Is Berlin the new home for tech start-up business? [video]

I'm an NZ expat who has lived in Berlin for the last few years. While Berlin is cool, let me present a caveat...<p>I've enjoyed the music scene and cheap rent, but have experienced major culture shock. It is a very intense place, full of contradiction, i.e. extremely open-minded in some areas and absurdly conservate in others. Berlin alternatively challenges and reaffirms one's various values.<p>Sometimes it seems like the 'adults' have left the city and left the 'kids' in charge. At other times, it feels impossible to breathe without violating some ponderous rule. Many are sucked into what is called a 'Berlinquency' - an existence in which one is spoilt by the hedonism, looseness, and condusiveness to self-obsession this place affords.<p>The tech scene is ok. There are a lot of clones. Some great meetups, though. It all seems to be on the up. Watch this space. And visit for a month before deciding to move here.

I'm a young developer living in Germany. Here's my perspective. Berlin is cheap, affordable, has an international culture (I'm an emmigrant) and pretty much something to offer to everyone, so the city itself just has a good attraction for young people.<p>I don't know why the startup scene has started booming here but just type in "web start-up" at indeed (<a href="http://www.indeed.de/Jobs?q=web+start-up&#38;l=berlin" rel="nofollow">http://www.indeed.de/Jobs?q=web+start-up&#38;l=berlin</a>) and you'll get 275 results. Plus the UK has cracked down on emmigration laws and Germany has opened them up, at least for engineers, etc. b/c of the "Fachkräftemangel" i.e. the fact that the Germans lack skilled laborers. So whereas before for Europeans and especially Eastern europeans the UK was #1 its now changing b/c Germany is closer and easier. Also Germany seems more open to Europeans period, the UK with Cameron is doing all it can to shun the rest of Europe. The only problem I see, is that you still need to know German to get around ( which no one studies in school), which for instance is why my brother hasn't come.<p>EDIT: I guess I exaggerated with the "no one studies in school" bit. My point is that english is the only language we are all pounded into learning regardless of whether or not we have an interest in languages or a talent for them, so we can at least function at some level with english. German, however, is not the lingua franca I think we can all agree on that. I'm quadlingual (if that's a word), but not all talented developers like languages as well and unfortunately whatever the germans say, you still need to know german if you want to assimilate in germany, get an apartment, go shopping, and live life.

I am a foreigner who has been working as a developer or manager in the software sector in Germany for around 10 years. For a couple of years I have been trying to move towards self-employment, with some ups and downs, but I am making progress on a project together with my wife. Last year I had the chance to switch jobs and move elsewhere so I naturally targeted Berlin. I would like to keep working in a high-paying job while funding the startup that I work on in my free time. I noticed a few things:<p>There are a quite a few startup jobs, but they are low end, low paying. Many pay even less than what I started on 10 years ago. They are looking for those starting their first job I think. I get the feeling Berlin startups get a lot less funding that other startups. Even the non-startup jobs that require more experience seem to pay a lot less, and even with the slightly cheaper rent than other cities, I couldn't find any attractive options. The official work experience I have on my CV is more enterprisy stuff like .NET and lots of stuff startups care less about like Scrum, Kanban, management in general and agile software development. I do have experience with things like Ruby, Python and JavaScript, but even startup employers were only interested in what was on my CV.<p>Not complaining or anything, just trying to help get a feel on what I found while looking there last year.<p>I found a good job near Frankfurt, and who knows, maybe I will end up in Berlin later, but I feel I might not need to. Frankfurt has a startup scene (and a rich financial sector). So does Cologne where I used to live.

Home for start-up business? Yes. For tech start-ups? I don't think so. I have yet to meet one engineer-driven tech start-up from Berlin. Most founders I met and know are some business guys with oh-so-clever ideas looking for just the right CTO guy to make their plan reality. And most German developers I know also never thought about working for a start-up. They happily flock to every large German company you may know. The previous start-up I worked for had more Spanish developers than German ones.

On the 'fake it,till you make it' path,Berlin seems to be right in the 'fake it' part.You guys write about low costs of living,however there are cheaper places in Eastern Europe with better tech talent availability overall.You mention the nightlife and a couple of the clubs are indeed world class,but I'd doubt it that you go there more than 5 times a year.The internet in Germany is borderline third world quality,in Bulgaria and Romania you get some of the fastest internet in the world for a fraction of the price you'd pay in Germany.The women are better than in the UK,but far from the best looking in the world.<p>What I'm trying to say with this point is,I don't really see the advantage of being in Berlin in the early stages of your business too,when you're just a 3 people shop,busting your asses all day to move things forward<p>Having written all that,I loved Berlin during my few months stay.

