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Home insurers are dropping customers based on aerial images

305 点作者 traviswingo大约 1 年前

41 条评论

denton-scratch大约 1 年前
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.ph&#x2F;SSXdN" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.ph&#x2F;SSXdN</a>
tptacek大约 1 年前
I don&#x27;t really understand the privacy concern here. To wit: insurers can demand <i>actual inspection</i> of your home when making underwriting decisions. The condition of your house is very much their business. Why is an aerial photograph of your roof, which everybody in the world already has on Google Maps, such a big deal?
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djha-skin大约 1 年前
I used to work for Verisk, an insurance tech holding company, who owned a company that took pictures of people&#x27;s roofs using airplanes and special cameras. They got sued over a patent violation with EagleView[1], who claimed the tech idea as their own, and settled.<p>&gt; The strategic alliance allows customers seamless and integrated access to EagleView technology within Verisk’s Xactware platform<p>Xactware is a product that customers (read: insurance companies) use to figure out how much money to pay on a claim.<p>The whole idea is to speed up the claims process. Insurance agents don&#x27;t need to go out to people&#x27;s houses to examine roof damage. But we also had a department doing some pretty sophisticated stuff around preventing claims fraud, so I&#x27;m not surprised.<p>1: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.verisk.com&#x2F;company&#x2F;newsroom&#x2F;verisk-and-eagleview-technology-corporation-settle-patent-suit&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.verisk.com&#x2F;company&#x2F;newsroom&#x2F;verisk-and-eagleview...</a>
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landedgentry大约 1 年前
I&#x27;m less concerned about the spying and more concerned about insurance companies arbitrarily non-renewing policies with no recourse for the consumer. Insurance is heavily regulated for good reason, and insurance should be a source of stability instead of anxiety.
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londons_explore大约 1 年前
&gt; If your roof is 20 years old and one hailstorm is going to take it off,<p>It amazes me that people in the US would even consider installing a roof that would only last 20 years.<p>In the UK, you wouldn&#x27;t consider reroofing anything that your grandparents remember being installed. Ie. Stuff doesn&#x27;t get reroofed till it&#x27;s 100 years old. Even then, you&#x27;ll normally inspect and only replace the damaged bits.<p>My 350 year old house still has part of its original roof and slate tiles etc.
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switch007大约 1 年前
We are sprinting towards a dystopia of &quot;computer says no&quot;. Decisions taken affecting your life and finances made by computers delivered by minimum wage powerless staff.<p>I&#x27;m sure healthcare insurance companies are inspired by the actions of the home insurance companies. &quot;you declared you never smoked but our drone footage shows you and a plume of smoke in the same area. The AI detected it as cigarette smoke. Your coverage is cancelled and this is our final decision. &quot;
bvan大约 1 年前
Insurance works on the basis of (a) quantifying risk and (b) charging fairly for the protection. In the long-term, getting better at (a) and consequently, (b), is in everybody’s interest. For far too long, certain risk covers have been under-charged. At the end of the day, difficulty in finding affordable insurance, or any insurance at all, tells you something about the level of risk and the ability of insurers to charge appropriately for it. Regulators are often way behind the curve, to the detriment of insurers and consumers.
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jeffbee大约 1 年前
Auburn, California, is a mistake and should be uninsurable, and I don&#x27;t want either my tax dollars or my insurance premiums being used to subsidize the treehouse lifestyle of exurban home owners. Whether this specific person&#x27;s roof is rotted or not isn&#x27;t really the point. Right now, the real estate sprawl industry is running their printing press at 110% design speed, trying to convince everyone that people who live on the fringes of civilization are getting a bad deal. But from where I sit, in a fireproof building downtown, I see it differently. We need a massive correction in California, under which we stop subsidizing the firefighting, insurance, and roads that serve the sprawl.<p>The subject property, by the way: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.google.com&#x2F;maps&#x2F;place&#x2F;2350+Buttes+View+Ln,+Auburn,+CA+95603&#x2F;@38.9197857,-121.1693294,604a,35y,94.3h,44.81t&#x2F;data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x809b10afb33e9ae1:0x41b76c5ee53f14e4!8m2!3d38.9185662!4d-121.1623808!16s%2Fg%2F11c19_0j05?entry=ttu" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.google.com&#x2F;maps&#x2F;place&#x2F;2350+Buttes+View+Ln,+Aubur...</a>
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bookofjoe大约 1 年前
&gt;If satellite launches go as planned, images could be updated daily by 2030, according to Neil Pearson, a consultant who works with imagery companies.<p>&gt;&quot;It could get interesting from a privacy standpoint as... a property could be monitored daily at high resolution,&quot; he said. &quot;It is a bit Orwellian.&quot;
walterbell大约 1 年前
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;SSXdN" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;SSXdN</a>
consultutah大约 1 年前
Vexcel doesn’t use drones. They use manned aircraft. Drones are almost never used for insurance. There are a couple of companies that do, but the costs are still too high for it to make sense.
