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What if dreaming is the whole point of sleep?

85 点作者 kristianpaul大约 1 年前

20 条评论

tomohelix大约 1 年前
A little thing I realize upon reading about all the brain study is how bad we are at reverse engineering a totally alien &quot;computer&quot;.<p>In popular media, human is often depicted as some super scavenger that can exploit and adapt alien technology to their own in a matter of 1-2 lifetimes. And yet here we are in reality, after thousands of years with abundant and intimate access to one of the most efficient and most capable information processor known to us, and we are still absolutely clueless about how it work.<p>The closest thing we built to mimic it cost maybe a million times more energy and perform a fraction of the functions of the original one. So much for &quot;reverse engineering&quot;.
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junto大约 1 年前
I’ve always considered dreaming to be a daily disk defragmentation process where they bolted extreme Winamp visualizations on top to make it more interesting.
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throwaway888abc大约 1 年前
fixed link <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theguardian.com&#x2F;books&#x2F;2024&#x2F;apr&#x2F;22&#x2F;the-big-idea-what-if-dreaming-is-the-whole-point-of-sleep" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theguardian.com&#x2F;books&#x2F;2024&#x2F;apr&#x2F;22&#x2F;the-big-idea-w...</a>
gjjydfhgd大约 1 年前
Sleep might have multiple purposes.<p>There is some recent research that some chemicals are flushed through the brain during sleep to remove byproducts. Why that can&#x27;t happen without sleep is another interesting question.
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FailMore大约 1 年前
In the article, the author writes:<p>&gt; Why devote this kind of energy to the creation of wildly imaginative and highly emotional nocturnal experiences for an audience of one?<p>I think that this is a mistake. The audience size is greater than one.<p>The author also writes that dreams “[give] us outrageous scenarios so we can better understand the everyday, serving as an overnight therapist”. I believe this is a multiplayer game.<p>I am a psychotherapist (in training). When people report their dreams, they normally do not mention their own behaviour. However, when their behaviour is investigated it often looks odd given the “outrageous scenario” they are in. More specifically, the behaviour often reveals clear displays of their unconscious interpersonal anxieties that their waking symptomology only opaquely reveals. An example, might be someone who is “shy” when awake behaving in an outrageously passive way, when in a confrontation; a confrontation that their waking shyness - which might include symptoms which mean they avoid contact with others - would have meant that they would not have had. It is no surprise that people do not typically report their own behaviour within dreams, as that is the nature of unconscious beliefs - we think they are unremarkable and true. Often an outsider is required to notice that the behaviour is unusual given the “outrageous situation” - often the role of a therapist (who shares this theory on dreams).<p>In the paper linked below, I outline many examples of this, and discuss the surprisingly specific supporting neurology:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;osf.io&#x2F;preprints&#x2F;psyarxiv&#x2F;k6trz" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;osf.io&#x2F;preprints&#x2F;psyarxiv&#x2F;k6trz</a><p>This paper was discussed on Hacker News previously. The link to that discussion is:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=19143590">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=19143590</a>
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blamazon大约 1 年前
&gt; The rational, executive network in the brain is switched off, and the imaginative, visual and emotional parts are dialled way up. As a result, the dreaming mind is given free rein in a way that has no parallel in our waking lives. We couldn’t think this way when we are awake even if we tried.<p>I read this and felt compelled to say this reminds me of how psychedelics like LSD and psilocybin work :)
silisili大约 1 年前
There&#x27;s a decent hypothesis about the reason for dreaming, but it&#x27;s a bit absurd to call it the whole point of sleep.<p>As a person with severe insomnia, often going several days without sleep, you absolutely start breaking down without sleep. Brain zaps, hearing things, seeing things, etc. I&#x27;ve read people have even died in severe cases.<p>So it feels like there&#x27;s a medical necessity that&#x27;s the whole point. Whether dreams are a neat side effect of said process or a purposeful side project of sorts is worthy of debate, however.
