NASA announces Boeing Starliner crew will return on SpaceX Crew-9

Boeing was awarded more money for their vehicle, had years of extra time and two previous demonstration flights. This flight should have been close to flawless given the additional time Boeing had for remediation and testing. Boeing engineers should have understood their systems well enough to convincingly demonstrate the vehicle met NASA's safety requirements. Even after much additional testing during the flight they couldn't make their case. Starliner will probably complete its third uncrewed return intact and people might question if NASA was being overly cautious but perhaps Boeing should have supplied a crewed vehicle with reliable thrusters and avoided this embarrassment.

I wonder if there are books or articles that analyze how and why Boeing declined so fast and so spectacularly. Boeing used to be able to build 747 under budget and ahead of schedule, just like Lockheed could dazzle the world by creating U2 ahead of schedule and under budget with fewer than 200 people (or &lt; 100?) in 15 months with the cost of a few millions. It can&#x27;t be just the change of geopolitics post Cold War, right? It can&#x27;t be just that the fixed-margin structure imposed by the government, right? It can&#x27;t be just the mismanagement or the greed of the leadership, right? It can&#x27;t just be that Boeing is in the phase of accelerated decline as any old-enough company, right?<p>I&#x27;m curious about such questions because on a larger scheme of the things, I really hope that Boeing is not a miniature reflection of the US - an empire in its twilight that got entangled in irreconcilable interests, doomed to watch its own inevitable decline.

I dont blame NASA, who knows what else is wrong with that capsule.<p>I feel bad for Boeing. Though to be honest when I worked on a project where we were a Boeing sub (defense)we didn’t really care for them..<p>Competition is good, and it’s sad they can’t get their act together. Hopefully someone else will, though it will take years. The problem with Boeing is they seem to treat all their projects like the non competitive defense space..

A few tidbits&#x2F;notes I took:<p>- They&#x27;ll reconfigure Crew-8 for 6 occupants for contingency evac between Starliner undock and Crew-9 arrival.<p>- Starliner leaving ISS autonomously early September<p>- Crew 9 launching no later than Sept 24th with 2 crew + 2 empty seats<p>- Crew 9 coming back down in ~Feb 2025

Excellent news! Thank you NASA for making the right human and engineering decision.<p>This was news to me tho, &quot;and Dragon-specific spacesuits for Wilmore and Williams.&quot; The spacesuits are specific to the vehicle?<p>Changing my underwear so I can drive to hardware store.

It&#x27;s crazy to me that while we&#x27;ve been fantasizing about lunar bases, Mars settlements, asteroid mining and colony ships, now, 60+ years after our &quot;space&quot; era started, we still haven&#x27;t figured out how to get a single person to low Earth orbit and back in a safe and cost efficient way. We all need a collective reality check on our spacefaring hopes.

Article on nasa.gov:<p>&quot;NASA Decides to Bring Starliner Spacecraft Back to Earth Without Crew&quot;<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nasa.gov&#x2F;news-release&#x2F;nasa-decides-to-bring-starliner-spacecraft-back-to-earth-without-crew&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nasa.gov&#x2F;news-release&#x2F;nasa-decides-to-bring-star...</a><p>@dang this seems like a better link, could it replace the current one?

NASA press conference ongoing: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=AGOswKRSsHc" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=AGOswKRSsHc</a><p>(Bottom line: they couldn&#x27;t tell what was up with the thrusters, and didn&#x27;t want to bet anyone&#x27;s life on it not getting worse.)

There was an... interesting reddit thread 3 hours before the announcement leaking the decision. I&#x27;ll just let you enjoy the thread yourself:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;wallstreetbets&#x2F;comments&#x2F;1f062o0&#x2F;boeing_is_crashing_in_3_hours&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;wallstreetbets&#x2F;comments&#x2F;1f062o0&#x2F;boe...</a><p>OR<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;old.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;wallstreetbets&#x2F;comments&#x2F;1f062o0&#x2F;boeing_is_crashing_in_3_hours&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;old.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;wallstreetbets&#x2F;comments&#x2F;1f062o0&#x2F;boe...</a>

This was the only way this could ever play out. After all of Boeing’s last five years, even if 100% unrelated, no bureaucrat anywhere would take that risk. If something goes wrong, you’re the idiot who put the astronauts on a vehicle from a company who has had a long string of recent failures.<p>Even at the best of times space travel is risky, why tie your career to that?

Nasa website still obfuscating.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nasa.gov&#x2F;news-release&#x2F;nasa-decides-to-bring-starliner-spacecraft-back-to-earth-without-crew&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nasa.gov&#x2F;news-release&#x2F;nasa-decides-to-bring-star...</a><p>Practically nobody was asking &quot;how are they bringing back starliner?&quot;<p>Practically everyone was asking &quot;how are the astronauts returning?&quot;

What a massive embarrassment for NASA and Boeing. Boeing name used to mean something, now it’s joined the rest of the junk in this modern world.

