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LCD displays still don't match the responsiveness of clunky CRT screens (2019)

135 点作者 hestefisk大约 1 年前

30 条评论

voidwtf大约 1 年前
I had the benefit of growing up on the during the transition period from CRT to LCD. I had a friend who got an awesome Sony Trinitron WEGA and had the opportunity to play PS1 and PS2 games on it. I struggle to see the appeal of the CRT for modern day anything. For games designed on a CRT, the allure is obvious. Games designed for CRT often looked their best on the CRT because of the subtle blending and screen pattern which the graphics were designed around. The games weren&#x27;t meant to look like pixelated blocks with clearly defined edges like they do on a modern screen, and they didn&#x27;t look that way on a CRT.<p>However modern content on modern, decent, LCD panels and especially on OLED panels, blows CRTs out of the water. The vibrancy of the colors, the overall quality of the picture, not having that CRT &#x27;glow&#x27;, readability of text is all improved in my opinion. CRTs also had a number of maintenance items, the screens attracted dust like a magnet, having to adjust vertical and horizontal alignment, color adjustments (both which often ended up out of whack for some reason).<p>I&#x27;m sure there are benefits, for older games I see it, but for modern games I sometimes wonder if this is people waxing poetic or being nostalgic. I&#x27;m sure there are some people who will make claims about gaining an edge in online shooters, but I&#x27;m curious how much of that is real considering other losses in the pipeline like digital to analog conversion and how low the refresh rate is compared to modern gaming panels.
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tombert大约 1 年前
You know, zero-latency is cool, but I gotta admit that I do not miss cathode ray tube TVs. They are really heavy, the picture was fuzzy, I never personally liked the scanlines, they&#x27;re bulky, and I never liked that high pitch squeal that they make. I&#x27;ll confess a little nostalgia for the CRTs sometimes, my first TV was a hand-me-down RCA from my parents and that served as my only TV until I was 20, but the second that 1080p (or better) LCD TVs got cheap, I never looked back.<p>Even in regards to the latency, I&#x27;m kind of convinced that those claims are a little overblown. LCDs <i>do</i> increase latency, but some of the more modern LCD TVs have a &quot;low latency mode&quot;, that claims to get the latency to below 15 milliseconds; assuming most games are 60FPS, that&#x27;s below a single frame, and I don&#x27;t think that a vast majority of humans can even detect that. and for the few that can, OLEDs have you covered with latency on the order of like 2ms.
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jsheard大约 1 年前
This article is a few years old, so the mention of OLED monitors is behind the times. They&#x27;re available in desktop sizes (27-32&quot;) for around $1000 now, still expensive compared to LCDs, but getting more accessible.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.rtings.com&#x2F;monitor&#x2F;reviews&#x2F;best&#x2F;oled" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.rtings.com&#x2F;monitor&#x2F;reviews&#x2F;best&#x2F;oled</a>
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yardie大约 1 年前
Hacker tip:<p>I had one of these FW900s I got for free from work. The screen was extremely dim and it was assumed the flyback had gone bad. Since I am a card carrying member of &quot;program the damn VCR&quot; generation I knew that it was probably a bad capacitor. Throwing complete caution to the wind I removed the case and shields around the multiple circuit boards. And with nothing more than a multimeter and a few cans of Redbull (gives you wings, and you&#x27;re going to need them) I found the offending cap on the back of the tube (IIRC, the D-board).<p>With nothing more than time, a 10c capacitor, and the immortality of a young, 20yo I was able to inline a working capacitor and got a free 150lb, $2000 monitor for my effort.<p>If you&#x27;re comfortable with working on HV electronics and know how to solder and use a multimeter getting one of these for cheap is completely doable.
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sjm大约 1 年前
CRTs are still unmatched for gaming. Aside from input lag, they don&#x27;t degrade low resolutions the same way that LCDs do. For the longest time I stuck with a 19&quot; flatscreen 4:3 CRT that did 170Hz at 800x600, an absolute beast. As a kid I&#x27;d lug it around to QuakeWorld and Counter-Strike LAN tournaments.<p>I&#x27;ve gone through a bunch of high refresh rate LCDs since, but nothing has matched the perfect hand-eye sync of a CRT running at high FPS and high refresh rate with a 1000 Hz mouse, zooming around dm3 in a complete state of flow.
