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Tax the Rich – European Citizens' Initiative

44 点作者 janandonly9 个月前

18 条评论

sakex9 个月前
According to the article they link[1], the 1% richest is defined as earning more than $109,000 in 2015. So basically, they want to tax the people who already pay the most taxes. Actually rich people having the means to avoid paying taxes altogether, it&#x27;s the educated middle class that&#x27;s once again expected to pay for opaque, poorly managed, and unaccountable government programs.<p>Glad I live in Switzerland.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.oxfam.org&#x2F;fr&#x2F;communiques-presse&#x2F;les-1-les-plus-riches-sont-responsables-de-deux-fois-plus-demissions-que-la#:~:text=Les%201%20%25%20les%20plus%20riches%20de%20la%20population%20mondiale%20sont,sans%20pr%C3%A9c%C3%A9dent%20d&#x27;%C3%A9missions%20polluantes" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.oxfam.org&#x2F;fr&#x2F;communiques-presse&#x2F;les-1-les-plus-r...</a>.
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tirant9 个月前
It is not only sad that fellow citizens want to impoverish Europeans, but also completely counterproductive, especially in the context of an aging population and struggling pension systems. Here&#x27;s the thing: European countries already have pension systems based on pay-as-you-go models, where current workers fund retirees. But as the population ages and fewer people are working compared to those retiring, the math just doesn&#x27;t work anymore. The pension system simply won’t be able to sustain the increasing number of retirees.<p>In this context, citizens need to save and build personal capital to ensure they can retire comfortably. The problem with a wealth tax is that it discourages exactly that: saving and investing. By taxing accumulated wealth, you&#x27;re punishing those who manage to put money aside for their future. This discourages long-term planning and encourages short-term consumption instead.<p>The irony is that governments should be promoting savings and investments to fill the gap where pension systems will inevitably fall short. A wealth tax sends the opposite message and risks leaving people even more vulnerable when they retire, without the state providing enough, and without citizens having been incentivized to build their own safety net.<p>It&#x27;s one of those &quot;feels-good-on-paper&quot; policies that ends up hurting the very people it&#x27;s meant to help by making it harder for them to secure their own financial future.
jcfrei9 个月前
While I&#x27;m a fierce proponent of wealth taxes, efforts like this one will hurt finances of the EU and the middle class more. Only focusing on the EU means the really rich will just move their assets abroad to avoid taxes. Efforts like these need to be enacted on an OECD level and first focus on the $100M+ crowd at a low tax rate. Keeping expectations for massive social impacts low and making sure all loopholes and issues are closed before moving to broader wealth taxes - otherwise the populists will claim failure after a few years (populists backed by rich donors) and call for abandonment of wealth taxes - so they get some peace for the next 50 years.<p>Equally important we also need to be clever how to implement this tax collection. The ideal setup is a form of sovereign wealth fund, where individuals that need to pay the tax can loan out shares of their company. The issue for lots of very rich people is that they are not liquid enough to fund these taxes. The solution is to allow tax collection by giving these individuals the opportunity to deposit shares of their company as collateral at a wealth fund - giving the fund access to dividend payouts (those need to be tax free) that then cover the required taxation. That way owners of family businesses can keep ownership of their companies and still pay wealth taxes.
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snapplebobapple8 个月前
This is the exact opposite of what is needed both from a social services funding perspective and a wealth concentration perspective. People look at the rich and are justifiably pissed because they see them holding a ton of power because of control of businesses that have a ton of market power (i.e. oligopolies&#x2F;monopolies) to abuse via rent seeking. The correct solution to that is more aggressive antitrust enforcement actually breaking up many of these oligopolies, which will cut down on the rent seeking and make the market far more dynamic allowing people with good ideas to grow real competitors more easily.<p>From the social service funding perspective, pretty much every first world country is flush with funding. Their problem is incredible amounts of misuse&#x2F;abuse&#x2F;corruption&#x2F;misallocation. which we should be focusing on fixing.<p>The above plan will just hurt those aspiring to be rich who have much more limited options for hiding their income&#x2F;wealth from taxes, cementing in the rent seekers already at the top. Any further tax revenue will be going into incredibly inefficient and wasteful spending pipelines and will concentrate more power into those pipelines. It&#x27;s a lose lose lose for everyone in those countries and everyone in the future.
jamil79 个月前