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1vuio0pswjnm7大约 1 年前
Works where archive.ph is blocked:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cc.bingj.com&#x2F;cache.aspx?d=1812931943850&amp;w=GaxRXZW2VcqJrPtvMfQusroKm9TmEDEy" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cc.bingj.com&#x2F;cache.aspx?d=1812931943850&amp;w=GaxRXZW2Vc...</a>
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hnburnsy大约 1 年前
I wish insurance was more flexible with risk and deductibles, 20 year old roof, your deductible is 20000, 5 year old roof your deductible is 500, something that equalizes the risk without the need to drop customers. Heck I would self insure or set an extremely high deductible for rebuilding, but I still need coverage for any liability risk like when the mailman trips on my sidewalk.
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medion大约 1 年前
This aerial stuff now enhanced by AI is a privacy rights nightmare - in Australia, local councils are utilizing high res images shot by plane, which are AI analysed for infractions - ie. Illegal outbuildings, cut trees, earth works greater than a metre in depth, solar panels placed without auth etc. This kind of tech is going to be abused by both the private and public sector to no end. The images have a resolution to the point where veins on a tree leaf are perceptible.<p>We are literally going to be monitored from the sky by AI for a lot of things, and from a legal standpoint at this stage there is nothing to stop anyone from doing it.
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sys_64738大约 1 年前
Even if you can&#x27;t get insurance covering the roof, then ask for that to be an exclusion so you can get other insurance covering your home. Personal liability from lack of insurance can bankrupt you.
kmbfjr大约 1 年前
Allstate refused to offer a policy quote because my house is fuzzed out on its street view photo from 2011.
d--b大约 1 年前
A legal question here: are we allowed to shoot down a drone that snoops over our house?
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superultra大约 1 年前
My good friend works as an insurance agent. According to him, insurers are dropping customers based on <i>anything</i> right now. It’s caused chaos in the agency business, particularly in certain states.<p>My bet is aerial images are just one way of many that they’re dropping customers.
steelframe大约 1 年前
I&#x27;m not sure the degree to which insurance companies are legally allowed to share information such as aerial photographs with each other.<p>When I worked at Google I knew a developer who was building a prototype service similar to Google Flights, except for auto and home insurance. I don&#x27;t think that product ever shipped.<p>The dev on that team told me that a key thing they learned while doing the analysis is that the optimal strategy with auto and home insurance is to automatically switch providers whenever it&#x27;s time to renew.<p>It could be because your current company has collected things about you that they aren&#x27;t allowed to share with other insurance companies.
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perihelions大约 1 年前
Related idea:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=36268907">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=36268907</a> (<i>&quot;French tax officials use AI to spot 20k undeclared pools (2022)&quot;</i>, 166 comments)
fostware大约 1 年前
It&#x27;s been happening for years. Anything to limit the number of onsite visits needed because that takes a lot more time.<p>I know insurance brokers who have revisited a clients renewal, because Google Maps and&#x2F;or the council&#x27;s GIS photography shows activity or buildings counter to the client declarations. Is it a final decision? No. It&#x27;s used to prompt the client to review their coverage and amend their submitted documents. Sometimes, those amendments mean the brokers are no longer able to get coverage, and the clients go somewhere else.
krunck大约 1 年前
My insurance company asked me for photos of our roof to prove it was metal and not asphalt. From a distance it looks like asphalt because it is metal with a stone grit coating just like asphalt. Could a photo from a drone see this?. Maybe. I also live under the final approach flight path of the local airport so maybe they couldn&#x27;t verify using their drone.
jdhzzz大约 1 年前
Related (2010) on finding untaxed swimming pools on Long Island using Google Earth: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nbcnewyork.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;local&#x2F;heads-up-google-earth-used-to-track-illegal-pools-on-long-island&#x2F;1916816&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nbcnewyork.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;local&#x2F;heads-up-google-earth-...</a>
comprev大约 1 年前
Interesting to see this pop up on HN. I once did some work with a large international data broker who had recently acquired a company which specialised on aerial photography and ML for identifying potential insurance risks.<p>I&#x27;m an infra guy by trade and really enjoyed learning about the tech while on their team. Mind blowing stuff to me!!
imoverclocked大约 1 年前
This tech implementation seems like the worst HOA on steroids. Anyone have a neighbor that complains about one too many daffodils in the mandatory daffodil plot? Well, now they have a new tool for compliance.
