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Google's Chrome antitrust paradox

101 点作者 wouterjanl大约 1 年前

17 条评论

gundmc大约 1 年前
One of the authors of this paper works at Duck Duck Go. This was conspicuously not mentioned in the header information.
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strongpigeon大约 1 年前
Having just read the paper, I find their case for separating out Chrome pretty weak. A lot of their points have nothing to do with Chrome being part of Google really.<p>The failure of the (really weak) DNT standard had nothing to do with Chrome. While I get that Google is an advertiser, Chrome did implement DNT and wasn&#x27;t even as big of a player back then.<p>Then they talk about Widevine DRM which, say what you want about DRMs, is something media platforms actively asked for due to their licensing. But in anycase, I don&#x27;t see how this has anything to do with the fact that Google owns Chrome?<p>They also talk a lot about self-preferencing, meaning putting pop-ups to install Chrome on a bunch of Google properties (most notably on search). While I agree that this behavior should be condemned and is anti-trust related, it&#x27;s mostly about Google leveraging their dominant position in <i>search</i> to gain an edge in the browser space, not the other way around... Barring Google from doing this is what needs to happen, not separating Chrome in a different company.<p>They talk a lot about how Chrome is strategically important for Google, which it is. Chrome is a pure strategy play from Google. But that doesn&#x27;t mean the industry is suffering because of it (in fact I&#x27;d argue Chrome helped the industry tremendously). Until Google abuses their position with Chrome, which the authors haven&#x27;t made a good case for, I don&#x27;t see why Chrome should be the target they make it to be.
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shadowgovt大约 1 年前
Worth noting whenever you read about antitrust: is the writing coming from Europe or the US.<p>European law grounds antitrust in whether the <i>marketplace</i> is harmed. In that context, something could be an antitrust violation if it&#x27;s hard to compete with, <i>even if that circumstance is better for users</i>.<p>US antitrust is grounded in <i>consumer</i> harm. One could, hypothetically, have an ecosystem where there is one browser and it&#x27;s not an antitrust situation because the benefits to consumers outweigh drawbacks to competitors (for example, if users perhaps benefit more from an ecosystem with fewer browsers than more browsers, because the odds of any given website working on their browser are higher if web devs don&#x27;t have to test against dozens of bespoke partially-compliant implementations). Microsoft ran afoul of antitrust because of the consumer harm demonstrated in bundling its browser (which, notably, was a bit of a bug-ridden mess at the time) into its OS (which made the whole experience worse). But nowadays? <i>Everyone</i> has bundled a browser into their OS.<p>(None of this is to say that the US or European model is better, just that it&#x27;s always important to code-switch when comprehending arguments regarding antitrust coming from the two regions).
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gwbas1c大约 1 年前
I&#x27;ve done front-end web development on-and-off for about 20 years.<p>One thing I&#x27;ve observed in the past few years is that Chromium (Open-source base of Chrome,) has come to dominate the browser platform: HTML has turned into a boondoggle where everyone&#x27;s pet use case is integrated into the browser; and curiously, everything works first on Chromium. This makes it prohibitively difficult for competing browsers, (Mozilla, Safari,) to keep up with the evolving web standard.<p>As a developer, it &quot;smells&quot; like the Windows monopoly all over again; except this time, because Chromium is open-source, and there are plenty of Chromium-based browsers (Edge, Brave, and Chrome,), it&#x27;s less obvious.
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andrewla大约 1 年前
The sticking points for me are just the integration of Google services into Chrome itself.<p>I should be able to log into a website (say Google Docs) and have the browser be blissfully unaware of the semantics of being &quot;logged in&quot;. It should do all the cookies and local storage necessary for this, but under no circumstances should this be part of the browser UI itself.<p>The side panel for &quot;google search results&quot; is worse in some ways, better in some. It&#x27;s an optional feature, so that&#x27;s better. But it does not allow you to disable the functionality. If people love it, sure, I don&#x27;t mind Chrome adding support, but I should not have to have a non-removable &quot;side panel&quot; button in the main browser chrome.<p>The rest of the complaints here don&#x27;t really bother me. Third-party cookie blocking by default would be great, but you can enable it now and I&#x27;ve been doing that for ages anyway, even though it sometimes breaks things.
candiddevmike大约 1 年前
US v Google antitrust trial is scheduled for September 9: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;United_States_v._Google_LLC_(2023)" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;United_States_v._Google_LLC_(2023...</a><p>(in case this article made you wonder what is happening with it)