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zactato大约 1 年前
I recall seeing this photo back in the 90s and it seemed like the pinnacle of display technology<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20110927044427&#x2F;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;geek.com&#x2F;articles&#x2F;games&#x2F;john-carmack-coded-quake-on-a-28-inch-169-1080p-monitor-in-1995-20110920&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20110927044427&#x2F;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;geek.com&#x2F;...</a>
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bloopernova大约 1 年前
I stupidly gave myself a hernia by trying to lift one of the big CRT widescreen TVs in the late 90s. It was a really nice picture though, PAL was decent resolution for back in the day.<p>The hidef 1080p CRTs used by Sony Broadcast R&amp;D in the 90s were absolute <i>beasts</i>. Gorgeous displays, I remember so many people really were blown away at the hidef content, and it wasn&#x27;t even close to 4K! (I haven&#x27;t yet seen any 8K content on an 8K screen, I prefer high refresh rates for 4K, at least 120Hz, rather than more pixels)
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TheCleric大约 1 年前
My back hurts just thinking about picking up my Trinitron. Those things felt like they were made out of lead.
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KptMarchewa大约 1 年前
A lot of people are saying there are advantages to visual quality for CRT monitors. I don&#x27;t disagree, but most what I remember from my gaming obsessed childhood are strong headaches from prolonged sessions, which disappeared after move to CRT.<p>I don&#x27;t play games anywhere close to what I used to do, but I can&#x27;t imagine working for 8-10 hours on CRT monitor and not losing health.
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mbreese大约 1 年前
(2019)<p>Things have changed substantially, especially regarding the availability of OLED gaming oriented monitors. CRTs were great (especially the Trinitrons), but they were stupid heavy. I’d much rather have an OLED today.
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physicsguy大约 1 年前
My overwhelming memory of CRT monitors is struggling to see what was on the screen when there&#x27;s daylight shining on them at all. Computer rooms at school and university always used to be dark caves (even more so than they are now) because they had to have heavy blinds so that you could do anything...
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squarefoot大约 1 年前
Not a gamer, but have vivid memories of playing on CRTs and I don&#x27;t miss them at all. They&#x27;re like vinyl records: they bring wonderful memories, but technically speaking there&#x27;s no reason to go back to them. That said, SED technology could have been employed to create products with the best of two worlds, if only it wasn&#x27;t killed by patent and licensing issues. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Surface-conduction_electron-emitter_display" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Surface-conduction_electron-em...</a>
maxrecursion大约 1 年前
I play retro games regularly, and as good as emulation is, there are tons of old fast paced games that are unplayable for me on modern TVs due to input lag.<p>Recently was playing Zelda 1 on the NES when the game crashed and deleted my save half way through the 2nd quest. Tried to play it on an emulator and on the switch, and both felt clunky compared to playing on the NES. Could probably get through it, but it wouldn&#x27;t have been fun.
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nutshell89大约 1 年前
Unrelated to anything in the article, but I&#x27;m curious as to why there haven&#x27;t been OLED or LCD panels manufactured specifically for general-purpose CRT emulation in hardware + software (via curved panels, artifacts unique to CRTs such as pixel blurring, phosphor persistence, scanlines, etc) for retro video games, film preservation, and artwork.
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mistyvales大约 1 年前
Nobody seems to remember plasma TV&#x27;s? It was the closest to CRT I used. 240hz, 1080p bliss. Yes, they were kinda heavy and power hungry but I still miss my 2013 Panasonic Viera<p>Edit: It was actually only up to 96hz, but gaming on it didn&#x27;t feel like there was too much motion blur
bombcar大约 1 年前
The big advantage for these was the flatness of the screen, created by what seemed to be inches of glass to refract the curve straight.<p>For those big sizes, there was nothing comparable - everything else was so convex that it was hard to use as a monitor once you got about 19 or 21 inches.
snakeyjake大约 1 年前
I find neither the aperture grill nor shadow mask aesthetically appealing.<p>Throughout the 80s, 90s, and early 2000s I spent obscene amounts of money trying to minimize them. Smaller and smaller grills, the switch to shadow masks and their infernal lines, it never stopped.<p>To me, any screen technology where I can look at the clock in the upper right or lower left corner and see the pixels comprising the numbers (or a blurry smear) is trash.<p>The same with colors. Any screen technology that cannot accurately reproduce colors is trash. Asking a CRT to accurately reproduce colors, even something as minimally acceptable as Rec.709, is like asking me to perform brain surgery: it ain&#x27;t happening brah.
