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Ideal OS: Rebooting the Desktop Operating System (2017)

83 点作者 mmphosis11 个月前

20 条评论

joshmarinacci11 个月前
Original author here. I have no idea how my 7 year old post made it to the front page today, but I’m happy to say that the situation is even worse than it was back then. Desktop OSes are even more bloated and less under user control since then.
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aredox11 个月前
The state of desktop paradigms has been one of great stagnation, if not outright regression. The VR fad is never going anywhere: its problems are an order of magnitude worse and engineers and companies nowadays seem unable to do basic 2D interface right.
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TrevorFSmith11 个月前
It's interesting to me that this article was written ~seven years ago and already feels thoroughly outdated. The core problem is that its basic premise is that we need to scratch-write an OS that is essentially the Alto WIMP (1972), a few BeOS features (1995), and questionable improvements like forcing apps through a messaging bus a la Smalltalk (1972) or CORBA (1991). It isn't that the individual ideas are bad, per se, but if you're going to suggest write an OS from scratch then it really should be significantly different and inherently impossible to make by tweaking an existing OS, of which there are so, so many. Just an unbelievable number of OS options.
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abcde77766611 个月前
It's easy to make something lean when you can start from scratch. Backwards compatibility and large user bases resistant to change are overlooked as primary causal factors of the modern state of affairs, imo.
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zzo38computer11 个月前
I wrote a response but it is too long (11019 bytes is too long, apparently). (I have saved a copy on my computer, so that I may post it later (fully or partially).)<p>But, I have commented about most of the article, and about my own ideas of operating system design (which is capability-based); there are some similarities, but many things are done differently. However, some of the functionality they describe would be possible with how my ideas are doing, too.
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gavinhoward11 个月前
This is almost making me want to try out <i>my</i> ideas.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gavinhoward.com&#x2F;2024&#x2F;05&#x2F;a-new-architecture-for-a-gui-framework&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gavinhoward.com&#x2F;2024&#x2F;05&#x2F;a-new-architecture-for-a-gui...</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gavinhoward.com&#x2F;2024&#x2F;05&#x2F;a-better-os-design&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;gavinhoward.com&#x2F;2024&#x2F;05&#x2F;a-better-os-design&#x2F;</a>
Qxliang11 个月前
Is getting rid of command line interfaces really a good idea?I don&#x27;t think so,a lot of people work with and are fond of the CLI tool.
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danybittel11 个月前
&quot;Essentially every application on my computer is a silo.&quot;<p>So true. And so is every company. They have very little incentives to make your data accessible. Or is it &quot;their&quot; data?<p>You can also go &quot;turtles all the way down&quot;... and discover: the object oriented programming model. It also hides, eh &quot;encapsulates&quot; your data, you only get access through messages.<p>This is what operating systems are build on. And it works very well for Microsoft &#x2F; Apple &#x2F; Google.<p>I think Unix had the right idea. Make the data part of the outside and programs only process this data. Programs should be stateless.<p>Unfortunately Unix kind of got stuck in the text based world. Text is really great, because it&#x27;s so visible. But there is no reason binary data can&#x27;t be the same. You&#x27;d need to develop general purpose binary file format. That can be opened and edited outside of any application. Which would let you extract for example a single image of a video to edit in a paint app.<p>Then make all of this live update, so that the mouse for example is just a struct with position and other data you can use everywhere.<p>Then let us have history on all the data.
scroot11 个月前
Just think about the new kind of OS one could make when the computing system is built entirely of low-level actors. uFork [1] is a promising example, and has clear motivations [2].<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;organix&#x2F;uFork">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;organix&#x2F;uFork</a><p>[2] <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.dalnefre.com&#x2F;wp&#x2F;2022&#x2F;08&#x2F;memory-safety-simplifies-microprocessor-design&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.dalnefre.com&#x2F;wp&#x2F;2022&#x2F;08&#x2F;memory-safety-simplifies-...</a>
linguae11 个月前
This is a nice document, and many of the suggestions dovetail with my own ideas for a component-based operating system, which I wrote about in 2020 (<a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;mmcthrow-musings.blogspot.com&#x2F;2020&#x2F;04&#x2F;a-proposal-for-flexible-composable.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;mmcthrow-musings.blogspot.com&#x2F;2020&#x2F;04&#x2F;a-proposal-for-...</a>) but haven’t had the time to work on. I wonder if there’s been any follow-up work on Ideal OS?
