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DRAKON

213 点作者 instagraham9 个月前

14 条评论

jawns9 个月前
I&#x27;ve used the (free) <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;drakonhub.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;drakonhub.com</a> service to create Drakon diagrams, and I&#x27;ve been able to express some pretty sophisticated workflows in a clear, intuitive way.<p>One of the things I love about it is that it is orderly by design. You&#x27;ve probably seen those scary flowcharts where arrows are pointing willy-nilly, criss-crossing each other, and there&#x27;s very little cohesion. Drakon charts help avoid that by being relatively prescriptive about _where_ diagram components are placed. For instance, the happy path should form a skewer shape.<p>The &quot;Diagramming is different with DrakonHub&quot; section of <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;drakonhub.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;drakonhub.com</a> shows you the difference well.
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0xbadcafebee9 个月前
We really do live in a dark age. Rather than use WYSIWYGs to take advantage of better formatting and layout, all docs are in the crappiest format, Markdown. Rather than design GUIs using a visual language to quickly mock up interfaces, we manually code out command-line tools. We hand-craft text to style an interface, and have to constantly type, ship, view, edit, ship, view, between people with 3 different skillsets, and reinvent the wheel of application design in an application platform designed for document viewing. Rather than develop and adopt open standards for common tasks, everything has a custom interface, and all interfaces require custom integrations, so that nothing ever works with anything unless someone spends 100 hours tying it together with glue code. And rather than compose code visually in a program that validates it in real time (like CAD), we type out line by line, and use a slew of cobbled together tools and basic tests to check if what we typed has any glaring errors.<p>With the most advanced technology in the history of the world, we&#x27;ve somehow made it more expensive, time-consuming, complicated and buggy to do things we did 20+ years ago.
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buescher9 个月前
I really like two things about the Drakon docs I&#x27;ve perused:<p>1) They show how to draw a really clean flowchart, which is a bit of a lost art. I&#x27;m not a big fan of flowcharts - IME it seems like the biggest fans are, weirdly, mechanical engineers of a certain age - but hey<p>2) They show how to do a clean depiction of a state machine in flowchart format, which might come in handy for someone, somewhere <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;drakonhub.com&#x2F;files&#x2F;lift.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;drakonhub.com&#x2F;files&#x2F;lift.html</a><p>Also, as a sort of meta-comment, I noticed that we have two comments from people doing workflow programming (presumably Sharepoint or similar, which I&#x27;m 100% sure gets no love or respect, but is super useful if you need it) who found these approaches useful. Workflow is a great use case for graphical programming; in a related vein, a hobby horse of an old friend is that a good graphical environment for devops would change the industry.<p>The Russian wikipedia page (in auto-translate for me) has a ton more detail and history. I&#x27;m not going to a deep dive but I&#x27;m also not so sure about the claim that there&#x27;s no history of aerospace use.
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grumblepeet9 个月前
After reading about this and the methodologies many years ago I implemented many of the precepts into my practice at the time (visual programming using a variety of workflow tools) and it really helped to prevent sprawl that is common with drag and drop workflow interfaces. It helps to enforce that discipline of not straying too far away from the desired path and handling exceptions. If it strays too far to the right then you know you need to look at things again and refactor. Worth reading.
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trhway9 个月前
And for people who like such things, i raise a monster (dreamt on by an European telecommunications committee) that i fairly enjoyed working on 30+ years ago (you enjoy such things when you&#x27;re young and new to the tech and it was the time when seemingly everybody was excited about diagramming&#x2F;CASE&#x2F;etc. :) - CCITT Z.100 SDL - diagramming language originally for the telecommunication systems, kind of an actor model with channels, messages, etc., all formally specified and diagrammed (less practical spiritual cousin of Erlang)<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;guminski.net&#x2F;pg&#x2F;Z100.pdf" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;guminski.net&#x2F;pg&#x2F;Z100.pdf</a>
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Archit3ch9 个月前
Once you start noticing this design language, you&#x27;ll see it everywhere.<p>For instance, in software&#x2F;hardware audio processing you may load processing blocks. Typically they are arranged left-to-right, but MaxMSP can be top-to-bottom.
dang9 个月前
Related:<p><i>The DRAKON Language</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=36021495">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=36021495</a> - May 2023 (38 comments)<p><i>Why aren&#x27;t there more visual programming languages? (An ode to DRAKON)</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=35712086">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=35712086</a> - April 2023 (2 comments)<p><i>Ask HN: Anyone knows a flowchart programming better&#x2F;more modern than DRAKON?</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=26137769">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=26137769</a> - Feb 2021 (1 comment)<p><i>The Human Revolution in Understanding Programs [pdf]</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=19160248">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=19160248</a> - Feb 2019 (6 comments)<p><i>Drakon: a visual language for specifications from the Russian space program</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=12638032">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=12638032</a> - Oct 2016 (39 comments)<p><i>DRAKON – An algorithmic visual programming language</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=10100932">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=10100932</a> - Aug 2015 (48 comments)<p><i>Drakon – A visual language for specifications from the Russian space program</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=6429283">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=6429283</a> - Sept 2013 (28 comments)<p><i>Use DRAKON to Automatically Generate Code from Flowcharts</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=5497668">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=5497668</a> - April 2013 (1 comment)
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instagraham9 个月前
Documentation here: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;drakonhub.com&#x2F;en&#x2F;drakon" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;drakonhub.com&#x2F;en&#x2F;drakon</a>
lovegrenoble9 个月前
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;drakon.su" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;drakon.su</a>
learn_more9 个月前
If you like diagrams that are also interactive via topological graph queries, See:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;schematix.com&#x2F;video&#x2F;depmap&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;schematix.com&#x2F;video&#x2F;depmap&#x2F;</a>
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surfingdino9 个月前
Personally, I have always preferred <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Prograph" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Prograph</a>
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jmartin26839 个月前
You’d have to be really terrible at writing code for anything like this to be ‘easier’.
cyberax9 个月前
Ugh. Them again.<p>It&#x27;s pretty interesting that they failed to produce any project of a reasonable size, after literally _decades_ of pushing DRAKON as the best tool ever for &quot;reliable code&quot;.
troupo9 个月前
It&#x27;s amazing that this keeps being submitted to HN and keeps being featured.<p>The people pushing this couldn&#x27;t come up with a way to represent a simple quicksort in it [1]. Why does this keep appearing?<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;forum.drakon.su&#x2F;viewtopic.php?f=78&amp;t=6124&amp;hilit=quicksort&amp;start=0" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;forum.drakon.su&#x2F;viewtopic.php?f=78&amp;t=6124&amp;hilit=quic...</a>
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