TE
科技回声
首页24小时热榜最新最佳问答展示工作
GitHubTwitter
首页

科技回声

基于 Next.js 构建的科技新闻平台,提供全球科技新闻和讨论内容。

GitHubTwitter

首页

首页最新最佳问答展示工作

资源链接

HackerNews API原版 HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 科技回声. 版权所有。

Why some DVLA digital services don't work at night

124 点作者 edent4 个月前

13 条评论

abigail954 个月前
Something is missing here, why do batch jobs take 13 hours? If this thing was started on an old mainframe why isn&#x27;t the downtime just 5 minutes at 3:39 AM?<p>Exactly how much data is getting processed?<p>Edit: Why does rebuilding take a decade or more? This is not a complex system. It doesn&#x27;t need to solve any novel engineering challenges to operate efficiently. Article does not give much insight into why this particular task couldn&#x27;t be fixed in 3 months.
评论 #42727182 未加载
评论 #42730222 未加载
评论 #42727884 未加载
评论 #42727086 未加载
评论 #42727097 未加载
评论 #42732143 未加载
simonbarker874 个月前
Excellent bit of pragmatism and as a user of this service I’m happy with the trade off.<p>People wondering why it’s not a simple switch and “there must be something else going on here” have clearly never worked with layers of legacy systems where the data actually matters. Sure it’s fixable and it’s a shame it hasn’t been but don’t assume there aren’t very good reasons why it’s not a quick fix.<p>The gov.uk team have moved mountains over the past decade, members of it have earned the right to be believed when they say “it’s not simple”.
评论 #42731952 未加载
ForHackernews4 个月前
Unpopular opinion, but I think many systems would benefit from a regular &quot;downtime window&quot;. Not everything needs to be 24&#x2F;7 high availability.<p>Maybe not every night, but if you get users accustomed to the idea that you&#x27;re offline for 12 hours every Sunday morning, they will not be angry when you need to be offline for 12 hours on a Sunday morning to do maintenance.<p>The stock market closes, more things should close. We are paying too high of a price for 99.999% uptime when 99.9% is plenty for most applications.
评论 #42727458 未加载
评论 #42727676 未加载
评论 #42727059 未加载
评论 #42726175 未加载
rozab4 个月前
I&#x27;ve often ran into this when using DVLA services and spluttered with indignation. But at the end of the day, these services are fantastically usable (during the daytime) and I appreciate Dafydd pushing to just get them out there!<p>I got my license in 2015 so never in my life have I had the apparently ubiquitous American experience of queuing at the DMV and filling in paper forms. (is this still real? or limited to stand-up comedy?)
评论 #42727198 未加载
评论 #42726125 未加载
评论 #42726065 未加载
pestatije4 个月前
DVLA - Driver &amp; Vehicle Licensing Agency<p>plus, since im already posting a comment: its because there is no batch window to process transactions
delta_p_delta_x4 个月前
Some DVLA services don&#x27;t work in the day, too. Case in point, the &#x27;get a share code&#x27; service: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.viewdrivingrecord.service.gov.uk&#x2F;driving-record&#x2F;licence-number" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.viewdrivingrecord.service.gov.uk&#x2F;driving-record&#x2F;...</a>
arjie4 个月前
While these explanations are plausible, certain other things I&#x27;ve encountered make me believe that deeper reasons underlie even these reasons. When I lived in the UK in 2017 as a foreigner, all applications for a driving licence as a foreigner on a T2-ICT visa had to be sent over for a couple of weeks and you had to include your passport and Biometric Residence Permit and everything. By comparison, I was able to get my driving licence at the California DMV pretty easily even as a foreigner and my passport and so on were photocopied and not retained. This drastic difference in service ability between the DVLA and a notoriously disliked American government service lead me to believe that the proximal technical causes for this are downstream from organizational choices for how to deliver service.
评论 #42731427 未加载
robertlagrant4 个月前
The cause is easy: the people specifying the problem to be solved don&#x27;t ask for an independent set of tests that are human-readable and can be run automatically to verify the system.<p>If they did that, then the system would be verifiable and so would changes to it - the tests would simply need to be adapted to talk to the new version of the system.<p>Too late now, of course. But that&#x27;s what should be done.
ajb4 个月前
This doesn&#x27;t explain why the website can&#x27;t just validate the input, queue up the transaction, and execute it later when the dB is available. It&#x27;s not like your record changes that often. If the transaction fails they can then just send you an email to try again during working hours. All these processes used to work by paper forms, so most of them don&#x27;t need interactive processing - that&#x27;s why they have a batch job in the first place.<p>My GP surgery has the same issue with non-urgent requests. It&#x27;s entirely input, it&#x27;s definitely not looking in a dB because it doesn&#x27;t even ask who you are until the last step. And yet it won&#x27;t accept an input except during working hours. Madness.
评论 #42733127 未加载
mike_hearn4 个月前
tl;dr same reason other services go offline at night: concurrency is hard and many computations aren&#x27;t thread safe, so need to run serially against stable snapshots of the data. If you don&#x27;t have a database that can provide that efficiently you have no choice but to stop the flow of inbound transactions entirely.<p>Sounds like Dafydd did the right thing in pushing them to deliver some value now and not try to rebuild everything right away. A common mistake I&#x27;ve seen some people make is assuming that overnight batch jobs that have to shut down the service are some side effect of using mainframes, and any new system that uses newer tech won&#x27;t have that problem.<p>In reality getting rid of those kinds of batch jobs is often a hard engineering project that requires a redesign of the algorithms or changes to business processes. A classic example is in banking where the ordering of these jobs can change real world outcomes (e.g. are interest payments made first and then cheques processed, or vice-versa?).<p>In other cases it&#x27;s often easier for users to understand a system that shuts down overnight. If the rule is &quot;things submitted by 9pm will be processed by the next day&quot; then it&#x27;s easy to explain. If the rule is &quot;you can submit at any time and it <i>might</i> be processed by the next day&quot;, depending on whether or not it happens to intersect the snapshot taken at the start of that particular batch job, then that can be more frustrating than helpful.<p>Sometimes the jobs are batch just because of mainframe limitations and not for any other reason, those can be made incremental more easily if you can get off the mainframe platform to begin with. But that requires rewriting huge amounts of code, hence the popularity of emulators and code transpilers.
评论 #42726950 未加载
评论 #42735550 未加载
评论 #42726889 未加载
glonq4 个月前
This sounds a bit familiar. I used to work at a medium-sized company whose systems were based on COBOL code and Unisys mini&#x2F;mainframe hardware from the 80&#x27;s. We even had a person employed as a &quot;tape ape&quot;; thankfully not me. Throughout the next decade or two they tried various 4GL-generated facades and bolt-ons but could never escape from that COBOL core. Eventually I think they migrated the software to some kind of big box that emulated the Unisys environment but was slightly more civilized. I have no idea whether they ever eradicated all the COBOL though.
IOT_Apprentice4 个月前
This seems weird to me. The number of records is minuscule compared to internet scale tech.<p>The data model for this sounds like it would be simple. Exactly how many use cases are there to be implemented?<p>Build this with modern tech on HA Linux backends. Eliminate the batch job nonsense.<p>This could be written up as a project for bootcamps or even a YouTube series.<p>I suspect some internal politics about moving forward and clinging to old methods is at hand.<p>Perhaps someone could build an open source platform if the requirements were made public.
评论 #42731209 未加载
neuroelectron4 个月前
I&#x27;m sure the upgrade would have been trivial for a competent expert to do but instead they outsourced it to a big software firm and surprise, it went over-budget. Seriously, what could this database be doing that&#x27;s so complicated?