年前
I remember using GitHub as a teenager, circa 2010. I, not understanding git because I was an idiot, accidentally force pushed and deleted my history.<p>I emailed the support email explaining the situation, and within a few hours got a reply from Chris saying that he’d fixed my repo, along with some advice about how to avoid this issue in the future.
mgkimsal大约 1 年前
Sourceforge was built around projects with people, github was built around people with projects. That&#x27;s my general take on it.<p>A byproduct was the naming&#x2F;addressing of projects was built around a person (or company), then the project - usera&#x2F;project1. Anyone else could take&#x2F;fork their own project1 - userb&#x2F;project1, userc&#x2F;project1, etc. Interested in project1? You could look at various versions&#x2F;forks of it through the perspective of different users, because the user was first, not the project.<p>EDIT: further... github really put the control back to individuals. anyone could start anything, vs trying to get ideas committed in to a project. Some of this is the nature of distributed vs centralized, but github still made it convenient to just get ideas out there. Setting up a repo takes a few seconds - my memory was sourceforge took a lot longer - wasn&#x27;t there some review process where you&#x27;d submit your project then it was approved for your use?
rogerbinns大约 1 年前
One big mistake SourceForge made was not scoping repositories. There could only be one project of a name on the entire site, which is why there was manual review. People naturally wanted to participate at the one true project, not a differently named fork. This introduced the usual social issues of being the &quot;official&quot; project, who had and controlled commit access, etc.<p>Github smartly made it user&#x2F;project so the same project name can exist any number of times, and it is only the top level user&#x2F;organisation that needs to be reviewed.
kijin大约 1 年前
The article does a good job explaining why GitHub won the developer mindshare, but there was also end user mindshare.<p>Unlike GitHub, where the source code is front and center, SourceForge always prioritized showing a project introduction page with screenshots and a big download button for the end user. SourceForge is where non-developers went to download cool freeware. It was like F-Droid for Windows. It was meant to be the official website for the projects it hosted, which is why it didn&#x27;t host forks.<p>But the market for end users who download executables from random websites has been shrinking rapidly for two decades. Nowadays, either you&#x27;re a developer and care about the source code, or you&#x27;re an end user and just want to install that app from your favorite app store. Not to mention that most active open-source projects these days are made for other developers and not end users, so there&#x27;s no point hosting them on a platform designed for end users.
chx大约 1 年前
Isn&#x27;t it ironic how the article mentions<p>&gt; Git was custom-built for distributed democratized development<p>and doesn&#x27;t mention how github and gitlab too severely lacks in this aspect?<p>Drupal, like a decade before git already, allowed multiple people to work on the same issue. This was reviewed by the community and then the committers and then it got merged. You <i>still</i> can&#x27;t do this on Github and only through some drupal.org magic does it work on the Gitlab instance the Drupal Association has.<p>Some democracy.
eslaught大约 1 年前
I believe I got my original GitHub invite from another HN user, back in the days when it was still invite-only. I confess at the time I didn&#x27;t really &quot;get it&quot;, despite having played with Darcs and the like prior to this.<p>But (in retrospect), I don&#x27;t think it&#x27;s really that complicated. SourceForge, back in the day, had a really atrocious UI. As a highschooler navigating CVS and SVN repos for the first time, it was really difficult to figure out how to even download source code (this was especially horrific with CVS on Windows), let alone contribute in any meaningful way. Discussion on these sites required you to sign up for a mailing list. I think Gmail was just barely a thing, but prior to that as a student I would have been stuck with some awful Hotmail account or similar. Anyway, the hurdles were high and therefore this selected for &quot;serious&quot; contributions (or people willing to put up with a lot of obstacles). SourceForge may have supported some sort of bug tracker, but I don&#x27;t remember ever interacting with a project that used it, so in practice people were splitting their various components (code, mailing lists, bug tracker) between several different sites.<p>Ignore Git for a minute. GitHub, if nothing else, had a really slick UI. That UI put code front and center, so it was (finally!) obvious what sort of project you were actually looking at. I think it can&#x27;t be underestimated how much this uniformity makes code easier to browse, as compared to the vast gulf in difference in quality between the best and worse homepages of open source projects prior to this.<p>For fun, here&#x27;s one that I authored back in the day. The home page here is actually kind of informative, but you can see how if this is all you get, the results are going to be all over the place:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ip-interfaces.common-lisp.dev&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ip-interfaces.common-lisp.dev&#x2F;</a><p>Beyond this, GitHub offered a permissionless collaboration. In the bad old days of open source, I could clone a repository, and I could write patches, but the cost of setting up forks was prohibitive. This is one of the things I didn&#x27;t &quot;get&quot; at the time, but GitHub made it practically (and socially) acceptable to just fork whatever you needed, change something, and submit it. Or not, it didn&#x27;t matter. Whether you intended for your experiments to be useful to anyone else or not, it dramatically lowered the cost of starting and maintaining those experiments. And that I think dramatically changed the face of open source software (for the better).