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rkagerer大约 1 年前
If dreaming is the point, then my dog has mastered the skill. Until I met him I never considered dogs could dream so prolifically.<p>I wish I could plug a TV into his brain and watch the reel running through it.
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surfingdino大约 1 年前
Interesting article.<p>&gt; (...) given the many potential benefits of dreaming for our waking life, maybe it’s not the sleep we really need, but the dreams.<p>Waiting for the pot brigade to use that sentence as a conversation starter...<p>We need sleep to recover physically. Like really need it. Anyone who has done physical exercise or just work and tried to rest in other ways will learn that sleep is the best way to rest.
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bloppe大约 1 年前
If subjectively experiencing a dream were &quot;the whole point&quot; of sleep, that would make it pretty hard to explain why total sleep deprivation is fatal. Clearly there are far more important things going on physiologically during sleep.<p>Can dreams be therapeutic? I&#x27;d wager that happens just about as often as they&#x27;re psychologically harmful. And both of those outcomes are far less frequent than completely forgetting your dreams.<p>A silly article.
Animats大约 1 年前
Dreaming may be when the weights get re-trained.
m463大约 1 年前
I&#x27;ve read we rehearse things in our dreams. If we played tennis one day, we simulate playing tennis in our dreams that night, and the next day we are better at tennis.<p>I also kind of wonder - does sleep have an evolutionary function to not move and not make noise during the night to patiently pass the time of night predators?
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nextaccountic大约 1 年前
Link is broken (has an extra p at the end, sleepp rather than sleep) and ends up in a page saying &quot;Sorry – we haven’t been able to serve the page you asked for.&quot;, here is it fixed<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theguardian.com&#x2F;books&#x2F;2024&#x2F;apr&#x2F;22&#x2F;the-big-idea-what-if-dreaming-is-the-whole-point-of-sleep" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theguardian.com&#x2F;books&#x2F;2024&#x2F;apr&#x2F;22&#x2F;the-big-idea-w...</a><p>@dang maybe you should fix the link?
Urgo大约 1 年前
Looks like The Guardian may have had a typo (-sleepp) in their url, fixed it, and didn&#x27;t redirect traffic from the typo to the new url. Either way here is the working url:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theguardian.com&#x2F;books&#x2F;2024&#x2F;apr&#x2F;22&#x2F;the-big-idea-what-if-dreaming-is-the-whole-point-of-sleep" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theguardian.com&#x2F;books&#x2F;2024&#x2F;apr&#x2F;22&#x2F;the-big-idea-w...</a>
vfinn大约 1 年前
One thing I believe is that the less you&#x27;re involved in fantasy, the more realistic your dreams are. So if you&#x27;re a simple, practical man without beliefs in supernatural, your dreams will be about daily life; but if you read fantasy and have superstitious beliefs and watch a lot of movies, you will have more complex and bizarre dreams. I mean, it&#x27;s hard to dream about something you haven&#x27;t encountered.
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huppeldepup大约 1 年前
Dreaming stopped for me after being put on Trazodone. In some the medication induces nightmares or vivid dreams, not for me. I can testify that dreams contribute a lot to the perceived quality of sleep. In recent months I&#x27;ve had a few very short dreams. They&#x27;re dull, bland, nothing much happens. I feel robbed of a part of my life. I took Trazodone for about a year, now some 8 years ago.
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markhahn大约 1 年前
Glymphatic drainage is the &quot;point&quot; (in the sense of &quot;kill you if you don&#x27;t do it&quot;).<p>And it&#x27;s typical of evolution to use the behavior for several other purposes...
indigoabstract大约 1 年前
You have a typo in the url. Otherwise, very interesting article!
galaxyLogic大约 1 年前
Seems that dreams are needed, but the article doesn&#x27;t really give a good explanation why
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luxuryballs大约 1 年前
2-3g of lions mane mushroom before bed greatly enhances dreams and vividness, also happens to be easier to wake up, a more refreshing sleep