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The Tyranny of Structurelessness (1970)

387 点作者 rzk4 个月前

24 条评论

PaulHoule4 个月前
A classic essay whose significance goes way beyond women or feminism. I&#x27;ve been part of a few &quot;structureless&quot; groups which spontaneously organized around an opportunity and were initially effective because of that structureless (e.g. somebody gets an idea, the whole group moves like a military unit, opponents had <i>no idea</i> something like that could happen) but succumbed to the dynamics in that article on a time scale of three weeks (arguably ended a public company in that time!) to three years.
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a_square_peg4 个月前
I recommend this essay often to people, especially in a start up. When someone describes their organization as being &quot;flat&quot;, it&#x27;s often a red flag because it means that there are unwritten power structure that newer employees will likely be excluded from.
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whatshisface4 个月前
There should be a counterpart to this, &quot;the tyranny of trying to encode an entire human mind in procedure.&quot;<p>As well as, &quot;the tyranny of pretending that rules are much more absolute than their authors.&quot; :-)
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matthest4 个月前
On the flip side, Paul Kennedy&#x27;s &quot;The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers&quot; is a fascinating read on the benefits of decentralization.<p>The premise is that in the 1500s, no one thought Europe was going to be the next great power. The dominant civilizations at the time were the Chinese and the Ottomans.<p>Why did Europe win? Because no one could unify Europe. It was basically a collection of states.<p>Whereas China and the Ottoman Empire were centralized. The problem with centralization is that if the guy at the top says to do something, everyone must fall in line, even if it&#x27;s a bad idea.<p>China used to have the most dominant navel fleet in the world. Then in the early 1500s, their government decided to stop building ships. Which ultimately led to them falling behind in the world order.<p>In Europe however, even if one country received a decree to stop building ships, it wouldn&#x27;t stop the others from doing so. This created a hotbed of innovation and competition that allowed them to develop rapidly. And establish dominance.<p>The trade offs between centralization and decentralization are fascinating.
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mjw10074 个月前
The part which describes the circumstances where she&#x27;s seen an unstructured group work is interesting.<p>In particular, this condition<p>&gt; Its function is very narrow and very specific, like putting on a conference or putting out a newspaper. It is the task that basically structures the group. The task determines what needs to be done and when it needs to be done. It provides a guide by which people can judge their actions and make plans for future activity.<p>is a good match for many free software projects.<p>That&#x27;s one of four conditions she thinks are necessary. The other three are interesting too.
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duxup4 个月前
Great read.<p>&gt;The basic problems didn&#x27;t appear until individual rap groups exhausted the virtues of consciousness-raising and decided they wanted to do something more specific.<p>I do think of some of the &quot;awareness&quot; activism I see where it never seems to lead anywhere. Folks are just busy with their awareness activities and everything is deemed good because they&#x27;re generating awareness. Like minded people do their awareness thing, they like to do it, and there ya go... awareness is sort of its own means to an end and I&#x27;m not sure the given individuals or groups are structured in a way that they&#x27;ll ever be capable of more.<p>I&#x27;d even argue that some of these structureless groups are incapable of much critical discussion as their group exists purely because of their awareness raising efforts, it is what they are, change might take some leadership.
kqr4 个月前
It seems like a lot of people do not make it to the end of this essay. Any time it comes up people invariably go, &quot;Yeah, so that is why we should institute a hierarchy&quot; which is not at all what Freeman was saying.<p>&gt; Once the movement no longer clings tenaciously to the ideology of &quot;structurelessness,&quot; it is free to develop those forms of organization best suited to its healthy functioning. This does not mean that we should go to the other extreme and blindly imitate the traditional forms of organization.<p>She mentions some concrete ideas:<p>- Leaders do not select their teams, instead, teams select their spokesperson. A spokesperson does not have authority over the team but can make decisions on their behalf in conversation with other spokespeople.<p>- Rotating the role of spokesperson among the eligible of the team. Possibly even having multiple spokespeople on the same team for different types of decisions.<p>- Set up processes to ensure someone does not sit on important information others do not have access to. All data should be public in the group.<p>- etc.<p>This is far from instituting an explicit hierarchy!
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jll294 个月前
Clicked on it in the expectation of encountering an attack on schema-free databases and &quot;NoSQL&quot;... only to find it is about social groups ;)
sitkack4 个月前
I would be curious what others would recommend as management books or anything related to organizational psychology in this topic.<p>Books I can think of are<p>&quot;Reinventing Organizations&quot; by Frederic Laloux <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Reinventing_Organizations" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Reinventing_Organizations</a><p>&quot;Delivering Happiness&quot; by Tony Hsieh <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Delivering_Happiness" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Delivering_Happiness</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;hbr.org&#x2F;2011&#x2F;12&#x2F;first-lets-fire-all-the-managers" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;hbr.org&#x2F;2011&#x2F;12&#x2F;first-lets-fire-all-the-managers</a>
