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Iron Mountain: It's Time to Talk About Hard Drives

197 点作者 severine8 个月前

25 条评论

simonw8 个月前
My understanding is that the only reliable way of long-term digital archival storage is to refresh the media you are storing things on every few years, copying the previous archives to the fresh storage.<p>Since storage constantly gets cheaper, 100GB first stored in 2001 can be stored on updated media for a fraction of that original cost in 2024.
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sgarland8 个月前
Related, CD-Rs. When I left my submarine in 2013, they (by which I mean the entire Virginia class) were still using them to store archived logs, despite my explanation that they’d be lucky to get a decade out of them. The first chosen storage location was literally the hottest part of the engine room, right in between the main engines. Easily 120+ F at all times. After protest, we moved ours to a somewhat cooler location. Still hot, and still with atmospheric oil and other fun chemicals floating around.<p>I look forward to the first time logs from a few decades ago are required, and the media is absolutely dead.<p>EDIT: they weren’t even Azo dye, they were phthalocyanine. A decade was probably generous.
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Clamchop8 个月前
They have lots of problems:<p>1. Incomplete copies with missing dependencies. 2. Old software and their file formats with a poor virtualization story. 3. Poor cataloging. 4. Obsolete physical interfaces, file systems, etc. 5. Long-term cold storage on media neither proven nor marketed for the task.<p>Managing archives is just a cost center until it isn&#x27;t, and it&#x27;s hard to predict what will have value. The worst part of this is that TFA discusses mostly music industry materials. Outside parties and the public would have a huge interest in preserving all this, but of course it&#x27;s impossible. All private, proprietary, copyrighted, and likely doomed to be lost one way or another.<p>Oh well.
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lizknope8 个月前
Tape doesn&#x27;t last forever either.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Linear_Tape-Open#Generations" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Linear_Tape-Open#Generations</a><p>LTO-1 started in 2000 and the current LTO-9 spec is from 2021. But it only has backwards compatibility for 1 to 2 generations. You can&#x27;t read an LTO-6 tape in an LTO-9 drive.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Sticky-shed_syndrome" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Sticky-shed_syndrome</a><p>&gt; Sticky-shed syndrome is a condition created by the deterioration of the binders in a magnetic tape, which hold the ferric oxide magnetizable coating to its plastic carrier, or which hold the thinner back-coating on the outside of the tape.[1] This deterioration renders the tape unusable.<p>Stiction Reversal Treatment for Magnetic Tape Media<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;katalystdm.com&#x2F;digital-transformation&#x2F;tape-transcription&#x2F;stiction-reversal-treatment&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;katalystdm.com&#x2F;digital-transformation&#x2F;tape-transcrip...</a><p>&gt; Stiction can, in many cases, be reversed to a sufficient degree, allowing data to be recovered from previously unreadable tapes. This stiction reversal method involves heating tapes over a period of 24 or more hours at specific temperatures (depending on the brand of tape involved). This process hardens the binder and will provide a window of opportunity during which data recovery can be performed. The process is by no means a permanent cure nor is it effective on all brands of tape. Certain brands of tape (eg. Memorex Green- see picture below) respond very well to this treatment. Others such as Mira 1000 appear to be largely unaffected by it.<p>Data migration and periodic verification is the answer but it requires more money to hire people to actually do it.<p>I&#x27;ve got files from 1992 but I didn&#x27;t just leave them on a 3.5&quot; floppy disk. They have migrated from floppy disk -&gt; hard drive -&gt; PD phase change optical disk -&gt; CD-R -&gt; DVD-R -&gt; back to hard drive<p>I verify all checksums twice a year and have 2 independent backups.
