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BYD EV teardown in Japan reveals secrets to its affordability

154 点作者 segasaturn8 个月前

18 条评论

neuroelectron8 个月前
I think electric cars need to be simpler. They should be more like economy cars of today with the drivetrain simply swapped. No touchscreens, no fancy door handles, no cameras, etc. Those features should be optional with some trims. They need to be reliable and long life to maximize raw material efficiency. Imagine the Chinese electric cars are similar to this but the article is lacking much detail.<p>I also think it would make a lot more sense to have an auxiliary diesel heating system. This would be much more effective than electric heating and likely generate less carbon emissions (at least until we transition to carbon neutral energy infrastructure). A gallon of diesel would last for months if it was just used for heating the cabin, and it would improve the range. It might even be an effective solution for keeping the battery at optimal temperatures but obviously a lot of math is required here to see if the tradeoff is worth it vs integrated battery heating.
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Animats7 个月前
The article is a bit confusing.<p>The basic concepts here are 1) integrating the motor, rear axle, and differential into one unit, and 2) integrating all the high voltage electrical components and their controls into another unit. This doesn&#x27;t mean the electronics are down at axle level.<p>If you look at a modern &quot;E-Axle&quot;, it&#x27;s a wheel and axle assembly with a modestly sized motor mounted on the side of the differential.[1] These are BYD E-Axles for large vehicles. Others integrate those into buses and trucks. The car-sized versions would be smaller. The E-Axle component contains all the &quot;greasy bits&quot;, as automakers use the term. Looking at those things, you can see them going together easily on an automated assembly line. No need to work at funny angles, assemble big objects around other objects, or other assembly hassles. No shafting or belts - just wires.<p>This is reasonable enough. It is, however, a major change from traditional automaking priorites. Traditionally, The Engine was the core vehicle component. Final drive, differential, and axle were way down in priority. GM&#x27;s worst plant used to be Detroit Gear and Axle. (It was bought in 1992 by a startup guy who made it non-union, wrote a book about it, and then went bankrupt.)<p>So it&#x27;s a bit of a shock for auto companies to find that the axle people are now in charge. An electric car needs only an e-axle, a battery, and a HV electronics box as the power train. That comes from the power train supplier. The vehicle manufacturer adds a frame, wheels, body, interior, and dashboard. It all plugs together with CANbus.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;dotto-tech.ca&#x2F;byd-e-axle-%26-system" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;dotto-tech.ca&#x2F;byd-e-axle-%26-system</a>
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mensetmanusman8 个月前
BYD is a state-backed enterprise with unknown levels of profitability when full subsidies are accounted for.<p>Tariffs will be needed by countries that refuse to create state backed companies but which also want an automotive industry and a manufacturing base that can make weapons of war.
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jeffreyrogers8 个月前
Relevant: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.businessinsider.com&#x2F;ford-ceo-driving-xiaomi-su7-electric-vehicles-ev-2024-10" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.businessinsider.com&#x2F;ford-ceo-driving-xiaomi-su7-...</a><p>&quot;The CEO of Ford says he&#x27;s been driving a Xiaomi EV for the past 6 months and doesn&#x27;t want to give it up&quot;
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tim3337 个月前
People are saying the secret to Chinese cars is putting bits on the axle or whatever but I remember like 20 years ago stories like this<p>&gt;...China has pulled way ahead of the U.S. and the rest of the world by one key measure.<p>&gt;China graduates in excess of three times more engineers — electrical, industrial, bio-chemical, semiconductor, mechanical, even power generation — with bachelor&#x27;s degrees than the U.S. university system. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;eu.jsonline.com&#x2F;story&#x2F;archives&#x2F;2017&#x2F;08&#x2F;02&#x2F;china-engineers-its-next-great-leap-its-students&#x2F;527951001&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;eu.jsonline.com&#x2F;story&#x2F;archives&#x2F;2017&#x2F;08&#x2F;02&#x2F;china-engi...</a><p>and now maybe it&#x27;s bearing fruit.
eeasss8 个月前
When USA and Japan wake up from their gasoline obsession the world would have moved on and Asia, South America and Africa would be on Chinese Evs. Europe will drive EU made cars from Chinese and European brands.
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torginus8 个月前
