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ChatControl: EU ministers want to exempt themselves

426 点作者 Sami_Lehtinen大约 1 年前

22 条评论

perihelions大约 1 年前
I think the best way to get rid of a horrible law like this is indeed to enforce against the people who wrote it. Enforce equitably, and enforce equally: the same misery everyone else already knows. If ministers worry about their private communications being read by strangers—if that makes them feel fearful, paranoid, violated—then let them feel fearful, paranoid, violated, just like the hundreds of millions of other people they would enforce those feelings on.<p><i>&quot;Laws are to govern all alike — those opposed as well as those who favor them. I know no method to secure the repeal of bad or obnoxious laws so effective as their stringent execution.&quot;</i> –Ulysses S. Grant (1869)—often misquoted and misattributed to Lincoln,<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikiquote.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Ulysses_S._Grant#First_Inaugural_Address_(1869)" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikiquote.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Ulysses_S._Grant#First_Inaugur...</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikiquote.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Abraham_Lincoln#Misattributed" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikiquote.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Abraham_Lincoln#Misattributed</a>
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dantondwa大约 1 年前
Obviously, this is about creating the infrastructure for a continent-wide surveillance program, using children pornography as a troy horse.<p>The problem is that EU institutions are so far and detached from the member states that most citizens are completely unaware of their doing, at least until said European laws get implemented locally.
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YPPH大约 1 年前
Whenever things like this come up with the non-tech folk I deal with, the conversation tends to turn to &quot;Oh, well, I don&#x27;t have any of that sort of stuff, so nothing to worry about&quot;, or &quot;Good, child abusers should be in jail&quot;.<p>What are people&#x27;s talking points against these views?
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earthnail大约 1 年前
I just mailed my local newspaper about it, asking them to write about this (Süddeutsche Zeitung - basically the German NYT). If you live in the EU, I encourage you to do the same.
prof-dr-ir大约 1 年前
The actual proposed regulation [0] is definitely worth having a look at. For example:<p>5. This Regulation shall not create any obligation that would require a provider of hosting services or a provider of interpersonal communications services to decrypt data or create access to end-to-end encrypted data, or that would prevent the provision of end-to-end encrypted services.<p>[0] page 36 onwards of <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.patrick-breyer.de&#x2F;wp-content&#x2F;uploads&#x2F;2024&#x2F;04&#x2F;2024-04-11-conseil-csam-compromis-9-avril.pdf" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.patrick-breyer.de&#x2F;wp-content&#x2F;uploads&#x2F;2024&#x2F;04&#x2F;202...</a>
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mustafa_pasi大约 1 年前
We are very fast approaching totalitarianism here in Europe. It is really sad to see. There is basically no free speech anymore and now they want to even track and control our private communication. And what&#x27;s worse is, everyone is so high on moral superiority over other cultures that they cannot even admit to themselves that this could be happening.
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urduntupu大约 1 年前
Makes sense. So that von der Leyen, president of the EU, can just continue deleting her SMS containing secret vaxx purchase deals with BigPharma [0]. SMS is somewhat a chat, too, right? But good that she can be now exempted from ChatControl.<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.politico.eu&#x2F;article&#x2F;new-york-times-sue-european-union-ursula-von-der-leyen-pfizer-texts&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.politico.eu&#x2F;article&#x2F;new-york-times-sue-european-...</a>
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dindresto大约 1 年前
&gt; The EU governments want to adopt the chat control bill by the beginning of June.<p>Just in time for elections...
metalspoon大约 1 年前
I&#x27;d prefer the EU to be dismantled just because of this.
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Macha大约 1 年前
Huh, I thought ChatControl plans were dead, have they just rebranded and restarted?
mardifoufs大约 1 年前
I don&#x27;t get it, I thought an EU court decided that encrypted chat was a human right a few weeks ago.
mrtksn大约 1 年前
IIUC, this is why it&#x27;s good to have separations of power and slow legislation. EU ministers can keep wanting stuff, courts and the parliament keeps rejecting it and the public keep pushing back.<p>Pretty much it&#x27;s what divides the free world from the dictatorships. Its pretty scary when you start seeing politicians attacking courts, judges etc.<p>Every country that went ahead with steamrolling courts has become a dumpster fire. When politicians start saying that they have mandate to do this one thing but the courts are not allowing it, it&#x27;s a huge red flag. When institutions or politicians say that something is slowing them down, it&#x27;s a huge red flag.
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luke-stanley大约 1 年前
Wow, imagine if governments correctly checked if children were actually psychologically safe and healthy, even once a year. That must be totally different from ChatControl, and a it could be a hard problem, with lots of last mile problems. Doing this for all humans would be nice. I&#x27;m reminded of instructions postal delivery people had to check on elderly after it turned out an elderly person was found dead, months after dying if I recall correctly. Maybe it&#x27;s a human network connectivity mapping problem with a lot of tricky user experience &#x2F; delivery&#x2F; last mile problems. I dream of this being solved. Is anything like this being done in the EU, or elsewhere on a reproducible scale? That and reliability predicting and relieving suffering seem like important projects to me.
obynio大约 1 年前
The website recommends to contact the permanent representation of my country, and more importantly <i>by phone</i> which is apparently more effective. Not that I&#x27;m worried about it but I wonder if anyone here already did this, is it an accepted practice to reach out with such a method ?
postepowanieadm大约 1 年前
Related: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reuters.com&#x2F;world&#x2F;europe&#x2F;eus-von-der-leyen-cant-find-texts-with-pfizer-chief-vaccine-deal-letter-2022-06-29&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reuters.com&#x2F;world&#x2F;europe&#x2F;eus-von-der-leyen-cant-...</a>
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zoobab大约 1 年前
The executive becoming legislators, Montesquieu told you so with his principle of &quot;Seperation of Powers&quot;, but the EU was built after WW2 as an inter-governmental organisation, critized in the 60s&#x2F;70s for being a group of Ministers sitting in a closed room, and taking decisions for their own ministries. The European Parliament was born out of those critics (and some German Const Court decisions).<p>But that does not solve the core problem that the executive should not become legislator.
PreInternet01大约 1 年前
Lots of doom-speculation here, but I think the whole &quot;ChatControl&quot; controversy could be contained with One Single Measure: &quot;If &gt;X% of messages in a given group contain the term(s) &#x27;Y&#x27;, auto-report that group, and silently-add verified LE to said group if requested.&quot;
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earthnail大约 1 年前
Holy shit... I wasn&#x27;t even aware such a surveillance program was on its way. Sneaky. Jesus, I hope it can still be stopped.
wkat4242大约 1 年前
Lol I&#x27;m so not surprised.<p>PS: When it was shot down a few months ago, I told everyone it was only temporary and they will keep trying again and again but people downvoted me for not celebrating :&#x2F;
ufocia大约 1 年前
Sounds like the QAnon may garner more support.
blibble大约 1 年前
ah yes, like they exempt themselves from pesky things like income tax
teekert大约 1 年前
Some animals are more equal than others.