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treetalker4 个月前
This has been posted several times over the last several years, with a total of about 100 comments.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;hn.algolia.com&#x2F;?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.jofreeman.com%2Fjoreen%2Ftyranny.htm" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;hn.algolia.com&#x2F;?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.jofreeman.com%2F...</a>
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nialv74 个月前
This made me lose a bit of faith in humanity, because it seems like when a group of humans get together, no matter what kind of structure the group take, it&#x27;s going to be bad in some way.<p>Hierarchical, flat, or structureless (as pointed out by this article); with a rigid procedure, without a rigid procedure. Doesn&#x27;t matter how the group is organized, it&#x27;s going to be bad in some way.
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velcrovan4 个月前
Reminds me of the Zappos holacracy madness.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;qz.com&#x2F;work&#x2F;1776841&#x2F;zappos-has-quietly-backed-away-from-holacracy" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;qz.com&#x2F;work&#x2F;1776841&#x2F;zappos-has-quietly-backed-away-f...</a>
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robertclaus4 个月前
I&#x27;ve run into a similar problem many times at small companies. Effectively rejecting the idea of structure because of slippery-slope arguments. I&#x27;ve had pretty senior folks make comments like &quot;If we require PR reviews on every little change, we&#x27;ll be just like &lt;pick an unpopular large tech company&gt; and take forever to do anything.&quot;
qntty4 个月前
<i>The Tyranny of Structurelessness</i> and <i>The Gervais Principle</i> are the two essays that I think about a lot at work.
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lkrubner4 个月前
I&#x27;ve written about the poor style of decision making that often happens at &quot;flat&quot; organizations. Repeating a point that Jo Freeman makes, without a leader or a process for decision making, flat organizations make decisions accidentally. The winners tend to be whoever is the most stubborn. See &quot;The Accidental Democracy of Flat Organizations&quot;:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;respectfulleadership.substack.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;the-accidental-democracy-of-flat" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;respectfulleadership.substack.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;the-accidental-d...</a>
bell-cot4 个月前
Sounds like she majored in Mathematics - but Wikipedia say Political Science.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Jo_Freeman" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Jo_Freeman</a>
dang4 个月前
Related. Others?<p><i>The Tyranny of Structurelessness (1970)</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=36285097">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=36285097</a> - June 2023 (73 comments)<p><i>Jo Freeman&#x27;s the Tyranny of Structurelessness (Recommended by Mark Andreesen)</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=31829486">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=31829486</a> - June 2022 (1 comment)<p><i>The Tyranny of Structurelessness (1970)</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=24728477">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=24728477</a> - Oct 2020 (19 comments)<p><i>The Tyranny of Structurelessness (1973)</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=17585104">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=17585104</a> - July 2018 (20 comments)<p><i>The Tyranny of Structurelessness</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=15535834">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=15535834</a> - Oct 2017 (2 comments)<p><i>The Tyranny of Structurelessness (1972)</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=11651406">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=11651406</a> - May 2016 (54 comments)<p><i>“Meritocracy” and the Tyranny of Structurelessness</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=8495241">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=8495241</a> - Oct 2014 (1 comment)<p><i>The Tyranny of Structurelessness</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=7762486">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=7762486</a> - May 2014 (15 comments)<p><i>RE: The “Tyranny of Structurelessness”</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=7555013">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=7555013</a> - April 2014 (7 comments)<p><i>The Tyranny of Structurelessness (1970)</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=7409611">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=7409611</a> - March 2014 (120 comments)
red_admiral4 个月前
Every time this comes up, more people get pulled in to understand the point. Long may this continue!
dr_dshiv4 个月前
I love &quot;lessness&quot; words in english. Structurelessness is a pretty great word.
mxmilkiib4 个月前
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.seedsforchange.org.uk" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.seedsforchange.org.uk</a>
aSanchezStern4 个月前
Anybody have a link to a description of the &quot;Lot system&quot; mentioned near the end?
ewrong4 个月前
The tyranny of terrible typography?
rcy4 个月前
I get a 403 on this page. Is there another source?
killjoywashere4 个月前
Every data structure comes with costs. You give some to get others. Nothing in here should be surprising.