Generally I think it&#x27;s much more useful to link the orignial, rather than the churnalism article written about it.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cn.nikkei.com&#x2F;industry&#x2F;icar&#x2F;56879-2024-10-09-09-00-23.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cn.nikkei.com&#x2F;industry&#x2F;icar&#x2F;56879-2024-10-09-09-00-2...</a><p>Although it&#x27;s in Chinese, Google Translate can help you out.<p>The TLDR version is that BYD integrates many components of the electric drivetrain into a single sub-assembly, and shares said assembly between multiple vehicles to achieve volume cost savings.<p>Which is fine for bringing the costs down, but keep in mind their cars have zero repairability, which might be a concern, considering the engineers though the components aren&#x27;t protected well enough agains water ingress.<p>Although, I admit my skepticism might be unfounded. I&#x27;ve owned the same car for close to a decade, and I haven&#x27;t replaced anything besides consumables and fluids.
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Kon-Peki8 个月前
This website does not make it seem as though the BYD Atto 3 is so great in terms of efficiency:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ev-database.org&#x2F;cheatsheet&#x2F;energy-consumption-electric-car" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ev-database.org&#x2F;cheatsheet&#x2F;energy-consumption-electr...</a>
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gigatexal8 个月前
I thought it was because China was subsidizing the cars a ton. Or have they really cracked EVs and economies of scale just got them there. Maybe a bit of both?
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selimnairb8 个月前
What does this high level of integration mean for repairability? Lack of&#x2F;difficulty in repairability can raise lifecycle costs or reduce longevity. The latter is especially worrying for lifecycle carbon emissions.
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ProllyInfamous7 个月前
I am a recent hybrid drivetrain -convert [Camry, <i>this year</i>]. For most Americans I think hybrid vehicles are the current &quot;best solution&quot; — simply because our infrastructure already has phenomenal gasoline distribution capabilities. I can drive many hundreds of miles on ten gallons of gasoline [~50mpg real-world city driving].<p>When I lost power for 48 hours this past summer, I spent about 2 gallons of gasoline (already in my Camry Hybrid) to keep my refrigerator and computers running (using a 12VDC-&gt;120VAC inverter). Despite owning a beastmode 9000W propane&#x2F;gasoline generator, the only reason I&#x27;d need it would be to run air conditioners...<p>Using the SDS+ hammer drill off of an extension cord sourced from my car [instead of a flatbed w&#x2F; generator]... makes for great jobsite conversation topics.<p>As a rarely-political American, I do think the tarriffs on BYD are unnecessary and ultimately bad for most of us &quot;just citizens.&quot;
jacknews7 个月前
&quot;producing as many of the components as possible in-house and integrating them.&quot;<p>So the complete opposite of modularity and repairability, and therefore, sustainability. When anything on the e-axle breaks, you&#x27;ll likely have to replace the entire thing, which might well be uneconomical, so you&#x27;ll scrap the entire car. Maybe part of the low cost is all the savings they make on repair documentation, etc.
tonyedgecombe8 个月前
A more interesting question is why are EV&#x27;s built in the West so expensive.
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nothercastle8 个月前
Lots of advantages from labor to financing to government subsidies and environmental regulations. It would be nearly impossible to compete with that
tho42i34j2342347 个月前
&gt; &quot;their views on quality are different from those of Japanese manufacturers.&quot;<p>I&#x27;m not sure what the reality is, but this &quot;Japan is special&quot; delusion needs to go. Yes, they have stuff that is top-notch, but this is not a given (just like in China).<p>For instance, in India, the top auto-manufacturer Suzuki (like other Japanese&#x2F;Korean manufacturers) is known to skimp on construction quality and fares quite poorly in terms of safety rating etc. This while Indian manufacturers like Tata&#x2F;Mahindra are coming out with solidly built models that achieve top-scores in safety.<p>If you look for videos on Indian Social media, you&#x27;ll almost always find them pan on Suzuki for its flimsy construction - which is esp. concerning since road safety in India is quite poor.
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Overtonwindow8 个月前
Affordable - made cheaply - is equated in this article heavily as “better” but that is not always the case. I would still hesitate to buy a Chinese vehicle over safety and quality.
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auguzanellato8 个月前
&gt; The source article highlights the so-called “E-Axle” used by BYD, which is comprised of eight different components. &gt; It includes not only the motor, inverter, transmission and controller but also the onboard AC charger, the DC-to-DC converter and the battery monitoring system (BMS).<p>Sounds like that if one of those ever needs replacement you might as well just replace the whole car.
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chiffre018 个月前
TLDR: Economies of scale.
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