rockskon大约 1 年前
I don&#x27;t like Google being able to unilaterally dictate major internet standards in opposition of just about every non-Google group.
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cratermoon大约 1 年前
The title is a nod to <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.yalelawjournal.org&#x2F;note&#x2F;amazons-antitrust-paradox" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.yalelawjournal.org&#x2F;note&#x2F;amazons-antitrust-parado...</a>
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nonrandomstring大约 1 年前
There is still the non hexavalent [0] version [1], although it is strewn with blobs [2]<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Hexavalent_chromium" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Hexavalent_chromium</a><p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Chromium_(web_browser)" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Chromium_(web_browser)</a><p>[2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Binary_blob" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Binary_blob</a>
1vuio0pswjnm7大约 1 年前
Direct link to PDF:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.cs.ucdavis.edu&#x2F;~zubair&#x2F;files&#x2F;jetlaw-chrome-antitrust-paradox.pdf" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.cs.ucdavis.edu&#x2F;~zubair&#x2F;files&#x2F;jetlaw-chrome-antit...</a>
ei23大约 1 年前
Got me suspicious, why google advertises chrome even heavily with TV ads. At least in Germany.
haburka大约 1 年前
Can’t actually view the paper without making an account apparently, does anyone have a link?
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sebazzz大约 1 年前
It is just genius. After actually building a better browser, just implementing web standards while they are still on the standard track - or even before it - forcing competitors to implement them and also slowing them down in the process.
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keeganpoppen大约 1 年前
can we keep chrome and just stop the goddamn incessant messages every time i use a google property while not in chrome? it is sickening.
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skybrian大约 1 年前
Here’s what they claim to be “dark patterns:”<p>* Prompts to install Chrome and make it your default browser. (Safari and Edge do the same; this is a tactic that’s been common since the browser wars between Netscape and IE.)<p>* The built-in password manager and synchronization using a Google account.<p>* Ads on Google Search for Chrome.<p>* Built-in DRM and the companies like Spotify that require it.<p>* Some Google services like Google Meet and Google Earth were implemented for Chrome first.<p>* Advertisers can place ads using AdWords on Google Search and this is first-party, rather than third-party advertising, which matters when third-party cookies are blocked.<p>* Google Ads provides Google with insight into the popularity of other websites. (As does running the most popular search engine, I will add.)<p>* Chrome’s long-delayed blocking of third-party cookies is finally happening, but first-party cookies are unaffected.<p>* Moving Google services from other domains to google.com subdomains means that they can share cookies without being affected by third-party cookie restrictions.<p>That’s quite a long list of competitive advantages! And there are more! It’s good to be a big tech company that most people use. They aren’t dark patterns, though? None of this seems surprising?<p>I still think Chrome blocking third-party cookies will be a good thing. I guess that’s the paradox, what’s better for privacy isn’t good for competition.
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retskrad大约 1 年前
Can you imagine the Mac without Chrome? The mainstream population would simply use Safari and a default Windows browser. The productivity of the Mac in particular would be downgraded to iPhone and iPad levels because everything we do nowadays is web based. Mail, Docs, storage, research, listening to Music, watching content.<p>Chrome&#x27;s domination has been nothing but positive for the consumer because it&#x27;s in Google&#x27;s best interest to keep it as user-friendly as possible to keep its customer loyalty. When the browser is user-friendly, Google makes money. Let&#x27;s compare it to Safari on iPhone and iPad where Apple is deliberately crippling it so the open web doesn&#x27;t take a cent away from their App Store model.<p>If we didn&#x27;t have Chrome, then what you&#x27;ll get is a world where Apple cripples the open web and Microsoft on the other end only caring about their corporate-world interests. Google is the only company that is keeping the web open and consumer focused.
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fUCp62大约 1 年前
Deeming a product with only ~65% market share as an antitrust issue feels wrong and reductive of actual market monopolies. I like Khan and what the FTC has been up to lately, but the contemporary antitrust school of thought feels diluted and overreaching as applied to tech companies
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