These people should put their minds toward instrumenting reform across the EU and modernizing decrepit and corrupt state institutions before they start talking about giving these bodies even more tax money to piss away.
anovikov9 个月前
Rather stupid idea to attack those who call the shots. Try doing it and they change the government for the more agreeable one. Because the initiative is leftist, who that will be? Far right. Result: Putin wins.<p>In the very best case, they simply leave. You end up with the same number of poor, but no rich. Will that make anyone happier? Those speaking of &quot;exit tax&quot;: it&#x27;s no secret that their money is not invested in Europe. So if they leave, they just leave, no exit tax. Why? You seen EU stock performance? They are all in the US. In part because far-left initiatives like that have no chance in the US. But mostly because stocks there work because money isn&#x27;t being sucked out of the underlying companies by the takers on one hand, and investors also have money to pour in because they are taxed less. Very best end result: you make Europe even more behind on everything because you will have all the same takers, but even fewer makers.
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thih99 个月前
There is an example for Belgium, is there a list with values for other countries?<p>&gt; The criteria for defining an &quot;ultra-rich&quot; should vary from one EU country to another, due to the economic, fiscal and social differences between member states. In Belgium, for example, we propose that anyone with 1.25 million euros in assets in addition to their main home and business assets should qualify as &quot;ultra-rich&quot;.
JumpCrisscross9 个月前
The proposal is to give the Commission the power to enact a direct wealth tax and fund green things? No numbers? Really?<p>So presumably, every EU nation’s tax office would furnish some EU commissar with everyone’s wealth? Which they would be in charge of measuring? (Presumably everyone. Because if it’s only everyone above a certain wealth, there are games to be played with how wealth is counted and who does the counting at the national level.)<p>Also, is this subject to any single nation vetoing it?<p>EDIT: Never mind, this exempts business assets, it’s a total farce.
indigo00869 个月前
Doesn&#x27;t help the &quot;europoor&quot; moniker by aiming so low. Shows bigger issues with Europe than taxing the rich can solve
dakiol9 个月前
From the FAQ<p>&gt; In Belgium, for example, we propose that anyone with 1.25 million euros in assets in addition to their main home and business assets should qualify as &quot;ultra-rich&quot;.<p>Uh. That’s a very low bar. I was expecting something above 50 to 100 million euros.<p>As a software engineer, I think (I hope) to reach that number before retirement… and I wouldn’t consider myself “ultra-rich”. I can only imagine the bar is even lower in other countries.
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Yizahi9 个月前
We don&#x27;t need to tax the rich (yet). We need to &quot;tax&quot; fucking offshores. That&#x27;s where stolen money is flowing from all citizens.
Ekaros9 个月前
3 weeks to go? I don&#x27;t think this one is going to pass. And for good reasons it is just really vague in the form that is on the initiative.
rglullis9 个月前
I guess what happened in France with Hollande was not enough of a lesson?<p>Anyway, I will repeat: don&#x27;t tax the rich because of the capital they have to control the corporations, insult get rid of corporations entirely. Make it so that:<p>- companies must be limited to a certain size (on the order of 250)<p>- no individual can work in more than one organization<p>- individual contractors dedicating more than 30% of their time to any specific company should count towards the cap of the hiring entity.<p>Concentration of wealth is only a problem because of the power that gives them via the corporations they control. Get rid of the corporations and you get rid of the problem.<p>Politically speaking, is a lot easier to sell the idea to both sides of the table, while &quot;end billionaires&quot; is something that only appeals to the left.
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newsclues9 个月前
The rich will avoid the bulk of the taxation.<p>Others will pay for these &quot;progressive&quot; wealth transfers.<p>Economic collapse may be the goal.
DataDaemon9 个月前
We already had communism in part of Europe.
bwb9 个月前
Whats funny is this exempts business assets lol.<p>Just increase the tax on dividends and capital gains in a progressive manner. And be prepared if the economy slows as a result (not up to date on what economists report there). Spain has a wealth tax and their economy is not doing so well. Everyone in Spain shields it by putting it in real estate and putting a business around it. And nobody can sell their business as that opens them to the wealth tax, so you get wage stagnation, and a general economic malaise as zombie companies limp along.<p>Nice flashy website though.
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gatinsama9 个月前
Why not just ask for a more progressive tax system instead of trying to instill class warfare? Sounds commie to me.
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dinkblam9 个月前
didn&#x27;t surprise me to see this backed by notorious piketti
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