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Core copyright violation moves ahead in The Intercept's lawsuit against OpenAI

307 点作者 giuliomagnifico6 个月前

21 条评论

tolmasky6 个月前
The logical endgame of all this isn’t “stopping LLMs,” it’s Disney happening to own a critical mass of IP to be able to more or less exclusively legally train and run LLMs that make movies, firing all their employees, and no smaller company ever having a chance in hell with competing with a literal century’s worth of IP powering a <i>generative</i> model. This turns the already egregiously generous backwards facing monopoly into a forward facing monopoly.<p>None of this was ever the point of copyright. The best part about all this is that Disney initially took off by… making use of public domain works. Copyright used to last 14 years. You’d be able to create derivative works of most the art in your life at some point. Disney is ironically the proof of how <i>constructive</i> a system that regularly turns works over to the public domain can be. But thanks to lobbying by Disney, now you’re never allowed to create a derivative work of the art in your life.<p>Copyright is only possible because <i>we the public fund the infrastructure necessary to maintain it</i>. “IP” isn’t self manifesting like physical items. Me having a cup necessarily means you don’t have it. That’s not how ideas and pictures work. You can infinitely perfectly duplicate them. Thus we set up laws and courts and police to create a complicated <i>simulation</i> of physical properties for IP. Your tax dollars pay for that. The original deal was that in exchange, those works would enter the public domain to give back to society. We’ve gotten so far from that that people now argue about OpenAI “stealing” from authors, when the authors most of the time don’t even own the works — their employers do! What a sad comedy where we’ve forgotten we have a stake in this too and instead argue over which corporation should “own” the exclusive ability to cheaply and blazingly fast create future works while everyone else has to do it the hard way.
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theropost6 个月前
Copyright laws, in many ways, feel outdated and unnecessarily rigid. They often appear to disproportionately favor large corporations without providing equivalent value to society. For example, brands like Disney have leveraged long-running copyrights to generate billions, or even tens of billions, of dollars through enforcement over extended periods. This approach feels excessive and unsustainable.<p>The reliance on media saturation and marketing creates a perception that certain works are inherently more valuable than others, despite new creative works constantly being developed. While I agree that companies should have the right to profit from their investments, such as a $500 million movie, there should be reasonable limits. Once they recoup their costs, including a reasonable profit multiplier, the copyright could be considered fulfilled and should expire.<p>Holding onto copyrights indefinitely or for excessively long periods serves primarily to sustain a system that benefits lawyers and enforcement agencies, rather than providing meaningful value to society. For instance, enforcing a copyright from the 1940s for a multinational corporation that already generates billions makes little sense.<p>There should be a balanced framework. If I invest significant time and effort—say 100 hours—into creating a work, I should be entitled to earn a reasonable return, perhaps 10 times the effort I put in. However, after that point, the copyright should no longer apply. Current laws have spiraled out of control, failing to strike a balance between protecting creators and fostering innovation. Reform is long overdue.
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3pt141596 个月前
Is there a way to figure out if OpenAI ingested my blog? If the settlements are $2500 per article then I&#x27;ll take a free used cars worth of payments if its available.
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quarterdime6 个月前
Interesting. Two key quotes:<p>&gt; It is unclear if the Intercept ruling will embolden other publications to consider DMCA litigation; few publications have followed in their footsteps so far. As time goes on, there is concern that new suits against OpenAI would be vulnerable to statute of limitations restrictions, particularly if news publishers want to cite the training data sets underlying ChatGPT. But the ruling is one signal that Loevy &amp; Loevy is narrowing in on a specific DMCA claim that can actually stand up in court.<p>&gt; Like The Intercept, Raw Story and AlterNet are asking for $2,500 in damages for each instance that OpenAI allegedly removed DMCA-protected information in its training data sets. If damages are calculated based on each individual article allegedly used to train ChatGPT, it could quickly balloon to tens of thousands of violations.<p>Tens of thousands of violations at $2500 each would amount to tens of millions of dollars in damages. I am not familiar with this field, does anyone have a sense of whether the total cost of retraining (without these alleged DMCA violations) might compare to these damages?