I'm an engineer who visited Berlin earlier this year and loved the city - it's like my home town of Melbourne, Australia which I love, but just MORE of it.<p>I already had the itch to leave my 9-5 and go somewhere for an adventure, so when I got home I set about working out what I'd need to do to head over there and how much capital I'd need for about 6-months self sustained living in Berlin (came out to about $15,000AUD, thanks to the current strong AUD).<p>I found out one of my close (engineer) friends was also looking to leave his job and do something interesting and exciting, so I've convinced him to come with me too. Succeed or fail, it really seems like we could be part of something exciting in Berlin! Any advice on dos and don't would be appreciated.

I've been back and forth from Berlin for a little while now. My company's home base is in NYC, but I sometimes work out of Berlin.<p>Even this year while I was there (Feb. - May), the startup scene is exploding. I liken it to the satisfaction of knowing of a great band before everyone else: there's no doubt that Berlin will be muttered in the same breath as the Valley, NYC and London. It's only a matter of time.<p>The German culture can be a bit harsh to outsiders, but the Berlin startup scene more than makes up for that. The folks there are very kind and always willing to entertain a good conversation.

I'm from Berlin, so I naturally enjoy the kind of hype that's being created since one or two years ago. However, I'd like to stress what someone in the video said: It's just budding and really not yet comparable to New York or London. There are quite a couple of cool start-ups here now, but still few with innovative breakthrough technology and also few large investors. But I see it coming, too.<p>I guess this will also become a self-fulfilling prophecy. For ten years people have been telling how cool Berlin is and a lot creative people were attracted. Now everyone's telling about the new tech start-up scene and that will attract even more talented people - hopefully also large investors.<p>Interesting times ahead!

Berlin is a FANTASTIC city to bootstrap your project ...<p>reasons: 1. cheap cost of living, 2. availability of relatively well paid contract work, 3. A very supportive startup / creative community who are willing to share info and resources, 4. A very smart and creative demographic, 5. wonderful bars, clubs, and restaurants, 6. German people are actually a decent bunch :)<p>disadvantages: 1. over-strict regulations in dealing with Banking and Regulatory bodies (whatever you do, do NOT sign up for a postbank a/c), 2. Less than ideal weather.<p>Overall a win I think, which is why I continue to call Berlin my home.

So if someone wanted to relocate to Berlin to start a company, or to expand a team into europe, how would they go about that?<p>Where do people want to live? Where to locate offices? Where do you find good talent? What are the legal steps to do so? Any pitfalls to avoid? Others should feel free to jump on this.

Berlin is ramping up quickly. We get applications from all around the world. This is great and was much different just 12 Month ago. The hockey stick kicks in, now!<p>One comment on English: It is much easier than most non-english speaking cities and most international talent can manage the daily tasks within weeks.<p>check out foundfair.de and contact us in case you need help getting settled.

What's the international position on this? I am living/working in the UK startup scene and it seems to me Berlin could become europe early stage garage very soon. Personally i believe London might be still the place to be after P/M Fit (the place to be in europe…)<p>What's the US take on this ? Do people actually care outside of the german speaking areas and maybe Uk?

It all sounds interesting and I've been meaning to drop my corporate job for some time now. So is there a Berlin startup news site (preferably in English) so I could get a feel what kind of startups are there?<p>EDIT: <a href="http://siliconallee.com/" rel="nofollow">http://siliconallee.com/</a> seems to be the thing I was looing for, anything else?

Main reasons for Berlin are its young and creative culture, affordable prices (rents, food etc) and overall great quality of live. The city itself is not the prettiest though, but it has its charme :)<p>Ive been there a few times at pitch/startups events and always liked the locations and overall vibe.

In the UK there is no consent among the investors where the action should go. I was quite surprised to learn than basically every credible accelerator has it's own view of where my start-up should be based.<p>Oxygen - Birmingham<p>Ignite100 - New Castle<p>Seedcamp - London<p>I get their desire to improve local culture but hey this is just ridiculous to ask me to settle somewhere because you gave me some money. Also, start-ups thrive in a tech-savvy areas only.<p>This all adds to the problem and Berlin has all the odds to become the answer.

Wow, timing is everything. I had booked my ticket 2 days ago for Berlin. I am finishing up my time at StartupChile and heading to Berlin after being convinced by many at SUP, that Berlin has many things happening. I needed a high quality affordable city, that was startup friendly and supported my photography addiction. Berlin hopefully will allow me the time to focus and finish my two iOS games.

