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Google must open Android for third-party stores, rules Epic judge

787 点作者 dblitt7 个月前

43 条评论

tmtvl7 个月前
Wait, so the Google Play Store, which you can install alternatives to (F-Droid, Aurora, Amazon,...), and where you can easily install apps through other means (such as downloading an APK through your browser and running it from the file manager) is an illegal monopoly while the Apple App Store isn&#x27;t?<p>Well, I guess Google&#x27;s market cap is only 2 trillion compared to Apple&#x27;s 3 trillion, so I guess that&#x27;s fair.
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mike_d7 个月前
Epic&#x27;s &quot;First Run&quot; program does all the things they got mad at Apple and Google about.<p>You don&#x27;t have to pay any license fees for Unreal Engine if you use Epic exclusively for payments. They give you 100% revshare for 6 months if you agree to not ship your game on any other app store.<p>Let&#x27;s not kid ourselves, Epic never cared about consumer choice or a fair playing field, they only want the ability to profit without having to invest in building a hardware platform.
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sigmar7 个月前
I&#x27;ve been pretty anti-google on this topic (and a long time fdroid-lover). but this ruling is nuts to me, particularly where it says google &quot;must give rival third-party app stores access to the full catalog of Google Play apps&quot;<p>I don&#x27;t think we are going to see a healthy competitive marketplace with 4 years of chaos where every app store has the same apps, there&#x27;s no curation at all or incentive structure for stores to win over app listings, and app stores get created and destroyed at the whims of a random single person.<p>Maybe the committee will operate within the confines of this outline to set more structure and make this workable, but it seems very handy-wavey in how this is going to work...
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tencentshill7 个月前
Soon we&#x27;ll have the Verizon Appstore and the Spotify Appstore and the Zoom Appstore, the exclusive home for each app and their partners, each with it&#x27;s own overlapping user tracking libraries and insecure payment methods, and no one can even tell them to do otherwise. Coming soon to iOS, too!
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clhodapp7 个月前
&gt; and it must give rival third-party app stores access to the full catalog of Google Play apps<p>That one feels a step too far to me. It seems like it should be the developer&#x27;s job to share their app with third party stores, not Google&#x27;s.
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topherPedersen7 个月前
Love this, but Apple&#x27;s the big offender not Google. Google&#x27;s already pretty open, and they approve most apps. It&#x27;s not hard to get your app on the Play Store, it&#x27;s Apple and the App Store that make publishing your apps a nightmare.<p>Hope to see things start opening up though. Very happy for Epic and developers everywhere.
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dmvdoug7 个月前
For all the people commenting on the discrepancy between this ruling and the one in Apple’s case: now perhaps you see the value of good lawyers. Apple was able to convince the judge in their case to fairly narrowly define the market segment at issue. Google failed to do that here. And no, it’s not as simple as saying they’re the same so this will get overturned on appeal to stay consistent with the Apple ruling. The market segment definition is case-specific and fact-intensive.
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ZunarJ57 个月前
Bumping Droidify because it&#x27;s great!<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;f-droid.org&#x2F;en&#x2F;packages&#x2F;com.looker.droidify&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;f-droid.org&#x2F;en&#x2F;packages&#x2F;com.looker.droidify&#x2F;</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;Droid-ify&#x2F;client">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;Droid-ify&#x2F;client</a>
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jasoneckert7 个月前
The most interesting bit for me was &quot;I won’t discuss the Apple case more than this brief outline since I’m ethically bound.&quot; This included a link to: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theverge.com&#x2F;authors&#x2F;sean-hollister&#x2F;archives&#x2F;38" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.theverge.com&#x2F;authors&#x2F;sean-hollister&#x2F;archives&#x2F;38</a><p>Did his wife sign an Apple NDA that applies to family members? Or does he not want to anger Apple out of fear of retaliation towards his wife? Either way, I don&#x27;t see how the word &quot;ethics&quot; applies to either situation.
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TrianguloY7 个月前
Oh! So I&#x27;ll finally be able to add donation links to my apps? And links to both play store and f-droid??<p>Currently, if you do that, the review fails for &quot;Payments policy violation&quot; (for the donation link at least, link to fdroid should be allowed, although I think I had some issues in the past...)
nijave7 个月前
I think it&#x27;s more useful to think in context of vertical integration. Mobile phone software is very tightly vertically integrated such that a single company can control components that historically other companies were able to compete at providing.<p>Apple and Google not only control hardware, kernel, OS facilities, user land, software loading&#x2F;download facilities, but also payments, code signing, and even venture into other forms of banking.<p>On top of that, they&#x27;re actively blocking potential competitors to many (most) of those pieces.
