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The slow death of the hands-on engineering manager

100 点作者 Liriel5 个月前

16 条评论

tagyro5 个月前
As a leader&#x2F;manager it is essential to spend your time on the <i>right</i> thing. Sometimes that might be coding, most of the time though, it is not.<p>Mike Michalowicz&#x27;s Clockwork has a really nice framework, called 4D:<p>- <i>Do</i> - the least important type of action a leader can do and where they should spend as little time as possible<p>- <i>Decide</i> - a level higher, but still not the core activity for leaders. Being the decision makes means that they have to be informed about everything.<p>- <i>Delegate</i> - this is an important skill for leaders, assigning who is responsible for which outcome<p>- <i>Design</i> - the most important type of action: designing the organization of the future and creating the right conditions for that organization to emerge; Put differently, this is truly working ON the business rather than IN the business.
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t435625 个月前
I am a combination Tech Lead&#x2F;Line Manager. I&#x27;m at a lower position than an Engineering Manager but the problems don&#x27;t seem that different.<p>I found that losing touch with the code is disastrous - one cannot make sensible decisions without a familiarity. I need to know how difficult it&#x27;s getting to write tests and get features done if I&#x27;m to make decisions about how to simplify everything for other developers. I have to understand what&#x27;s possible.<p>I also cannot really review code well in a PR - it&#x27;s meaningless until I&#x27;ve worked on that code and thought &quot;oh #$%#$%, we can&#x27;t do this like this.....!!&quot;<p>So the decision part of management is just not possible without some time programming. I like to do refactoring - esp of tests and bits of code where I know that people have been in a rush and done a bit too much copy&#x2F;pasting. I try to make log messages more useful, simplify things that I realise can be simplified. I write scripts to make annoying bits of work trivial so other developers have an easier time. I try to punch through problems with debugging or development.<p>Some management tasks soak up energy:<p><pre><code> * hiring is one. I&#x27;m new to it and I am only beginning to have ideas about how to do it more efficiently. I wanted to get my team to help choose people but this ends up taking far too long to arrange. I realise I need to man up and do more of the initial choosing and present them with a limited choice at the end - I want people who will work well with everyone else. No arseholes, however good they might be. * helping people get their tickets done - which is good work and always worthwhile but to do it well you do need to understand the codebase a bit. * meetings about future features...which are incredibly inefficient because they&#x27;re about getting everyone to understand what is wanted and trying to imagine an acceptably rapid way of doing it that will also fit in with other plans. This is very inefficient because people talk a great length then forget and have to understand it all again weeks later. On the other hand, doing work where everyone has a different understanding of what&#x27;s needed is a deadly problem, so the horrendous hashing-things-out sessions generally pay off in the end. I just wish there was a better way.</code></pre>
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willvarfar5 个月前
Thinking of lots of EMs I&#x27;ve known or worked with who used to code, across quite a few companies, its really a factor of their tenure in role. At first a bright young engineer IC taking the EM track will try to keep being an engineer and keep coding. But with time they get bored with this and realise it has no correlation with how their manager measures their success etc, and they get over that fad and coast. YMMV.
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submeta5 个月前
I am an IT project manager at a company with 750 employees. In my role, I coordinate various teams – both internal and external. My work requires me to quickly grasp complex IT systems and rapidly acquire domain knowledge. While programming is not part of my core responsibilities, my ability to write, deploy, and test code allows me to communicate effectively with engineers and better understand technical challenges. So yes, being able to work in terminal, to write code, to run it, play with it, to review code is very helpful for me.
bstar775 个月前
This article is pretty on point with my experience. I&#x27;m a &quot;senior technical&quot; manager (of about 60 engineers) and with that comes a ton of responsibility that pulls me away from coding at every turn. I have to be in every call, I have to know everything that&#x27;s going on and I have to be able to be able to communicate all of this in ways that advocate for the team but also navigate the politics of the organization.<p>All that said, I often get criticism that I should not be picking up coding tasks every sprint. There seems to be some unwritten rule that remaining a coder is a net negative when you start tickling the upper management ranks. On the one hand I&#x27;m told that I need to train the other managers to be more like me and then on the other hand I&#x27;m told that I code too much, I&#x27;m going to burn out and need to find ways have others do the work.<p>I personally think being able to do all kinds of coding tasks (prototyping, bug fixes, major time sensitive features, etc) does a lot for me as a manager... the team respects me, I stay close to the code so I can speak about it as well as anyone can and I can contribute to just about anything if the need arises. If I ever get promoted to Director level then I probably will have to step away from coding as an official duty, but I&#x27;ll happily keep enjoying that part of my job for now.
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Insanity5 个月前
Here are my two cents. I understand that there are coding things which I could do as an EM. And I can find time for it if I want to. But .. at any given time when I want to I have to decide if it is the most important thing I can do with my time. Sadly, the answer usually is “no”.<p>That did shift over time, I now manage teams maintaining three distinct products - and between managing the people and the products, setting the vision, dealing with customers.. there is just never any time for coding which isn’t taking away from the time I could better spent doing something else.
throw7428095 个月前