hardwaregeek大约 1 年前
It&#x27;s so frustrating how code hosting is like 10 years behind the big tech companies&#x27; internal tooling. Like GitHub is still terrible for stacked PRs, monorepos, code search, refactoring, etc. We&#x27;re just starting to catch up with tools like Graphite, but in all honesty, Graphite should be a feature that GitHub made 10 years ago. I appreciate it being built now, but I question why it took this long.
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adulau大约 1 年前
I recall Gitorious, which isn&#x27;t mentioned in this article. It was acquired by GitLab, which subsequently discontinued it in 2015. The standout feature has always been the social aspect and the ability to attract a large user base to a git forge. If platforms like Codeberg or similar forges enhance their social integration and capabilities, they could eventually become strong competitors to GitHub.
csmattryder大约 1 年前
A testament to how few of us used Microsoft&#x27;s CodePlex that nobody really remembers it, and wasn&#x27;t mentioned in the article.<p>It had docs, issues and source code sections back then, but I can&#x27;t remember if some of those features were spurred on by GitHub adding them first.
pentagrama大约 1 年前
Designer here, upon reading this, I found myself intrigued by Git [1]; it sounds awesome!<p>Do you know if there is a free and open-source software version control like Git but for UI? I know in Figma there is version control, even branches. But I&#x27;m thinking about something not proprietary and not attached to a tool.<p>And a more fundamental question, knowing Git, do you think that a version control for UI it is possible like what Git does for code?<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Git" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Git</a>
anymouse123456大约 1 年前
They mention requiring human approval for a new repo on Source forge, but that was just a symptom of the fact that projects names came from a global namespace. It&#x27;s hard to overstate how challenging this was. Some little exploration required this globally unique name and huge burden to come up with one. That was all before even applying.<p>One of the truly genius moves that Github made, was to put projects behind each account namespace. It&#x27;s my view that this is one of the core things that made GitHub so attractive to people.
j45大约 1 年前
SourceForge was never that good. It was the default. Then it went through some questionable changes. Similar to ExpertsExchange... being uprooted by Stack Overflow when they started to try and monetize their database in a less than popular way.<p>Github also came out around the time Git was maturing just enough, and subversion wasn&#x27;t really pushing into collaborative features.<p>Now we see tools like Gitlab starting to get the abilty to customize and integrate with other things.
jFriedensreich大约 1 年前
I saw gitorious being mentioned in the comments and want to second that. The article missing that gitorious was the sleeker looking and most promising second contender after github until it was aquired and shutdown by gitlab seems odd. It still baffles me that gitlab never managed to make their product look or feel even half decent. Whoever will challenge github will look and feel more human and more like home not less.
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sgbeal大约 1 年前
FWIW... i was an early adopter of SourceForge and absolutely loved it for the first few years. It was a godsend at the time. At some point (2004? 2006?) its web interface became so ad-ridden that it was effectively unusable, and that was what drove me away from SourceForge.
nomilk大约 1 年前
Code hosting seems to be a natural monopsony. Github does a good job by and large, and it would be a bit of a PITA for users to have to navigate a bunch of similar, competing websites for no substantial additional benefit.
