This episode of A Podcast of Unnecessary Detail has a bit about this subject (from the same person): <a href="https://pca.st/episode/1afa018f-a8ba-47de-a00b-e5f105a11f8d" rel="nofollow">https://pca.st/episode/1afa018f-a8ba-47de-a00b-e5f105a11f8d</a>