Sparkyte大约 1 年前
The problem with aerial photos is that not always do these photos provide enough detail they can provide deceptive data. It is better if insurance companies send field workers to check the premises.
azlev大约 1 年前
Can someone explain to my house insurance is so important? I live outside USA and I never bought an insurance, a common situation in my country.
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jmorenoamor大约 1 年前
Probably an US thing, but, do you specifically have to declare you have a trampoline in order to get your home insured?
antisthenes大约 1 年前
Undeclared trampolines? What kind of insurance is this?<p>I don&#x27;t remember my house insurance (or medical, or any other kind really) being this detailed. I just picked rough estimates for the value of my structure and the items inside, and that was about it? There might have also been a waiver about not doing any hazardous activities like open fires or storing chemicals on the property.<p>It definitely wasn&#x27;t this detailed.
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contingencies大约 1 年前
So wattle-it-be... switch insurers, live underground, or plant trees? Wattles are fast-growing and there&#x27;s plenty of choice. <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;worldwidewattle.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;worldwidewattle.com&#x2F;</a>
malfist大约 1 年前
If insurance is individually priced to this degree, what&#x27;s the point of insurance?
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hilux大约 1 年前
On a similar theme [near-future consequences of data-driven technocracy], read the hilarious _Qualityland_, by Marc-Uwe Kling.
gjs4786大约 1 年前
that there is any effort at all to point out why this is okay is bewildering. it&#x27;s antisocial behavior. there is a reason this is on hn, folks. and there is a reason why basic car insurance is not. not today, anyway. its because it is disruptive, obnoxious behavior that juts out and has jagged edges, and people dont stand for that. this isn&#x27;t about my roof, or yours. people are quick to point out, &quot;fwiw, they could cancel your insurance right now! they arent required to even give it to you, so yeah, they can do that&quot; or, &quot;they&#x27;re perfectly within the law to do it, next&quot;. I paraphrase here, but regardless. I confidently say to that: Hah! then the law got it wrong, then. and the law needs to change. that is specifically the problem. they simply have too much power. and now they&#x27;re rubbing our faces on it while a bunch of you rush to find why that&#x27;s [legally] alright, while you only consider why it makes sense to you, not why it doesn&#x27;t make sense to others. a critical oversight. they could have gone about this 100 different ways. fleet drones. really?<p>I predict that they are preparing substantial layoffs; thats the only thing that even begins to explain this situation. out with the old, in with the drones
Bostonian大约 1 年前
Insurers telling you how to reduce the risk of accidents and property damage is a good thing.
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dbg31415大约 1 年前
I think this is fine, BUT...<p>I think they should have to give people time to fix the problem before dropping them.<p>A neighbor literally just got a letter in the mail, &quot;We think your trees are over your roof. Policy cancelled immediately.&quot; (The tree was over his daughter&#x27;s playhouse in the back yard, the algorithm saw shingles obstructed by a tree branch and flagged it. They don&#x27;t even bother with human review.)<p>There should be a warning period, &quot;Hey we saw this, and if you don&#x27;t fix it in 90 days we&#x27;ll have to drop you.&quot; They certainly take money before doing an inspection... they&#x27;re happy to have you start paying them right away as soon as you move in. Anyway there should be a time period for cut off of service.<p>Insurance companies are free to do inspections, but there&#x27;s still the stress that getting a notice like that does to someone.<p>These days, who even reads letters from insurance companies in the mail?! I mean, I just chuck anything with a logo in the recycling.<p>And, from what I can tell, the insurance company dropped my neighbor when they sent the letter... so he didn&#x27;t even know he wasn&#x27;t insured until he got the letter.<p>Anyway... these companies aren&#x27;t your friends. They&#x27;re all out to screw you.<p>USAA screwed me over bad recently, to the tune of nearly $300k... they forced me to use their contractor (or we won&#x27;t cover your temp housing), said not to worry and promised me a &quot;5 year workmanship warranty&quot; on the work done by their contractor... but when the contractor was utter shit, they put me through their mediation, where their mediator said, &quot;Yeah all this work done by the contractor is junk, it all has to be re-done... if they don&#x27;t fix it, we&#x27;ll eat their lunch!&quot; but ultimately they didn&#x27;t enforcing any of that with the contractor and let the contractor off without any consequences -- even insisted I pay the contractor. &quot;Oh you had no right to expect the work would be professionally done...&quot; the contractor said in court. It was all total BS. And they said, &quot;USAA may promise you one thing, but contract we have means we aren&#x27;t liable for any damages to your house, 35-foot trees we killed, foundations we cracked, garage doors we backed into, things our endless stream of disorganized day-laborers stole, etc...&quot; USAA&#x27;s mediation process was really just a play to run out the statue of limitations on the contract too, I felt. =P<p>Live and learn... but insurance companies are heartless bastards. You can&#x27;t trust them, and even the &quot;good&quot; ones will screw you if they can. Tell you one thing, and do another...<p>If you have a flood, call your lawyer first, the insurance company second, and the water mitigation folks third. Get it all in writing, take more photos than you ever thought necessary, and hope you have an adjuster who isn&#x27;t having a crappy day that day.
