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Flying Aircraft Carriers (2019)

165 点作者 cainxinth大约 1 年前

23 条评论

simonw大约 1 年前
Not enough people know that a hundred years ago there were genuine airship aircraft carriers flying around, launching biplanes and then having them land back on the airship while it was still flying!<p>How do you land a biplane on a Zeppelin? You fly up underneath it, match your speed with that of the airship, then hook onto a landing frame lowered beneath the aircraft and let it lift you back onboard.<p>I gave a talk about Zeppelin history back in 2008, and recently rediscovered the slides and audio and turned them into a YouTube video: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=omobajJmyIU" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=omobajJmyIU</a><p>It has images of the biplane landing mechanism at 3m57s.
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icegreentea2大约 1 年前
Another parasite fighter concept that actually got to prototype and flight phase was the XF-85 Goblin. It&#x27;s... pretty adorable actually.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;McDonnell_XF-85_Goblin" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;McDonnell_XF-85_Goblin</a>
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zer00eyz大约 1 年前
The US is all over this concept today, Only with bombers&#x2F;transports and drones&#x2F;UAV&#x27;s<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;arstechnica.com&#x2F;information-technology&#x2F;2020&#x2F;01&#x2F;here-come-the-gremlins-dod-tests-drone-launch-from-c-130-mothership&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;arstechnica.com&#x2F;information-technology&#x2F;2020&#x2F;01&#x2F;here-...</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.thedefensepost.com&#x2F;2023&#x2F;09&#x2F;13&#x2F;us-drone-swarms-tanker&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.thedefensepost.com&#x2F;2023&#x2F;09&#x2F;13&#x2F;us-drone-swarms-ta...</a><p>I suspect that in light of the war in Ukraine were going to see a lot of development on this front.
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pfdietz大约 1 年前
Admiral Moffett was killed in 1933 when the airship Akron crashed at sea. Moffett Field in California is named after him.<p>After airships were seen to be impractical, the navy switched its planning to use seaplanes. Originally intended also to be bombers (hence the PBY designation for &quot;Patrol Bombers&quot;) they proved their worth in recon and rescue roles in WW2. Their ability to operate from unimproved islands (via seaplane tender ships) was somewhat overshadowed by the unforeseen speed with which the Seabees could build new forward airbases, and by the enormous expansion in US Navy aircraft carriers in the latter stages of the war.
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jauntywundrkind大约 1 年前
Bear with me as I get to flying aircraft carriers...<p>Bending the rules here, but the line between aircraft and cruise missile and drone feels like it&#x27;s flexing &amp; bending to me. Cruise missiles like the JASSM-158C look a lot like an autonomous unmanned aircraft to me. DARPA has been continually working on this thing for a decade now, and their recent Integration Test Event 12 involved flying four of the already remarkably intelligent missile in formation to target. Not that they&#x27;ll tell us exactly what went down here, but I rather expect that under-bids the magnitude of the mission and perhaps the inter-coordination of these missiles. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;AGM-158C_LRASM" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;AGM-158C_LRASM</a> <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.lockheedmartin.com&#x2F;2024-04-3-lockheed-martin-conducts-historic-lrasm-flight-test" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.lockheedmartin.com&#x2F;2024-04-3-lockheed-martin-co...</a><p>Ok, so, I&#x27;ve somewhat convinced myself that missiles are now basically their own aircraft at this point. If you can consider that, then we do have flying carrier aircraft: the Rapid Dragon system palletizes the missiles, &amp; has them dropped out of C-17 or C-130 aircraft. Not quite up to par with the proposed Boeing 747 Cruise Missile Carrier Aircraft (CMCA), but still pretty real. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Rapid_Dragon_(missile_system)" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Rapid_Dragon_(missile_system)</a><p>More contemporarily, I can definitely imagine, say, an attack helicopter that can deploy it&#x27;s own small swarm of autonomous drones.
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NohatCoder大约 1 年前
None of the airship concept art in that article looks like it passes a simple weight-to-lift ratio check. Real airships have a tiny usable compartment relative to the total size of the vessel, and everything is optimised for weight.<p>And sure, carrying one, or a few small planes is possible. But real combat planes are heavier, they require more fuel, ammunition is heavy, especially if we want something beyond basic machine gun rounds. And of course we will need crew, including life support. Leaving the planes hanging under the belly is no good if we want to do basically any kind of maintenance, even loading ammunition could be tricky in this position. But an indoor hangar, and mechanisms for getting planes in and out is just more weight. Realistically we will end up with way fewer and smaller planes than any seaborne aircraft carrier can support.<p>There are suggestions of adding something reminiscent of ship deck guns, but there is no way we have weight budget for that with all the planes, and I doubt the frame of the whole ship is actually rigid enough to absorb the shock of firing a big cannon. I think some light machine gun placements will have to do.<p>We also got the suggestion of the whole thing flying so high that it would be out of range of land-based AA weapons. That sounds neat, but the higher we want to fly, the less lift we get per volume, and we already spend a good part of the lift on just the hull, engines and fuel, we can&#x27;t actually go terribly high before the number of planes supported drops to 0.<p>But for all this trouble, we will get a fortress in the sky! A fortress made of balsa wood and paper-thin skin that is. Minor bullet holes is one thing, the helium leaks really really slowly. But say someone drops a fire bomb on top of the hull, helium rushing out might extinguish the fire, but not until there is already a pretty big hole for that helium to rush out through. Basically our carrier is really big, really expensive, and really easy to hit.