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logicchains6 个月前
Eventually we&#x27;re going to have embodied models capable of live learning and it&#x27;ll be extremely apparent how absurd the ideas of the copyright extremists are. Because in their world, it&#x27;d be illegal for an intelligent robot to watch TV, read a book or browse the internet like a human can, because it could remember what it saw and potentially regurgitate it in future.
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hydrolox6 个月前
I understand that regulations exist and how there can be copyright violations, but shouldn&#x27;t we be concerned that other.. more lenient governments (mainly China) who are opposed to the US will use this to get ahead? If OpenAI is significantly set back.
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0xcde4c3db6 个月前
The claim that&#x27;s being allowed to proceed is under 17 USC 1202, which is about stripping metadata like the title and author. Not exactly &quot;core copyright violation&quot;. Am I missing something?
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torginus6 个月前
How sturdy is this claim?<p>If we presume it&#x27;s illegal to train on copyrighted works, but Wikipedia, a website summarizing the article is perfectly legal, then what would happen if we got LLM A to summarize the article and use that to train LLM B.<p>LLM A could be trained on public domain works.
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bastloing6 个月前
Isn&#x27;t this the same thing Google has been doing for years with their search engine? Only difference is Google keeps the data internal, whereas openai spits it out to you. But it&#x27;s still scraped and stored in both cases.
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ysofunny6 个月前
the very idea of &quot;this digital asset is exclusively mine&quot; cannot die soon enough<p>let real physically tangible assets keep the exclusivity <i>problem</i><p>let&#x27;s not undo the advantages unlocked by the digital internet; let us prevent a few from locking down this grand boon of digital abundance such that the problem becomes saturation of data<p>let us say no to digital scarcity
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ashoeafoot6 个月前
Will we see human washing, where Ai art or works get a &quot;Made by man&quot; final touch in some third world mechanical turk den? Would that add another financial detracting layer to the ai winter?
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ada19816 个月前
I’m still of the opinion that we should be allowed to train on any data a human can read online.
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_giorgio_6 个月前
Just train the models in Japan.<p>*No copyright.*<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;insights.manageengine.com&#x2F;artificial-intelligence&#x2F;the-us-should-look-at-japans-unique-approach-to-generative-ai-copyright-law&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;insights.manageengine.com&#x2F;artificial-intelligence&#x2F;th...</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=38842788">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=38842788</a>
bastloing6 个月前
Who would be forever grateful if openai removed all of The Intercept&#x27;s content permanently and refused to crawl it in the future?
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dr_dshiv6 个月前
Proposed: 10% tax as copyright settlement, half to pay for past creators and and half to pay current creative culture
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cynicalsecurity6 个月前
Yeah, let&#x27;s stop the progress because a few magazines no one cares about are unhappy.
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efitz6 个月前
I would trust AI a lot more if it gave answers more like:<p><i>“Source A on date 1 said XYX”</i><p><i>“Source B …”</i><p><i>“Synthesizing these, it seems that the majority opinion is X but Y is also a commonly held opinion.”</i><p>Instead of what it does now, which is make extremely confident, unsourced statements.<p>It looks like the copyright lawsuits are rent-seeking as much as anything else; another reason I hate copyright in its current form.
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zb36 个月前
Forecast: OpenAI and The Intercept will settle and OpenAI users will pay for it.
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james_sulivan6 个月前
Meanwhile China is using everything available to train their AI models
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philipwhiuk6 个月前
It&#x27;s extremely lousy that you have to pre-register copyright.<p>That would make the USCO a defacto clearinghouse for news.
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whywhywhywhy6 个月前
It&#x27;s so weird to me seeing journalists complaining about copyright and people taking something they did.<p>The whole of journalism is taking the acts of others and repeating them, why does a journalist claim they have the rights to someone else&#x27;s actions when someone simply looks at something they did and repeat it.<p>If no one else ever did anything, the journalist would have nothing to report, it&#x27;s inherently about replicating the work and acts of others.
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