Many of you might assume that Starliner is a cost-plus contract. Cost-plus contracts are common for large capital projects but they often end up running way over budget because the provider is essentially incentivized for budget overruns because they get paid more.<p>It turns out Starliner is a fixed-price contract (for $4.2 billion). So when Starliner had an issue a couple of years ago Boeing was forced to do another test and eat the launch cost. We ened more of this.<p>SLS (and Artemis?), for example, is largely done by cost-plus contracts.<p>It&#x27;s common for companies and governments to want to have more than one supplier so they can&#x27;t so easily be price-gouged (which doesn&#x27;t really work but that&#x27;s a separate topic). SpaceX got a $2.6 billion contract for Crew Dragon and its launch cost has to be substantially lower than Starliner&#x27;s.<p>So NASA will still push Starliner for this reason. But this whole debacle is deeply embarrasing for Boeing, so much so that people at the top may actually get fired. That&#x27;s really rare for the executives responsible for a strategy to be held accountable for its failures.<p>Boeing is just not in a great place and I honestly don&#x27;t know how you right the ship at this point. A fish rots from the head and I imagine Boeing has descended into warring fiefdoms where some VPs just try and increase their head counts so they can get promoted to SVP.

Since there are no people on board…… I hope it blows up

I doubt NASA wants to put 4 astronauts on the next Starliner flight. So if NASA declares this crewed flight test a failure and requires a redo (and possibly even reverting back to a third out of one planned uncrewed flight test), Boeing is still on the hook for their operational 6 crewed flights.<p>Here&#x27;s the problem: Starliner flies in the Atlas 5 rocket. Which is officially deprecated and all of the vehicles that will ever built have been booked. Which would mean that Boeing has to nicely ask Project Kepler for one (or more) or their remaining Atlas 5 slots. All of this also pushes back the final flight of the Atlas 5. Starliner already has 5 years where it&#x27;s the only mission in that rocket, requiring hardware and operational knowledge to be on retainer just for Starliner. At least the pad that launches Starliner can also do Vulcan launches, so they won&#x27;t be hogging a launch pad just for this problematic program.

At least this saves Dave Calhoun becoming a vital participant in the 2024 Senate hearings on missing astronauts.

So, what happens if it <i>does</i> blow up, or otherwise has a catastrophic failure on re-entry? Will we be able to say for certain if it was due to Starliner’s faults, or just the fact that there wasn’t a human pilot?<p>All Boeing hate aside this is a learning experience for everyone involved.

So when is the uncrewed flight back? I wanna watch.

Embarrassing, NASA has been downplaying the seriousness of this for months.<p>Boeing is cooked. SLS should be scrapped. There has got to be consequences for over spending, under delivering, and outright failing.

Nasa&#x27;s full announcement here: &lt;<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nasa.gov&#x2F;news-release&#x2F;nasa-decides-to-bring-starliner-spacecraft-back-to-earth-without-crew&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nasa.gov&#x2F;news-release&#x2F;nasa-decides-to-bring-star...</a>&gt;<p>(From an alternate submission, I&#x27;d recommended that URL be substituted for the Twitter link.)

Can somebody convince Musk to start making planes now? Flying on Boeings is kinda getting scary now, and Airbus standing alone is not healthy.

The only sensible choice. Glad to see NASA make the right call. Putting the lives of the crew over expedience is the correct priority.

Common sense has finally prevailed. IMO Boeing fought this tooth and nail because of Musk, risking the lives of the astronauts to save corporate face. Heads should roll but Boeing is too big to fail, to big to jail, and the executives will make out with a golden parachute in the end.

key point:<p>NASA and BOEING disagreed on whether it was safe for Starliner to depart to Earth with astronauts.....<p>I think it might be time to short Boeing stock....

It seems that for Boeing management, engineering is an annoying nuisance that gets in the way of making money.

I wonder if the astronauts get some type of extra-pay for the time when they are in space. It feels they they should. If that&#x27;s the case, these 2 astronauts got quite lucky. They were supposed to stay only a few days in orbit, and they end up staying a few months.

&gt;“Starliner is a very capable spacecraft and, ultimately, this comes down to needing a higher level of certainty to perform a crewed return,” said Steve Stich, manager of NASA’s Commercial Crew Program. “The NASA and Boeing teams have completed a tremendous amount of testing and analysis, and this flight test is providing critical information on Starliner’s performance in space. Our efforts will help prepare for the uncrewed return and will greatly benefit future corrective actions for the spacecraft.”<p>&quot;we think its gonna blow up&quot;

Boeing will probably sue the manufacturer of the failed RCS thrusters in the next year.

The most bonkers thing to me is how Starliner was allowed to fly with crew on board when it was on the pad leaking helium. This leaking was known and ongoing for hours and they let it fly anyway.