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dredmorbius大约 1 年前
We have had flying aircraft carriers in practice and a far more viable form since the advent of air-launched missiles in 1947.<p>Today, as several other comments have noted, cargo aircraft launching drone swarms are the most likely future development (along with further missile development). Cargo aircraft have vast capacity in both mass and volume. Drones which dispense with the need to support a human pilot, and can operate one-way &#x2F; kamakazi mode (though return flight is an option), and often have limited top speeds and ranges, make far more sense than a lightweight (and typically limited-capability) manned fighter or bomber.<p>Another line of nontraditional aircraft carriers are those based on submarines, with the Japanese deploying several during WWII (these enacted the only Japanese aerial attacks on the US mainland, near Santa Barbara and along the Oregon coast), and I believe there was a Soviet study (possibly 941-BIS) to develop a large-scale submarine aircraft carrier. As with airborne aircraft carriers, submarine-as-missile-launch-platform (ballistic or cruise) is far more practicable.
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JumpCrisscross大约 1 年前
“The Lockheed CL-1201 was a design study by Lockheed for a giant 6,000 ton nuclear-powered transport aircraft in the late 1960s. One envisioned use of the concept was as an airborne aircraft carrier” [1]. (Also watch [2].)<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Lockheed_CL-1201" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Lockheed_CL-1201</a><p>[2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;nebula.tv&#x2F;videos&#x2F;mustard-the-largest-aircraft-never-built-the-lockheed-cl1201&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;nebula.tv&#x2F;videos&#x2F;mustard-the-largest-aircraft-never-...</a>
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mcmoor大约 1 年前
Flying Aircraft Carrier never make sense to me. It needs some kind of weird technology or economy of scale that allows the carrier to float more easily than the thing it carries by its own. Because otherwise, why don&#x27;t the carried plane employ the same technology and ditch the carrier entirely?<p>Zeppelin used to be that because it can stay in the air more indefinitely while sacrificing almost everything else (speed, maneuverability, etc) but when planes beat it at even that, zeppelin usability just disappears.
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BMc2020大约 1 年前
I&#x27;d be remiss if I didn&#x27;t mention <i>Missile Gap</i> by Charles Stross<p><i>Yuri Gagarin captains a huge, nuclear-powered Ekranoplan on behalf of the Soviets</i><p>Set on a sort of alternate Earth in a sort of alternate 1986, The Ekranoplan is so huge it has a runway long enough for Mig fighters on top.<p>When he is given the mission by the Russian Premier, he is told to &quot;boldly go where no soviet man has gone before.&quot;
nikolaj大约 1 年前
how could they forget to mention the Talespin Iron Vulture when talking fictional versions!.. that will always be my vision of a flying aircraft carrier!<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;talespin.fandom.com&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Iron_Vulture" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;talespin.fandom.com&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Iron_Vulture</a>
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cratermoon大约 1 年前
The article mentions nuclear-powered aircraft, but doesn&#x27;t go into much detail. There were two reactors built, HTRE-2, and HTRE-3. They&#x27;re currently on display, sitting on railroad flatcars in Idaho, sitting next to the parking lot of the Experimental Breeder Reactor I (EBR-I).
kcrwfrd_大约 1 年前
Carrier has arrived!
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MrDresden大约 1 年前
The Youtube&#x2F;Nebula creator &#x27;Mustard&#x27; has been mentioned a few times here already, and rightfully so as their videos have really high production values and obviously plenty of research behind them.<p>Since I don&#x27;t see it linked, they also made an excellent video[0] on the real life soviet aircraft mothership Tupolev TB1&#x2F;TB3 which is mentioned in the OP article.<p>[0]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=IjCylxs8hZU" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=IjCylxs8hZU</a>
theiz大约 1 年前
Of all this amazing stuff, I learned today they were considering using solar panels on a zeppelin in 1936. I really though solar panels were from the 1980’s onwards.
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lettergram大约 1 年前
They missed the part where the Soviet Union actually flew missions with their flying air craft carriers.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;IjCylxs8hZU?feature=shared" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;IjCylxs8hZU?feature=shared</a><p>They were largely successful too.
GartzenDeHaes大约 1 年前
Another cool fictional flying carrier is the Banshee from the anime Yukikaze <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=_MBSrqypm2M" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=_MBSrqypm2M</a>
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zubairq大约 1 年前
Some amazing images of the future looking at these flying aircraft carriers! Makes me think of when I was a kid in the 70s and 80s and looking at magazines where everything looked bright in the future!
rekoros大约 1 年前
This is so weird - I just finished watching &quot;Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow&quot; on Max, then opened HN, and flying aircraft carriers is #1. How does HN know what I&#x27;m watching on Max??
nox101大约 1 年前
Flying aircraft carriers always seemed like a particularly bad idea to me. Too fragile, a small amount of damage would knock them out of the sky. No?
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mrwubbzy大约 1 年前
ekranoplan aircraft carriers go hard <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;FromTheDepths&#x2F;comments&#x2F;ouckug&#x2F;ussr_flying_aircraft_carrier_concept&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;FromTheDepths&#x2F;comments&#x2F;ouckug&#x2F;ussr_...</a>
mrwubbzy大约 1 年前
theres people working on this now <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;FromTheDepths&#x2F;comments&#x2F;ouckug&#x2F;ussr_flying_aircraft_carrier_concept&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;FromTheDepths&#x2F;comments&#x2F;ouckug&#x2F;ussr_...</a>
Solvency大约 1 年前
today, far more likely to have a mothership drone that shoots drones out.
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