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bell-cot8 个月前
Policy at $Job - all <i>important</i> data is backed up to a rotation of high-quality hard drives. Which are stored off-site, powered down. Every N weeks, each one of them is powered up (in an off-line system) and checked - both with the SMART long test, and `zfs scan` (which verifies ZFS&#x27;s additional anti-bit-rot checksums for the data).<p>Yes, it&#x27;s a bit of a PITA. OTOH, modern HD&#x27;s are huge, so a relative few are needed. And we&#x27;ve lost 0 bits of our off-site data in our &gt;25 years of using that system.
bogwog8 个月前
This article is too vague. It sounds like they&#x27;re talking about the physical drive not working, but they&#x27;re giving examples where you can&#x27;t playback because you need to install the correct old software, plugins, etc... Which doesn&#x27;t have anything to do with hard drives.<p>So what&#x27;s actually wrong with hard drives for archival? Do they deteriorate? Do they &quot;rot&quot; like DVDs&#x2F;blurays&#x2F;etc have been known to do? Or is this just an ad for their archival service?
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antisthenes8 个月前
What&#x27;s the scenario where you cannot take the old 1990&#x27;s hard drive and back up its data in multiple cloud service providers cold storage (Azure&#x2F;AWS&#x2F;GCP) and have to keep the obsolete physical media on hand?<p>I&#x27;m struggling to understand why these miles of shelves filled with essentially hardware junk haven&#x27;t been digitized at the time when this media worked and didn&#x27;t experience read issues.<p>The article doesn&#x27;t really provide an explanation for this other than incompetence and the business biting off more than it can reasonably chew. I&#x27;d be furious if I paid for a service that promised to archive my data, and 10-15 years later told me 25% of it was unreadable. I mean it&#x27;s not like it was a surprise either. These workflows became digital 2-3 decades ago. There was plenty of time to prepare and convert this.<p>That&#x27;s kind of what I&#x27;m paying you for.<p>As always, seems like the simple folk of &#x2F;r&#x2F;datahoarder and other archivist communities are more competent than a legacy industry behemoth.
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MisterTea8 个月前
Makes me wish we didn&#x27;t stop advancing optical media technology to where we have cheap and reliable archival quality 1TB discs for a few bucks each. I guess LTO is the best option for personally controlled archival.
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akira25018 个月前
&gt; It may sound like a sales pitch, but it’s not; it’s a call for action<p>Your entire article sounds like a sales pitch. Your solution is, well, it&#x27;s bad, but trust us, we can maybe recover it anyways. Otherwise your article fails to convey anything meaningful.
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alchemist1e98 个月前
Does it mean LTO tape for the win then?<p>We’re about to start a project to build an LTO-9 based in-house backup system. Any suggestions for DIY Linux based operation doing it “correctly” would be appreciated. Preliminary planning is to have one drive system on in our primary data center and another offsite at an office center where tapes are verified before storage in locked fireproof storage cabinet. Tips on good small business suppliers and gear models would be great help.
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mercurialuser8 个月前
There are several articles about film preservation in digital format. Every X years all the data is &quot;upgraded&quot;, from LTOn to LTOn+1 or +2.<p>So it may sound like a sales pitch but I consider it more a warning notice
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steve30558 个月前
I once pressed my boss into having off-premises storage of documents so we could still manufacture product in a new facility if the current facility burnt down. Unfortunately, someone started the habit of sending the primary documents to the same facility if the product was deprecated. One day, that off-premises facility burnt down and all the contents was lost. I think it was a regular self-storage space.<p>That aside, this sounds extremely old-fashioned, but it seems to me that the only media that is acceptable for long-term storage is going to be punched paper tape. How long does paper last? How long do the holes in it remain readable? Can it be spliced and repaired?
hilbert428 个月前
<i>&quot;Of the thousands and thousands of archived hard disk drives from the 1990s that clients ask the company to work on, around one-fifth are unreadable.&quot;</i><p>Why is this surprising?<p>It&#x27;s been known for decades that magnetic media loses remanence at several percent a year. It&#x27;s why old sound tape recordings sound noisy or why one&#x27;s family videotapes of say a wedding are either very noisy or unreadable 20 or so years later.<p>Given that and the fact that hard disks are already on the margin of noise when working properly it&#x27;s hardly surprising.<p>The designers of hard disks go to inordinate lengths to design efficient data separators. These circuits just manage to separate the hardly-recognizable data signal from the noise when the drive is new and working well so the margin for deterioration is very small.<p>The solution is simple, as the data is digital it should be regenerated every few years.<p>Frankly I&#x27;m amazed that such a lax situation can exist in a professional storage facility.<p><i>Edit: has this situation developed because the digital world doesn&#x27;t know or has forgotten that storing data on magnetic media is an analog process and such signals are deteriorated by analog mechanisms?</i>
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kkfx8 个月前
People should learn a thing: data are not tied to the physical media hosting them, like words on paper, and the sole way to preserve data is migrating them from a physical support to another regularly, also converting their formats sometimes, because things changes and an old format could end up unreadable in the future.<p>We can&#x27;t preserve bits like books.
