They have not been trained for this

I just donated 133,7€ and will gladly do it again if further legal costs arise. Please consider also making a generous donation and post about it in this thread.<p>What Newag is doing here is absolutely vile. They want to charge 20.000€ per train to “reactivate” them after they have been serviced at third party workshops. We must not let them win and set a precedent.<p>I highly encourage everyone to watch the previous presentation: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;media.ccc.de&#x2F;v&#x2F;37c3-12142-breaking_drm_in_polish_trains" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;media.ccc.de&#x2F;v&#x2F;37c3-12142-breaking_drm_in_polish_tra...</a>

Looks like train manufacturers are taking a page out of the playbooks of many other companies today. The practice of manufacturers remotely disabling products after the time of purchase (for whatever reason) is becoming a scourge in many other product areas. The device&#x27;s manufacturer should have no say about how a product is used once money is handed over in exchange for it. This really has to stop. Regulatory agencies around the world are asleep to this problem.

Newag is also after the Chairwoman of the Parliamentary Team for Combating Transport Exclusion, MP Paulina Matysiak and filed for revoking her immunity. She&#x27;s been looking into the matter since the news broke last year.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;transinfo-pl.translate.goog&#x2F;inforail&#x2F;jest-wniosek-o-uchylenie-immunitetu-paulinie-matysiak-w-zwiazku-ze-sprawa-newagu&#x2F;?_x_tr_sl=auto&amp;_x_tr_tl=en&amp;_x_tr_hl=en" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;transinfo-pl.translate.goog&#x2F;inforail&#x2F;jest-wniosek-o-...</a>

I remember this story of “hackers” discovering that the train company disabled trains being serviced by competitors.<p>It’s a shame they are being sued.<p>Hopefully, they raise enough to do painful and invasive discovery.

What happened to the old moral rule of &quot;if you explain to your mom what you are doing and she is dismayed, you are doing things wrong&quot;?<p>Because what Newag is doing very clearly violates it.

Previous discussion, when it was first discovered - I am surprised there wasn&#x27;t more: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=38893116">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=38893116</a>

Can someone please summarize (for those of us who don&#x27;t know the full story) why the government(s) that bought these trojaned trains isn&#x27;t ripping the train vendor a new orifice, and pinning medals on the hackers who exposed this?

This is almost universal. If manufacturers are not already doing this they are planning it.<p>There is a lot of anxiety around the business model because a lot of the world is advancing and manufacturers are popping up everywhere with cheaper machines on offer. The moats are disappearing and durable goods manufacturers are clamoring for the next wave in the business model: subscription services for maintenance and support.<p>Ford has a connected fleet service offering that is picking up steam and could prove very lucrative in the commercial vehicle space.<p>A lot of this is rooted in an eroding labor pool that is lacking in bodies, training and experience.<p>This train fiasco is definitely bordering on criminal but it isn&#x27;t far off from the wave of &quot;progress&quot; that is taking place.

Sadly, I suspect discoveries like this will only cause other companies to learn from it --- by making it even more difficult to discover their &quot;plausible-deniability&quot; tricks, and hiding them under the guise of &quot;security&quot;. Big Tech has been playing that game for a while:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=36926276">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=36926276</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=24955071">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=24955071</a>

Newag is acting like the mafia here: &quot;Wouldn&#x27;t it be a shame if your trains stopped working..?&quot;<p>Not that I want to tell the Polish how to do things (I don&#x27;t), but a satisfying outcome would be one where they found out precisely who gave the order to program Newag trains like that and then jail them. Add to their jailtime for each train that is found running the software and force Newag to do free maintenance on those trains.<p>If Poland wants to show a hard stance on how to deal with people trying to fuck over the public to earn money that&#x27;s as good as its gonna get. If Poland wants to tell everybody that fucking the polish public pays off even if there is overwhelming evidence that you did it — ok.

Is no one suing the manufacturer for vandalizing the trains?

The CCC are heroes and should be celebrated as such.

I wonder why there are no lawsuits from the companies that had to pay to unlock the trains and did not get any documentation what was fixed&#x2F;replaced to get it running (in 10min) especially that it was not a single train that had to be unlocked. It&#x27;s like having ransomware on the plc.

we live in a post intellectual property age. its about manufacturing and resources now. it is overwhelmingly used to suppress upstarts and remove diverse competition in the market before they can get their legs. regulators go on to work for the companies they regulated. The conflicts of interest create an oligopoly that is more about lawyers than about engineering.<p>its time we repealed it all. no one gets to own an idea of the universe. especially not a faceless org created for tax purposes.

Is there a reason they aren’t slapping up a Bitcoin or ethereum or even monero wallet address for crypto donations?!<p>Seems like they are taking a stance against crypto? Why else not use this perfect new decentralized medium for financial support?

&gt; If more than the € 30,000 required to date is donated, if the legal costs are lower or if court costs are repaid, all payments received in excess will be used for the statutory purposes of the Chaos Computer Club e.V.. Please note that the CCC e.V. is not formally recognised as a non-profit organisation.<p>That is one sure way to make people not donate to the cause. I want to support the people, but I don&#x27;t want my money to go elsewhere, and there is no way of knowing how much has been raised to date or guarantees to get the funds back when the legal costs eventually get covered by Newag. The only guarantee stated is that they will definitely use money for something else. Not OK.