Life in India is a series of bilateral negotiations

I would say the real situation is uglier:<p>- Driving at times has the element of game of chicken. Both parties begin with aggression and then someone (or both) gives in.<p>- Lot of scamming everywhere. You think twice, thrice before you make a move, especially if involves money.<p>- Give an inch, take a yard is the norm.<p>- If a rule can be bent, it will be bent. Everything ends up in brinkmanship.<p>(Lived in India for most of my life, but has worked in multiple countries in Europe and Asia and have visited the US)

The observations in this article are useful, but the analysis is not as much.<p>1. It&#x27;s silly to talk about &quot;India&quot;&#x27;s culture. The cultural differences between Bangalore and New Delhi are as great or greater than any 2 nations in Europe. 2. India&#x27;s formal institutions are terrible. The author seems to confuse the construction of infrastructure with the establishment of institutions. The formal institutions are the same or maybe even worse than they were pre-Modi, with the only caveat being that India has taken huge leaps digitally (India is at least 1-2 decades ahead of where the US is in terms of digital identity, digital commerce, etc) which might give the impression that the formal institutions have improved, when in reality the formal institutions are as poor as they were, but some of their terribleness is now constrained by technology. 3. The indian &quot;informal institutions&quot; or &quot;culture&quot; are largely a response to the poor formal institutions. The author asks why the &quot;West&quot; is able to follow traffic speed limits whereas India is not, ignoring the fact that in the US, for example, with the reduction in enforcement during and following the pandemic, speeding in the US has shot through the roof. Jumping red lights has also increased dramatically. The reason Indians don&#x27;t follow traffic rules is the same as everyone else. A lack of enforcement.<p>Now, it&#x27;s possible that after severe enforcement for an extended period of time the formal institutional value will modify culture enough that even if the enforcement is rolled back traffic speeds would continue to be followed, but India has never experienced that.

Another thing I have come to recognise is the sheer population density that makes everything the way they are.<p>I won’t compare Indian city(Chennai where I was born) with most cities in US or most cities in Europe because they pale in comparison for people density. Just a wild comparison- take the touristy chaos of New York City - now, you see the pattern emerge on what happens if density gets higher - people stop following the rules, trash outside the bins, people becoming more self-centered and out for themselves, on guard for burglars, traffic chaos.. you get the point. It’s as if India is NYC on steroids _everywhere_.<p>When you have a 8 lane highway for the density of Europe and the US, sure following the rules is _easier_ and will become cultural over time. When you constantly have to fight for resources, it is the other way around. People get used to not following the rules because that is the only known way to get it to work.<p>It’s not straightforward as one can think..

Look at the Indian neighborhood (Sri Lanka, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Myanmar), all sharing similar peoples, culture, high populations&#x2F;inequality&#x2F;chaos are all in deep financial trouble and are politically unstable.<p>Anyone who has visited, would think India has all the ingredients to land up in a similar state.<p>But the big diff with the neighborhood is the sheer Size of the country, and the really wide range of economic activity in different parts of the country.<p>Its what we see in Nature, where there is as much chaos and incomprehensible stuff happening as there is in India. If you have a Large ecosystem, lots of different species and a lot of genetic variety, the better such systems handle constant change and unpredictable shocks.<p>And this feels like what has happened in India. One corner is imploding, while another corner becomes a leading global center of Leather Science or Jewellery Design. And this saves them from burning down like the neighborhood because they have more buffer.<p>Depending on which corner you are sitting in, the view of what is possible in India changes drastically.

&gt; And it’s safe, which a country without a strong legal safety net and a lot of poverty arguably shouldn’t be. There’s no real urban crime.<p>Interesting, my outside view without any concrete data was that India is relatively unsafe.

Again a lot of this varies state by state. Traffic is most talked about, a lot of this is state regulated (not federal)<p>In my home state of Kerala, traffic violations on major roads are now enforced through AI cameras (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.thehindu.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;national&#x2F;kerala&#x2F;within-a-year-mvd-strikes-it-rich-through-ai-cameras&#x2F;article68378601.ece" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.thehindu.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;national&#x2F;kerala&#x2F;within-a-year-...</a>)<p>A lot of it is automated and hand greasing is avoided, you would pay this online. This may be dramatically different in other states of India<p>Degree of politeness varies across states as well, Its a high tolerant society overall.<p>Places like Singapore are Aviation hubs (Hub-Spoke airline flights) , so someone making fun of BIAL being not at its standard is not even right (In terms of seating or capacity etc.). It is aesthetic showcasing a lot of local state culture (you will find it in a lot of airports). Again, you will not believe the cross section here, the Airport in Cochin is all sustainable through Solar and is Carbon negative ( one of the few in the world ).<p>Living in India is not as comparable as what it is in the West (or no where as safe as places like Japan), but then again , cultural shifts take generations , and so we hope :)