Throwaway because market is too bad to say the truth.<p>Managers who code learn they are inviting political suicide.<p>1. Managers need to navigate office politics - a full time and full energy job.<p>2. Other teams will use lack of 8 hours of &quot;coding output&quot; as a weapon to prove that manager is not working.<p>Putting more political pressure on them and their team.
nextworddev5 个月前
The trend is to cut down on these non hands on managers. If you are one of those, hold onto that job with dear life since they are disappearing
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cheema335 个月前
I was an engineering manager, but I am now more of a co-manager, because I suck at managing difficult engineers. Our business is small and we asked our product manager to help manage engineers too. She is not technical, but is great at managing people.<p>I now write software, assign tasks, hire and sometimes fire people too. But I don&#x27;t do the hard stuff of managing people, doing their reviews, encouraging and coaching them and giving them a shoulder to cry on. I know my limits.<p>I love this arrangement. Sharing a role works well if you can find someone who is good at what you suck at.
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WesleyJohnson5 个月前
I feel more at home as a Senior Dev, or maybe a Tech Lead&#x2F;Mentor, but here I am in management for the last 7 years. The article definitely resonates with me, as do many of the comments. I miss coding, deeply. I try to pick up the occasional project at work, but too often I have to turn it over due to lack of time. Sometimes I do not turn it over and it ends up taking far, far longer than it should have. I know I sometimes hold things too close to the chest. Delegating is not my strong suit but, in my mid 40&#x27;s, I&#x27;m getting better.<p>Whatever I&#x27;m doing, imposter syndrome be damned, seems to work. My team always look to me for help and plead with me to never leave; though I&#x27;m sure they&#x27;d find their way. I do find it difficult to keep up with all the projects going on at times, which complicates ongoing project discussions Especially when the developer isn&#x27;t the best at communicating effectively and I need to be the liaison between them and upper management. Trying to keep up with all of that is really what limits my time as a developer.<p>I was pleasantly surprised that the article linked a write-up on building an internal ChatBot. We&#x27;re been looking at doing the same through Elastic AI but scratching that itch myself seems fun. I just wonder how long it&#x27;ll be before I have to hand it over to someone else...
jweatherby5 个月前
Better than rolling out an AI to hopefully find the docs you&#x27;re looking for, it would be better to create an actual framework for the docs. This would remove uncertainty about where docs live and improve discoverability to peruse as needed.<p>AI and search is only as helpful as the content provided, and most applicable to those already familiar with the existing domain.
matsemann5 个月前
If you&#x27;re not touching code you&#x27;re not an engineering manager. You&#x27;re a manager that happens to oversee engineers.<p>I might be a bit jaded, but I don&#x27;t feel like I&#x27;ve seen an implementation of EMs I actually feel work well, at least from an IC perspective. The EM often ends up being a mix of both tech lead and all HR stuff, being overworked and unavailable, or neglecting one of the tasks.<p>I&#x27;ve actually preferred when my &quot;EM&quot; is on a different team than me. Can then speak freely to the person about issues in my team etc.
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hiyer5 个月前
I&#x27;ve seen organizations go in the opposite direction now with the hands-off individual contributor. Their only job seems to be to attend meetings and pass on the minutes to others.
isaacremuant5 个月前
Today in HN: catchy title to drive clicks to RAG tutorial.<p>Tweet like quality.
ChrisMarshallNY5 个月前
I was a &quot;first-line&quot; manager, for over 25 years. I managed a small, high-functioning team of experienced and mature C++ image pipeline engineers.<p>I chose not to go higher, because I felt that I was being most productive, where I was, and because, quite frankly, I didn&#x27;t trust anyone else to do the job right (I still believe that this was a correct assumption). I had absolutely no stomach, whatsoever, for the political games, &quot;above&quot; my level, and was making enough to keep me satisfied.<p>When I first became a manager, I continued to code, but, as time went on, I hired people who were better at it than I was (I was pretty good, but they were better), and also, I couldn&#x27;t be reliable enough to be in a &quot;critical path,&quot; so I worked on tools and experimental projects that didn&#x27;t have deadlines.<p>My managers <i>did not</i> want me coding. They actively discouraged me from it. Eventually, I stopped coding for the company (but kept coding on my own). I feel that continuing to code on my own, made me a <i>much</i> better manager. I think my bosses were dead wrong to discourage me from being technical. It was a cultural thing; not a practical one.<p>I feel that &quot;first-line&quot; managers should still be very technical. Maybe they shouldn&#x27;t have &quot;critical path&quot; responsibilities, but I believe that they should be absolutely conversant with the latest technologies and techniques, as well as be extremely sympathetic to the challenges faced by their employees.<p>I believe that the rules are different for higher-level managers.<p>BTW: I hated every minute of my work as a manager. I don&#x27;t regret it, but I was glad to see the back of it.
woadwarrior015 个月前
As a long time IC turned EM; in my experience non-technical EMs are alright, technical EMs are great, but pseudo-technical are the most dangerous both to the company and their direct reports. It&#x27;s like the midwit meme, but in real life.<p>Perhaps the belief is somewhat self serving, but I&#x27;ve seen dozens of examples of good non-technical EMs and good technical EMs, but never a good pseudo-technical EM. The pseudo-technical ones are so jaded with technical work that&#x27;s palpable.<p>Also, reminds me of the famous Elon Musk quote[1]:<p>&gt; Managers in software must write great software or it’s like being a cavalry captain who can’t ride a horse!<p>[1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;x.com&#x2F;elonmusk&#x2F;status&#x2F;1522609829553971200" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;x.com&#x2F;elonmusk&#x2F;status&#x2F;1522609829553971200</a>
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