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TZubiri8 个月前
I&#x27;m launching a competitor for Iron Mountain. It&#x27;s called DevNull LLC. Just send us your files! We&#x27;ll take care of it don&#x27;t worry.
hulitu8 个月前
&gt; Of the thousands and thousands of archived hard disk drives from the 1990s that clients ask the company to work on, around one-fifth are unreadable<p>Some 25 years ago, the hardest part in booting some Apollo workstations, was to make hard drives spin.
somat8 个月前
For long term archiving, the fundamental hard problem is the storage density, The further the storage unit size drifts below human scale the harder it is to long term archive.<p>I think for the average person, the best thing to do, for long term archives is to take advantage of sturgeons law, &quot;90 percent of everything is crap&quot;. triage the things you want to archive to a minimum, then print them out, at human scale, on paper. have physical copies of the photos you want to keep, listings of the code you are proud of, correspondence that is dear to you.<p>This will last, with no intervention, a very long time. Because as is increasingly becoming obvious, once the format drifts below human scale the best way to preserve data is to manage the data separate from the medium it is stored on with a constant effort to move it to a current medium. where it easily evaporates once vigilance drifts.
jwsteigerwalt8 个月前
I grew up in Pittsburgh. When I was flying in and out of the Pittsburgh airport (usually to Atlanta) during and after college, I would often see Iron Mountain uniformed employees waited for standby seats carrying their little pelicans cases…
thomassmith658 个月前
Relevant: <i>&quot;Sony Is Killing the Blu-ray&quot;</i> <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=40880077">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=40880077</a><p>Ah, this stupid industry.
nayuki8 个月前
I had to do a double take on this, as I associate Iron Mountain as the brand that shreds papers and hard drives as their most common service.
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jcpham28 个月前
A hard drive from 1995 will most likely be formatted FAT16&#x2F;or FAT32 and the last Windows OS that reads that filesystem by default is Windows XP - I keep an old XP workstation operational as a test rig for reading data on old hard drives.<p>Or I have to mount them in another OS that isn&#x27;t Windows. It&#x27;s more than just adjusting DAW settings and updating plugins at this point you need to know that around 2000 the filesystems completely changed with NTFS and added security that wasn&#x27;t present before.<p>By the time Vista&#x2F;7 FAT hard drive support is gone from Microsoft land. There are of course add-ons and such but you still need to _know_ this happened and FAT drives look unformatted in modern Windows.
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0ID8 个月前
An interesting topic would be the debate on how to store data for extremely long periods of time, several hundred thousand years, for example documentation of nuclear waste sites from power plants... Any ideas?
elzbardico8 个月前
The solution is metallic punch cards.
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crazygringo8 个月前
As counterintuitive as it may be, it seems to me like the only reliable long-term storage for data is with commercial cloud providers.<p>Any time you&#x27;re physically warehousing old hard drives and whatnot, they&#x27;re going to be turning into bricks.<p>Whereas with cloud providers, they&#x27;re keeping highly redundant copies and every time a hard drive fails, data gets copied to another one. And you can achieve extreme redundancy and guard against engineering errors by archiving data simultaneously with two cloud providers.<p>Is there any situation where it makes sense to be physically hosting backups yourself, for long-term archival purposes? Purely from the perspective of preserving data, it seems worse in every way.
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steve30558 个月前
It sounds like the only reliable backup media is punched paper tape.