Willish42大约 1 年前
I found the wallpaper used in the article picture, in case anybody else was curious (turns out it&#x27;s a League of Legends fanart which I&#x27;m not too familiar with but was hoping this was a cool JRPG I hadn&#x27;t tried yet or something) <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.deviantart.com&#x2F;zuqling&#x2F;art&#x2F;LoL-One-for-the-road-432734122" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.deviantart.com&#x2F;zuqling&#x2F;art&#x2F;LoL-One-for-the-road-...</a><p>Edit: also the DigitalFoundry video referenced in the article is a much better watch imo <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=V8BVTHxc4LM" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=V8BVTHxc4LM</a>
NikkiA大约 1 年前
I had one of them, it was a great monitor except for 3 things, 1: it&#x27;s interlaced mode was literally painful, and it was all I could ever get at higher than 1080p, 2: it weighed 50kg, and partially related to 2, 3: it was so deep a tube that the only place it would go on my desk was on a corner section where it made the whole thing sag badly.<p>Oh, and thinking about it, I just had a horrible flashback to the intersection of two horrible aspects of that time of my life, a day when I needed to use the interlaced mode <i>and</i> the neighbouring resort had one of their weekly reggae concerts with 120+ dB sound, my headache was epic.
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axegon_大约 1 年前
For the longest time I thought I was having survivorship bias + nostalgia. Back in the late 90&#x27;s my dad coughed up a lot of money on then the second family computer with all sorts of peripherals and accessories. One of which being a 17 inch Sony Trinitron CRT. I had this monitor until the second half of the 2000&#x27;s when I went to study abroad. None of the computers and monitors I had in the future felt like a downgrade compared to the Trinitron, even till this day, even with a few several high end oled monitors at home. Seems it wasn&#x27;t survivorship&#x2F;nostalgia...
WalterBright大约 1 年前
I used CRTs for maybe 20 years. Once I acquired an LCD, that was the end of CRTs for me. I didn&#x27;t like the weight, the size, the heat, the warmup time, the power consumption, the whine from the flyback transformer, the resolution, or the fuzzy fonts.<p>The LCD beats it in every metric. Even in price - I can get an LCD monitor for $10 from the thrift store.<p>P.S. I can&#x27;t hear the whine anymore in a CRT. Gettin&#x27; old.
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moudis大约 1 年前
I had the fortune of owning a Dell P1110 (rebranded Sony Trinitron CPD-E500) many years ago, bought quite cheaply at a surplus auction while in college. 21&quot;, flat glass, and weighed in right at 70lbs. Lugged it to a few LAN parties here and there.<p>It wasn&#x27;t until OLED monitors came around that I finally felt like flat panel displays had really caught up.
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mcbuilder大约 1 年前
I&#x27;m glad to have a 19in CRT nearby my desk, I do enjoy the retro vibes, but the big disadvantage has gotta be their weight and heft. There is no way the average consumer wants a FW900 taking up their entire desk. It would be cool if the CRT industry didn&#x27;t completely die and instead it existed as a niche product.
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dtgriscom大约 1 年前
For a while I owned a Tempest arcade game. It had a CRT, but driven as a color vector display. Beautiful lines, rapid updates. Very cool.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Tempest_(video_game)" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Tempest_(video_game)</a>
TradingPlaces大约 1 年前
I held on to the last Sony XBR Trinitron, the KD-34XBR970, for an unreasonable amount of time because the picture was so lively. Eventually sold it to a retro gamer, who was thrilled, and so was I.
RajT88大约 1 年前
One of the gems of my retro collection is my 36&quot; Sony WEGA which has a native 720p resolution.<p>HD image which works with the many retro light gun games.
sssilver大约 1 年前
I occasionally get the itch of purchasing a brand new CRT monitor, and fail to find any.<p>Has humankind stopped manufacturing CRTs entirely?
g42gregory大约 1 年前
LCDs still can not change resolution away from native max, without screen getting blurred. As I recall, LCDs started to get wide adoption about 2004 or so. It has been only 20 yrs. Why can&#x27;t they make them to be able to run on resolutions other than native? CRT could do that with no problems.
Night_Thastus大约 1 年前
I&#x27;m sorry but I really don&#x27;t believe a 540 Hz or even 360 Hz LCD is going to be beaten in total end-to-end latency by any kind of CRT. I&#x27;ve yet to see any real world tests to the contrary.<p>And of course, modern OLED beats the pants off of both in that regard.
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dekhn大约 1 年前
Oh hell no. We celebrated when I finally got my 36&quot;(?) Sony Triniton WEGA out of the house. It was so heavy it took 2 strong people to move. It was enormous and hot. The image quality was great, but quickly eclipsed by LCDs. But the weight. It just made it impossible to move.
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