Are there any more detailed technical reports about the current starliner problems out there yet? All I can find are a few paragraphs in press releases. Maybe we just have to wait.

McDonnell Douglas bought Boeing with Boeings money. Engineering culture died and became bean-counter, lowest common denominator corporate-culture. Lobbying went up, outsourcing to third world went up, quality went down, whistleblowers fired and suppressed.<p>These organizations no longer exist for the purpose of building great products and pushing the limits of engineering. It&#x27;s easier to operate on the tit of the state and rake in billions through sleazy backroom deals and lobbying with the state acting as an artificial intermediary between cause and effect.

Boeing’s space program is effectively DOA with this. How do they recover from this? Seems like a huge win for spacex.

I&#x27;m just glad they&#x27;re prioritizing crew safety here. I don&#x27;t have a lot of trust in Boeing right now.

At first I misread that as the astronauts would come back aboard the starliner<p>And I was like...now I&#x27;m scared for them

This was the only possible outcome politically. It’s also likely the best one safety wise as well.

The problem? Agile and software. Too many monkeys trying to write a Shakespeare non masterpiece.

The problem? Agile and Software. Too many monkeys trying to write a Shakespeare non masterpiece.

For how long have they been claiming that these crew members aren’t stranded up there?

Crazy to think they would have had to be saved by Russia were it not for SpaceX.

February 2025!! Whoa.

Starliner will try to return uncrewed back to earth.

It actually disgusts me reading the boeing subreddit and how there&#x27;s comments coming from obvious traders or management being upvoted straight up lying through their teeth about this.<p>I&#x27;ll quote one:<p>&quot;It’s ridiculous. Only a few of the 27 thrusters had issues. The capsule is designed to operate with only half the thrusters.&quot;<p>(4 upvotes)<p>Obviously the reply to it straight up calls him out and exposes it, but it just shows that people around Boeing have no respect whatsoever for human safety, it&#x27;s all dollar bills to them...<p>I do not think I&#x27;d trust my life to boeing anytime soon, I do not want to be guessing mid flight if the boeing I&#x27;m on was built in the last 20 years or not (newer = less safe)

the cost of abstraction and complexity is shining through. hope the next mission goes as planned.

Hitchhikers!

This is evidence of the utter failure of constantly pumping money into a dated cartel of prime contractors that have no incentive to do better. I am very thankful we have Elon Musk to be bold enough to enter this impossibly capital heavy market and show a better way. I hope this is the start of a reset on how taxes are funneled to government contractors.

We need to nationalize Boeing and get rid of the money men who ran this company into the ground.

does the crew get paid overtime if they were to stay until Feb?

Good call.

&quot;NASA Decides&quot;, not &quot;Shitty Boeing Engineering Results In&quot;.<p>Come on NASA, place the blame where it&#x27;s due.

&quot;They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let them crash.&quot;

Elon Musk is a lot like Kelly Johnson (Lockheed Skunkworks). No company was ever able to replicate the Skunkworks, though many have tried.<p>I&#x27;ve read biographies of both - well worth reading for anyone who wants to read about great Americans.

What happens if you need to file a tax return but you can&#x27;t because your flight back from space got cancelled and you were delayed for 6 months?

If we&#x27;re going to keep Boeing around because it&#x27;s in the national security interest to have an American airplane manufacturer, we need to either nationalize it, break it up, or remove the entire leadership class. The company exists at this point for the same reason that Chase bank does: because they cannot fail, because we will not let them. The market structure will not work for this company, at least not the way corporate management is done in 2024, and if I&#x27;m the Air Force or any other branch of the US military reliant on Boeing goods, I&#x27;m not feeling particularly optimistic about my supply of Boeing parts, planes, and armaments right now.

I read &quot;A City on Mars&quot; last year, and it opened my eyes to just hard space travel is. The government constraints on aerospace projects doesn&#x27;t help. There&#x27;s a reason SpaceX moves so much faster; they don&#x27;t have to justify and explain things to taxpayers.<p>Beyond that, the book makes a good case for how unrealistic a long-term colony on Mars is... at least in the short term (Short being the next 50 to 100 years).<p>My biggest take away is: for all his talk, Musk basically just wants to be the Uber to Mars: shuttling people there and back. He don&#x27;t seem serious about _actually_ solving the problems of how to stay alive and thrive once we get there.<p>I found it sort of depressing as first, as I&#x27;d love to see people loving on Mars in my lifetime. But when I thought about it, I saw that they outlined a bunch of really important problems we should be working on as a society. The sooner we work on those problems, the better.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.acityonmars.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.acityonmars.com&#x2F;</a>

I suspect this is a component of why the presumptive president is pushing the unrealized gains tax. If Elon were forced to produce tens of billions liquid he would have to sell shares of his companies, and perhaps IPO spaceX, allowing the government to more tightly control it.