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scroot11 个月前
Every time I boot up Squeak, I think about what the desktop os could have been had all the millions of dollars and hours of work gone in that direction instead
HKH211 个月前
Why not just build your OS on top of Linux? Then you can get driver support at least.
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nuudlman11 个月前
A lot of this seems like it&#x27;s done by Arcan (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;arcan-fe.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;arcan-fe.com</a>)
debo_11 个月前
The author&#x27;s most recent post on this topic is here (2022): <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;joshondesign.com&#x2F;2022&#x2F;09&#x2F;21&#x2F;idealos_mark6" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;joshondesign.com&#x2F;2022&#x2F;09&#x2F;21&#x2F;idealos_mark6</a>
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eviks11 个月前
Very sad article, so much wasted productivity potential... And it&#x27;s no better today, unfortunately<p>&gt; Why can&#x27;t I have a file in two places at once on my filesystem?<p>Hard links do that, but as usual the UI around this isn&#x27;t great
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joshmarinacci11 个月前
If you want to know what I’m currently working on, and that helps in my prototypes: check out <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;docs.trunk.io&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;docs.trunk.io&#x2F;</a>
deathanatos11 个月前
Part of me wonders how much of this is hardware vendors releasing unusable hardware. I don&#x27;t know what the hangup on the RPi is (that seems odd, given how prevalent Linux on the RPi is) but that &amp; the keyboard RGB LEDs seems like your bog standard &quot;the hardware can&#x27;t or if it can, the vendor didn&#x27;t bother to document anything&quot;. The FOSS world has done an incredible amount of work reverse engineering over the years, but the behavior of HW companies are more to blame, and that&#x27;s not a problem you&#x27;ll solve with tech.<p>But hardware vendors have for years, and still do, just say &quot;our use case, or the highway, you don&#x27;t really own the thing you&#x27;re buying.&quot; And there&#x27;s not much out there for one to &quot;vote with one&#x27;s wallet&quot; on it.<p>&quot;FS can&#x27;t store a file in two spots&quot; … I want to accuse OP of being a Windows user, but they&#x27;re obviously not [only]. So that&#x27;s … an odd critique?<p>I still think hierarchical+symlinks beats trying to tag stuff, and I&#x27;ve lived through enough decades of AI trying to tag stuff and deciding things like that Mozart is &quot;Rap [explicit]&quot;. I don&#x27;t have the mental capacity for it. Just give me the dumb hierarchy with (sym)links. (And bind mounts.) (But I wouldn&#x27;t oppose an OS trying it.)<p>&quot;Let&#x27;s ditch all IPC&quot; … buuuut adds IPC right back in. Okay :). I suppose it&#x27;s &quot;only message passing&quot;. (And I do think message passing is a great default, and what most things need.)<p>&quot;Native apps are bloated&quot;. The most bloated apps I have are all the Electron ones. I don&#x27;t think most people are concluding this...<p>I&#x27;d love a multi-item clipboard, but the devil is in the details: sensitive items and large transfers.<p>&gt; <i>it&#x27;s the pure text nature that bothers me. Instead of chaining CLI apps together with text streams we need something richer, like serialized object streams (think JSON but more efficient).</i><p>You have to consider the bulk cases. But very much yes; I wish at least that Unix had settled on <i>typed</i> bytestreams, like MIME+stream, and some form of content negotiation. Unix scripts are rife with examples of `a | b` where a &amp; b speak different formats and I feel like it took forever to get good tooling around strongly specified formats (instead of just bullshitting with awk&#x2F;grep&#x2F;cut&#x2F;tr&#x2F;etc.) with tools like jq, yq, xsv, etc. I just wish applications could just have a means to understand &quot;oh, I&#x27;m getting this kind of data&quot; or &quot;I have no idea what this is, and I shouldn&#x27;t just GIGO&quot;.<p>&gt; <i>In our new OS every window is tab dockable. Or side dockable. Or something else</i><p>Have you tried a tiling WM?<p>If you design an OS ... make the FS Unicode only, and ban &quot;\n&quot; from filenames. Life will be simpler.
renox11 个月前
It&#x27;s funny this article is technically correct but also totally wrong: if you can&#x27;t run the application(web browser, game, office suite) you want on an OS, it maybe the &#x27;Ideal&#x27; OS you&#x27;re still going back to Windows..
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andsoitis11 个月前
&gt; Twitter user ekse has graciously translated this blog to Chinese.<p>How far we&#x27;ve come.
janice199911 个月前
This article predates Apple&#x27;s visionOS. I wonder what the author&#x27;s take on it would be.
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