ChoGGi7 个月前
&quot;Google also can&#x27;t:<p>Offer developers money or perks to launch their apps on the Play Store exclusively or first&quot;<p>Huh, why does that sound familiar epic games store?
CryptoBanker7 个月前
I’m confused, I’ve been using 3rd party app stores on Android for years now?
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seydor7 个月前
Epic being the true antitrust commisionaire, having achieved more than entire groups of countries .<p>The ruling may be on the extreme side but it&#x27;s still good to see things moving back to a more open software world. Google is probably not afraid of it, they know that their users will keep using their services because they are better . (Just like how browser choice in the EU did not move the needle).<p>Any rule enforcing openness should be celebrated, as a win to change the culture of walled gardens that has plagued technology for decades
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qwertox7 个月前
Next up in the TODO list:<p>Force Google to open source Google Play Services and allow users to choose which which publisher&#x27;s version of it they want to use.<p>That thing has become a huge proprietary spyware blob and without it the device is nearly useless. It&#x27;s nearly obligatory for developers to code against it.
bagels7 个月前
So, then, Apple is next?
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pfdietz7 个月前
&gt; Stop requiring Google Play Billing for apps distributed on the Google Play Store (the jury found that Google had illegally tied its payment system to its app store)<p>Woot! I&#x27;ll be able to buy books in the Kindle app again.
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bhawks7 个月前
The browser should have been the distribution mechanism and user agent sandbox for mobile apps. Unfortunately both OS platforms owned their own browsers and would benefit from controlling app distribution under the guise of protecting app quality.<p>It is also exceedingly ironic that browsers played such a key role in wrestling control from the dominant windows platform to the benefit of Apple and Google.
flacebo7 个月前
&gt; Google also can’t:<p>&gt; Offer developers money or perks to launch their apps on the Play Store exclusively or first<p>That&#x27;s exactly what Epic did trying to make their store happen. They&#x27;re not the good guys, they just want part of the profit.<p>Other than that, I see this as a win for other developers and consumers.<p>Although I don&#x27;t think this is over, Google will do everything to fight this.
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Kon-Peki7 个月前
According to Wikipedia [0]:<p>&gt; The events and initial actions on Epic&#x27;s lawsuit against Google were brought on the same day as Epic&#x27;s suit against Apple, but Google stressed the legal situation around their case is far different. Google asserted that the Android operating system does not have the same single storefront restriction as Apple&#x27;s iOS, and thus allows different Android phone manufacturers to bundle different storefronts and apps as they desire. Google said they are negotiating with Epic Games far differently from Apple in their case.<p>I have no idea how the two cases are different, but Google said they were. And it sure sounds like Google specifically chose to take a different path, which ended up being a loser. Cautionary tale of hubris and stuff.<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Epic_Games_v._Apple" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Epic_Games_v._Apple</a>
guardian5x7 个月前
Crazy that Google and Apple are in the top 10 of game revenue companies without making any games.
asmor7 个月前
&gt; Google also can’t: Offer developers money or perks to launch their apps on the Play Store exclusively or first <i>or</i> Offer developers money or perks not to launch their apps on rival stores.<p>Very funny, that&#x27;s Epic&#x27;s bread and butter on PC.
zelphirkalt7 个月前
Is the judge epic for their ruling, or is judge employed by Epic? ;D<p>I have a feeling, that headings become more ambiguous over time. OK this one is with capital E on Epic. Still fun to think about the other meanings.
zelphirkalt7 个月前
Maybe stores should simply be uncoupled with mobile OS. Imagine a store, that has apps for various OS, run independently from the OS&#x27; vendor, Google, Apple, whoever. Then we wouldn&#x27;t have all the issues with the vendors behaving like dictators about what can be on _their_ stores, because it is no longer their stores. Only question: How does it get financed and maintained, if not big tech is behind it?
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ApolloFortyNine7 个月前
It&#x27;s straight depressing that Google, who has allowed loading third party apks since 2008, is the one punished when their competitor with higher market share doesn&#x27;t even allow that.<p>I just can&#x27;t help but think of a world where every company pulled an apple. Not being able to install your own applications on your own device is horrifying to me, and we were just one android (apparently stupid in hindsight) decision away from that being the case.<p>Imagine if that was the case with pcs. 30% obligatory apple tax or you can just go release your own phone.
gerash7 个月前
If the court is less consistent in its ruling than perhaps any tennager in the US in this case then I wonder what other cases they are adjudicating
jaimex27 个月前
Google will do an uno reverse on the EU<p>If Apple&#x27;s store isn&#x27;t illegal then they will switch to their model. Android will lock out alternative stores completely in response.<p>They&#x27;ll probably rename Android to something else and say its a new, more secure OS.