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jdorfman大约 1 年前
I remember signing up for GitHub and having to provide my public SSH key before creating an account which I did. I can’t imagine how many abandoned signups there were. I think Chris tweeted about it.
blt大约 1 年前
this is a good article, but this part near the end is a bit off:<p>&gt; ...as a market matures, solutions become specialized and modular. We&#x27;ve already seen this begin to happen in a few areas of &quot;social coding.&quot; Jira and Linear offer modular issue tracking, while Jenkins and Buildkite offer modular CI solutions.<p>Those modules existed a long time before GitHub. Bugzilla was an issue tracker in the 1990s. Popular CI tools like Jenkins and Travis launched around 2010 while GitHub Actions didn&#x27;t exist until 2018.
zzzeek大约 1 年前
sourceforge was like a big klunky 8-track tape player of open source hosting. it was awful, and it&#x27;s all there was. literally anything that people put up and managed to publicize a bit would have replaced it.<p>a more interesting question is why did Github win out over Bitbucket (I know the answer to this also, it begins with Mercurial and ends with &quot;Atlassian buys them&quot;, but in the middle it gets into interesting questions about source control systems, issue trackers, etc).
Asmod4n大约 1 年前
SourceForge also had the annoying UX where you couldn’t just create or upload a repo, they had to allow it to be uploaded.<p>GitHub not having anything like that made it way more useful.
ompogUe大约 1 年前
SourceForge, Slashdot and Freshmeat all seemed to go downhill hand-in-hand to me. Bought and monetized and sold and bought and sold and monetized.
ipunchghosts大约 1 年前
Source Forge failed when it started bundling mallard with binary downloads. Case closed!
RadixDLT大约 1 年前
SourceForge was badly designed and was of no interest to the average developer
sidcool大约 1 年前
SourceForge fell to its greedy overlords and started shipping malware.
mandeepj大约 1 年前
SourceForge stagnanted and UI was messy
samtho大约 1 年前
There a small bit of irony that it required a fully decentralized source control management in order to consolidate the market for OSS code&#x2F;project hosting. The obvious caveat is that git allows any project to pack up and leave anytime they want, but the vendor lock-in came by means of the network effect and developer preference. There is an incentive on GitHub, at least, to provide a superior product to other alternatives like Gitlab or Bitbucket. Ultimately, it meant the risk of choosing GitHub was very low due to the nonexistent vendor lock-in.<p>During SourceForge’s decline, most OSS projects were either very prolific, general purpose libraries or full software packages, all of which had most of their infrastructure sorted. There were a number of other platforms, now mostly forgotten, that tried to acquire the displaced market shed from SF’s former userbase. Almost every one of the new platforms wanted to just be a better SourceForge, but none of them wanted (or thought to) to tackle the problem of git hosting as their primary product they were selling to users - which ultimately proved to be what the market wanted. OSS devs with a project likely already had an issue tracker, website, discussion forums, etc, and they didn’t want to spend their day in a CRUD app manually managing releases and fielding support requests on a platform that different from what they setup already. GitHub offered public git repository hosting with a modern look that was betting on companies buying commercial-oriented features as a monetization strategy, rather than ads. Eventually, a-la-carte features such as issues, discussions, and wiki were added, but were able to be toggled at the project-level.<p>Meanwhile, SourceForge was too busy cramming more ads in, cluttering layout, trying out asinine social media integrations, and ultimately, accelerating their (at this point) well-deserved) death by packaging malware&#x2F;adware in software distributions. It was easy to see in the moment (and even more in hindsight) how much of a loser strategy this was for SF. It’s <i>almost</i> comical how spectacularly they fucked up their own market share with short-term thinking and outright stupid ideas. Not much love was lost here by the end.<p>Without GitHub, npm would not have been successful (which itself inspired other package managers), CI&#x2F;CD would either be a bigger mess or dominated by a single vendor (which enabled fun stuff like infrastructure-as-code), coding in general would not be as accessible, and git itself may not have won out as heavily as it did.<p>GitHub’s success is a good case study in a startup being at exactly the right place at the right time, with the right product. The result wasn’t the mass migration of prolific projects immediately moving in, rather it enabled this back-pressure of micro-OSS projects to thrive because now it became viable to build a library that does one thing really well without the admin work of managing a full-blown OSS project. A number of projects eventually moved in, but the driving force to adoption, in my opinion, were the tiniest projects that ultimately proved this platforms viability.
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