The informal culture described in the article is massively underrated, or at least, the opposite is overrated.<p>I&#x27;m from the (highly formal, rules-based) UK, but have lived most of my adult life in places with strong informal cultures. I find home incredibly rigid, inflexible and stifled compared to a lot of other places I&#x27;ve lived. So much &quot;computer says no&quot; and &quot;not worth my job&quot; in every interaction, incredible precision and planning required for the most basic things.<p>I&#x27;d stress this isn&#x27;t necessarily just a government thing, there&#x27;s a culture of unhelpfulness, restrictions imposed by insurance policies, a lack of communal responsibility, rent-seeking behaviors in privatised public space.<p>Not saying the opposite is necessarily better, but there are different modes of being outside our Western norms. When you get your head around the way things work, things can often be a hell of a lot easier day to day.

When traveling its always a great questions of chicken and then egg which came first culture to make formal systems or formal systems make the culture. Delhi is a great example of this and gives plenty of food for thought.

Kinda interesting to see this sort of &quot;the grass is greener&quot; type thinking. Strong institutions are a big juicy target for a broad spectrum of people and groups with self interest who will try to further those interests at the expense of everybody else. Given too long without serious negative consequences or given too long with blind buy-in from the population institutions often go down absurd paths that are not in the medium or long term best interests of just about anybody. There&#x27;s very much a balance to be struck.<p>I personally think that by being very tepid about building strong institutions India is going to avoid a lot of expensive blunders because the lack of buy in curtails the ability of the institutions it does have to do dumb things or at least to do them thoroughly in the same way that a (smart) king who&#x27;s kingdom is facing external threats doesn&#x27;t usually kneecap the home front with bad policy.

I’m kind of intrigued that this came up on the homepage. I read it yesterday and had earmarked it to share here on HN. Then, I realized the topic is more of a convex view from the perspective of somebody with their own opinions.<p>While reading the article, I chuckled and laughed aloud at the ground truth, but it was written with a lighter perspective and good faith in things that are in India.<p>India is a complex amalgamation of so many different things thrown in. It is not just sides of a coin or something like that — it is the living beauty of the chaos of the chaos, with lots of serenity in various pockets and facades of life.<p>With this specific “negotiations” topic, I believe there is a missing angle, and I don’t know what term would suffice. But think like this: Watch out and forgive my small mistakes and naivete, and I will do the same when I see you doing it.

Funny article but with some grain of truth to it.<p>But it must also be said that in the last decade the Politicians&#x2F;Bureaucrats seem to have gotten their act together and things have actually improved though there is still a long way to go. As somebody who grew up in the 70s&#x2F;80s and joined the workforce in the 90s things are far far better then what they were in all parameters. Given India&#x27;s history&#x2F;diversity&#x2F;democracy there will always be problems but remember; &quot;A rising tide lifts all boats&quot;.<p>PS : While the Politicians&#x2F;Bureaucrats have been the curse of India, the Scientists&#x2F;Engineers&#x2F;Doctors are the ones who have kept its flag flying high. For an account in their own words see the two-volume <i>The Mind of an Engineer by Purnendu Ghosh et al.</i> and published by Springer.

Some truth here though saying Bangalore airport (BLR) is on par with Singapore airport (SIN) is laughable.<p>A little stick is what India needs. People doing stuff like driving their motorcycle on the footpath aka sidewalk, will stop doing it if you offer just a touch of resistance and just stand there. It isn’t the US where you have small but real chance of being shot (at least in southern India, bihar etc might be exception)<p>Same with jumping the que, calling people out generally does the trick.<p>Some problems are more complex but a little more stick in India would make some solid improvements in everyday life.

One thing that stuck out to me in this article that the author mentioned is that India is safe. Having lived there for a large part of my early life and having travelled to all 28 (probably 29 now?) states over time, I found this to be very true. What makes India so safe amidst all the poverty and relative chaos?

Haggling is expected in some areas.<p>Vendors expect customer to haggle, so they inflate sometimes as high as 100%. Customers know vendors inflate, so they start haggling right away. vendors get to sold at a desired price, buyer walks away thinking, they got a deal.<p>kids try to negotiate their punishments, i negotiated a bribe with a traffic cop once.<p>When haggling is expected and one party doesn&#x27;t engage, the other party gets frustrated and try to walk away.<p>There are some pockets of activities where no-haggling is preferred choice. Like branded goods (clothes, travel, automobile), high end real estate. people who are not good at negotiations prefer these options.<p>I purchased a house from a builder, who is notorious for not engaging in negotiations. I was happy with purchase because i know i got same deal as everyone else and did not lose anything.