abalone7 个月前
I&#x27;m not trying to be provocative or a downvote magnet here but does anyone actually have a concrete response to the concerns Frederighi raised about sideloading and privacy &#x2F; phishing protections three years ago?[1]<p>Isn&#x27;t it like very, very obvious that while you and I and everyone else on HN appreciate the power of sideloading, average users are more easily tricked into bypassing the protections of well-run app stores?<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;f0Gum8UkyoI" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;f0Gum8UkyoI</a>
jakeogh7 个月前
Good. Google is actively trying to force everyone to have an account via Play Store monopoly: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=41517159">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=41517159</a><p>Now do Apple.
Timber-65397 个月前
Looking to the day we can finally say goodbye to Google&#x27;s SafetyNet.
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juliangmp7 个月前
&gt;Google also can&#x27;t offer developers money or perks to launch their apps on the Play Store exclusively or first<p>Gee I wonder if these sorts of rules also apply to Epic Games
SergeAx7 个月前
But... It is already open to third-party stores and even APK side loading. Who understands what&#x27;s going on here?
gok7 个月前
Which mean Tencent (Epic&#x27;s parent company) will finally be free to open their app stores world-wide.
silexia7 个月前
Why does this link to the verge and not the original source? I hate clickbait.
fire_lake7 个月前
Android is not an open platform because in practice everything works on Google Play Services.
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1vuio0pswjnm77 个月前
What&#x27;s illegal. 1. Monopoly power plus 2. anti-competitive conduct.<p>Apple and Google both have #2 but only Google has #1.<p>&quot;Illegal monopoly&quot; is strange terminology. What does it mean. Monopolies are not illegal. Anti-competitive conduct by a party with monopoly power is illegal.
tarkin27 个月前
Isn&#x27;t Samsung&#x27;s Store and F-Droid all ready third party?
always_imposter7 个月前
This is truly baffling to me. Google is far from doing anti-competitive bs than Apple does. You can&#x27;t install anything on an apple device without the whims of Apple. This calls into question whether you actually own your Apple device or not when you can&#x27;t even tinker with it. Simply put, you don&#x27;t own an Apple device.<p>Google&#x27;s Android is pretty much as open as things can be, yes, from hardware manufacturers&#x27; perspective it is a shit deal that you have to install their entire suite of apps if you want to use Play Store. Yes, this thing is anti-competitive but Epic wasn&#x27;t fighting along these lines.<p>It is not fair to call Google anti-competitive for wanting to maintain their supremacy on their own app. It&#x27;s like you have a shop selling your brand&#x27;s merchandise and you are very successful but are told by a judge to allow other brand&#x27;s merchandise on your acquired customers. Truly wild.<p>With Android, you can always install competing app stores on your phone by going to the website of the developer. It makes zero sense to want to make things &quot;more&quot; open. Yes, Google warns you that you are installing an app from other location, but that is on the user man and is good opsec on google&#x27;s part to not let any random user install apps from anywhere. There should be a little barrier to prevent apps from being installed and google&#x27;s os does that.<p>There are plenty of apps in India which operate outside the purview of Google&#x27;s Play Store and doing business of billions of $. Google and Apple both don&#x27;t allow gambling apps on their platform but there are so many companies here that are distributing their apps through their website and succeeding and they are a big business at that. I doubt there are any other examples in the world of apps succeeding doing billions of $ in revenue outside Apple&#x2F;Google stores.<p>The actual action needs to be taken on Apple&#x27;s App Store who are the biggest offenders of walled garden and not letting users make a choice. I am pretty sure, if the users got to know that they are paying more for apps on their apple devices than their web counterparts, they would be up in arms. Devs cannot even convey to their users that they are paying more when they buy through app store.<p>This is ridiculous.
artursapek7 个月前
I should also be able to sell any food I make at home at my local grocery store.
Frieren7 个月前
So many comments advocating for centralized tightly controlled technology.<p>Capitalism and freedom are truly dead in the name of small short-term conveniences. Or, most probably, invested interest in increasing share value for big-tech.<p>If the USA decides that monopolies are the only way it is going to lose the tech race. The death of AT&amp;T created some chaos but a lot of opportunities for technological and business advancement.<p>Breaking all monopolies is the only way forward for a healthy competitive economy. Big share value gains just show that the system is not working. That there is no competition, no choice, just a rent-seeking economy that reduces value at the cost of everybody.
kernal7 个月前
Google will win on appeal.
baal80spam7 个月前
Only fair.
gytisgreitai7 个月前
Good. Android will continue becoming s*t show.