I would love to buy one of the 10,000 sq metre mills 5 mins taxi from Manchester's central Picadilly train station and turn it into startup accomodation. We're only 2 hours from London's Euston!! (So less than 3 hours from Shorditch)<p>Berlin however does seem to have the greatest multicultural vibe going for it for startups. It's pretty impressive, and I hope to sample it later in the year :)

How is life for non white people? I'm from latin-america.

Any city has its pros and cons. I am currently an intern in a tech start-up in Paris, the city has many co-working spaces / incubators. The start-up scene is bigger every day, and yes you won't speak french 70% of the day.<p>Anyway just saying the document seems to be a nice post card from Berlin but the same things are happening everywhere.<p>Last year it was Paris (Wired.com): <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt2bHumqDFs" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt2bHumqDFs</a>

I enjoyed the time I spent in Berlin last year and I've considered going back there but this seems imprudent with the Euro on the verge of implosion.

Here's a shameless plug: Listen to the Radio Spaetkauf podcast if you want insights into life in Berlin from an international perspective. <a href="http://www.radiospaetkauf.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.radiospaetkauf.com</a>

Don't mean to threadjack, but I'd love to team up in Berlin with a biz cofounder. If you're looking for an early employee or technical cofounder, please email me: yctechmgr at gmail.com - tell me something about your startup.

Does anyone know how the start-up scene in Berlin compares to that in Paris? They seem to be two of the biggest contenders for the SV of Europe.<p>I think Spain tried something similar with Barcelona that ended up fizzing out.

One of the things we still need to work on in Berlinis connecting people better. ;)<p>So some notes and links.<p>* Introductory notes<p>* Entry points / sites<p>* Finding out about events<p>* Getting a job<p>* Got links? Please provide<p><i>_________________ INTRODUCTORY NOTES _________________</i><p>Per se there are two different circles of startup folk in Germany. The german / Germany oriented ones, what I usually call "the victims of the language island" (everything in Germany is dubbed - movies, tv, books).<p>The second, more interesting level is the international mindset, the people who are mentally oriented toward silicon valley. Both group usually do not mingle and the following applies for that second group and explain part of the reason why Berlin is special.<p>This group has accepted english as their lingua franca and people come from all over the world, enjoying not only the benefits listed in the other comments, but the feeling of "being able to make it here". The absence of any enterprise like structure due to the past with the wall enables in many ways what Berlin is today.<p>There is of course an echo chamber effect for this group and once you connect, you run into the usual startups very quickly. ;)<p><i>_________________ ENTRY POINTS _________________</i><p>Your Nr 1. starting point for meeting people ;) English speaking Berlin startup group on Facebook with ~2400 members.<p><a href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/159595270791268/" rel="nofollow">https://www.facebook.com/groups/159595270791268/</a><p>Follow that if you are interested in meeting people and or asking questions. Hint: Do not try to post stuff which is does not have the "Berlin and startup" relevant connection and do not try to sneak in a "but in theory this is about startups ...", I will delete the post and ban you permanently.<p>Looking for a job / employee / co founder does belong into the sister group (<a href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/395011077224173/" rel="nofollow">https://www.facebook.com/groups/395011077224173/</a>)<p>__<p>General sites to read:<p><a href="http://venturevillage.eu/" rel="nofollow">http://venturevillage.eu/</a><p><a href="http://siliconallee.com/" rel="nofollow">http://siliconallee.com/</a><p><a href="http://www.techberlin.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.techberlin.com/</a><p>__<p>We also have a strong women in tech movement in Berlin:<p><a href="http://berlingeekettes.com/" rel="nofollow">http://berlingeekettes.com/</a> is both interview site and meetup; I run <a href="http://girlgeekdinner.de/" rel="nofollow">http://girlgeekdinner.de/</a> which will happen more frequently once I am relocated. ;)<p>__<p>Find a Co-Working spaces:<p><a href="https://www.deskwanted.com/berlin.html" rel="nofollow">https://www.deskwanted.com/berlin.html</a><p><a href="http://www.berlin-partner.de/?id=1243&#38;L=1" rel="nofollow">http://www.berlin-partner.de/?id=1243&#38;L=1</a> is the official place from Berlin<p>to help people coming to Berlin, they are very helpful too with business needs<p>with a special attention to startups.<p><i>_________________ EVENTS _________________</i><p>Event listings as in "is there something happening ..."<p><a href="http://berlinwebweek.de/" rel="nofollow">http://berlinwebweek.de/</a><p>Get the weekly Newsletter with new events:<p><a href="http://startupdigest.com/berlin/" rel="nofollow">http://startupdigest.com/berlin/</a><p>Berlin tech user groups links:<p><a href="http://co-up.de/2011/10/14/usergroup-list.html" rel="nofollow">http://co-up.de/2011/10/14/usergroup-list.html</a><p>Monthly radio show about Berlin Startups<p><a href="http://fridayat6.de/" rel="nofollow">http://fridayat6.de/</a><p>Not very active but still: Berlin StartUp Employees<p><a href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/238420286238628/" rel="nofollow">https://www.facebook.com/groups/238420286238628/</a><p>Meetup.com has tons of groups and meetups beyond startup land<p><a href="http://www.meetup.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.meetup.com</a> and then go Berlin<p><i>_________________ GETTING A JOB _________________</i><p>If you are looking for a job in Berlin, are a Berlin based startup looking for employees or for a co founder, this facebook group can be helful for you<p><a href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/395011077224173/" rel="nofollow">https://www.facebook.com/groups/395011077224173/</a><p>__<p>Job boards with a special focus on Berlin startups:<p><a href="http://berlinstartupjobs.com/" rel="nofollow">http://berlinstartupjobs.com/</a><p><a href="http://venturevillage.eu/jobs/" rel="nofollow">http://venturevillage.eu/jobs/</a><p><a href="http://siliconallee.com/madeinberlin" rel="nofollow">http://siliconallee.com/madeinberlin</a> (this is a list of some startups made in berlin + links to job pages if available.)<p><a href="http://meetfounder.com/" rel="nofollow">http://meetfounder.com/</a> (if you are looking for a co-founder)<p>__<p>Finding companies to work for<p><a href="http://hascore.com/" rel="nofollow">http://hascore.com/</a> limits itself to "Hascore is a job board focused on Product Development for the Berlin Startup Scene that provides relevant context for making better decisions" BUT because the way they list their jobs you can surf through it and find the links to lots of companies.<p>__<p>Listings mostly in German<p><a href="http://jobslike.me/" rel="nofollow">http://jobslike.me/</a><p><a href="http://www.gruenderszene.de/jobboerse/" rel="nofollow">http://www.gruenderszene.de/jobboerse/</a><p><a href="https://www.xing.com/net/pridec7dbx/startup-berlin/jobangebote-580691/" rel="nofollow">https://www.xing.com/net/pridec7dbx/startup-berlin/jobangebo...</a><p><i>_________________ Any additions? _________________</i><p>Happy to take that into the list<p>Also I am always looking for people to add to my<p>"English tweeting people from Berlin with startup affinity"<p><a href="https://twitter.com/#!/nicolesimon/berlin-internationals" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/#!/nicolesimon/berlin-internationals</a><p>hth<p>Nicole