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lamontcg大约 1 年前
&gt; “If your roof is 20 years old and one hailstorm is going to take it off, you should pay more than somebody with a brand new roof,”<p>If you&#x27;ve been paying for insurance for 20 years with one company, then I&#x27;d say that is certainly a dick move to drop you right before it might pay out. What even is the point then?
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throwaway74432大约 1 年前
Related, my vehicle insurer keeps jacking up the rates. I&#x27;ve never been in an accident or had a ticket, and I drive 2000 miles per year. But every year up up up. Then they offer I install a tracking device on my car to get my rates back down to a reasonable amount. There seems to be a pattern of insurers wanting to know everything about everyone, and using irrationally higher rates to coerce consent. And I have to pay it or consent to tracking because insurance is mandated by law.
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time0ut大约 1 年前
Insurance is a borderline scam. You have to have it by law or in case the worst happens. When the worst does happen get ready for a fight as they will do everything they can legally do to wriggle out.
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gmd63大约 1 年前
Insurance bothers me for a few reasons:<p>1. What pisses me off more than anything else, it enables fraud that otherwise wouldn&#x27;t exist. People manufacturing calamities and then claiming insurance allows dishonest people to get ahead in life over people who are honest and concerned enough about the future to buy insurance. Additionally, insurance fraud is net bad relative to other types of fraud because it encourages criminals to manufacture damage that wouldn&#x27;t otherwise happen.<p>2. There is an obvious incentive for them to chase an endgame of knowing exactly whether you will cost them money or make them money. When they attain this, insurance simply becomes a fortune teller and an instruction manual for Living Without Calamity. If you&#x27;re denied coverage, you&#x27;re going to experience something calamitous. If you&#x27;re accepted, you have the ability to be fine and don&#x27;t need insurance, unless you aren&#x27;t sure how to Live Without Calamity. When you are accepted, you&#x27;re only covered if you surrender your agency and follow their instructions for Living Without Calamity. Basic things like travelers insurance have clauses that void your policy if you scuba dive past 30 feet on your trip.<p>3. Insurance policies can create toxic incentives for people that hurt society. I filed a claim with Generali travel insurance because my host tested positive for COVID with a take home test, and I canceled my trip. Their web portal indicated that my claim had been received and was awaiting processing. I called incessantly to confirm my claim was good, and was not able to get an answer after several calls that routed through incompetent-by-design help desk employees and into a voicemailbox of a claims processor. Weeks go by and I receive a voicemail from the person I had been trying to contact telling me that I needed a doctor&#x27;s note confirming that the person had COVID, and a take home test would not suffice. So, a company allegedly tasked with helping the public live safely wanted me to, at the time, ask my COVID infected host to waltz in to the doctor&#x27;s office and spread around a pathogen that could kill patients. Nice. I guess they weren&#x27;t medical insurance so they didn&#x27;t care. And of course no doctor would retroactively go back in time and confirm that a person was positive for a sickness after they had already recovered.
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sircastor大约 1 年前
I&#x27;m going to assume that nobody&#x27;s insurance premiums or deductibles are going down from this data. No analysis is making the insurer say &quot;Oh, that roof is in much better condition despite its age.&quot;<p>Insurance feels like the biggest scam in the history of the world. You are legally obligated to pay us for nothing, most of the time.
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gjsman-1000大约 1 年前
5 years ago, a family friend got an angry letter from the city because he had cleared slightly too much lakefront weeds (and by slightly - I mean very lightly, enough to anger the algorithm lightly). How did they know? Drone. And this was suburban Minnesota.<p>Not even insurance - this was the city of Newport on a power rampage. Turns out there’s also no shortage of general corruption in the police department…<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;bringmethenews.com&#x2F;minnesota-news&#x2F;footage-shows-newport-police-misconduct-including-sex-in-city-office-report-says" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;bringmethenews.com&#x2F;minnesota-news&#x2F;footage-shows-newp...</a>
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