Berlin is amazing; lived there for a year.<p>Plus records produces in Berlin include: U2 (Achtung Baby), David Bowie (Low,Heroes, and Lodger) , and Depeche Mode (Construction Time Again).

feel free to drop me a mail if you want to know anything about working at soundcloud. i'm an engineer. rany@soundcloud.com

This seems interesting, but I have one question: what about taxes?<p>Any tax breaks for tech startups? what about employee/healthcare costs?

Top 5 reasons why you should move to Berlin, now:<p>1. Lowest livings costs with highest quality of living. Stay in gorgeous, perfectly renovated apartments in pre-WWII residential buildings with high ceilings, right in the middle of the center and pay a fraction of costs of any other capital (even cheaper than any Eastern European capital). No need for a car—Berlin has one of the densest subway nets and wide streets make biking fun. In addition, Germany has an amazing social health care system including health, unemployment and pension (when working as an employee).<p>2. A vibrant and fast growing ecosystem of smart people. A vast number of new software talents, founders, software companies and VCs are moving to Berlin, every day (Twitter, Google, Soundcloud, Early Bird and many more).<p>3. People here are open-minded, outgoing, mix well and international—no need to learn German, everyone speaks English! Making new friends is a matter of days. Visit tons of networking and startup events, every week.<p>4. Easy work permissions—Europeans do not need any and can work from day one and the rest applies for the hassle-free Blue Card.<p>5. Berlin's night life is unmatched, huge and changing every day (plus ridiculously cheap). Berlin has got some of the most dazzling, naughty, and original clubs on the face of the Earth.<p>Now, the shameless plug: Berlin is calling and getting the new tech hub of Europe. If you are passionate about building great software, we’d love to talk with you. If you don't live in Berlin yet, we could help to fix that.<p>=&#62; <a href="http://urge.io/jobs" rel="nofollow">http://urge.io/jobs</a>