TE
科技回声
首页24小时热榜最新最佳问答展示工作
GitHubTwitter
首页

科技回声

基于 Next.js 构建的科技新闻平台,提供全球科技新闻和讨论内容。

GitHubTwitter

首页

首页最新最佳问答展示工作

资源链接

HackerNews API原版 HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 科技回声. 版权所有。

Hands-on Assignment – Therac-25 (2007)

106 点作者 luu4 个月前

16 条评论

doormatt4 个月前
<a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.mit.edu&#x2F;6.033&#x2F;2007&#x2F;wwwdocs&#x2F;assignments&#x2F;handson-liability.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.mit.edu&#x2F;6.033&#x2F;2007&#x2F;wwwdocs&#x2F;assignments&#x2F;handson-li...</a><p>&gt;I fully recognize that there are dangers and risks to which I may be exposed by participating in Reproduction of Therac-25 accidents . The following is a description and&#x2F;or examples of significant dangers and risks associated with this activity Acute gullibility, Failure to understand April Fool&#x27;s jokes, Night terrors associated with medical radiation machines .
sho_hn4 个月前
Leveson&#x27;s fantastic Therac-25 paper is probably the most important document in the formative years of my young sweng career.<p>I still re-read it every couple of years, and it&#x27;s held up a lot better than one of my other early favorites, which was Feynman&#x27;s appendix to the Challenger report. In the sense that I still draw new thoughts and realizations from it as I re-read it with additional experience in some of the engineering and organizational disciplines it touches. Sad as it is, it&#x27;s got a little bit of everything.<p>It&#x27;s definitely got my vote for the <i>I Ching</i> of critical systems engineering.<p>Spend the time. Chances are you&#x27;ll remember it.
评论 #42798572 未加载
评论 #42799221 未加载
评论 #42799099 未加载
评论 #42809755 未加载
userbinator4 个月前
I remember reading --- and vehemently disagreeing --- with the report on the incidents, which danced around the matter but didn&#x27;t point directly at the underlying cause: excessive complexity in the software, which easily created bugs and hid them. For example, they used multiple threads and a whole OS, when a simple loop would&#x27;ve been sufficient, perhaps in a misguided attempt at trying to keep the UI &quot;responsive&quot;; there would not be any race conditions if everything ran in the same thread.<p>As Tony Hoare says: &quot;There are two ways to develop software: Make it so simple that there are obviously no bugs, or so complex that there are no obvious bugs.&quot;
评论 #42799910 未加载
评论 #42803246 未加载
评论 #42800290 未加载
at_a_remove4 个月前
At a Starbucks years ago, a woman next to me requested to plug into my USB charger, which had an open port. Since any interaction of mine with a new person was doomed to awkwardness, of course I ended up with the sadly comical three-try, two-rotation final insertion. She made a crack about Schroedinger&#x27;s USB port and I smiled, then she began to explain to me that it was a physics thing. After I replied that, yeah, that was my undergrad. It turned out to be hers as well. Then we found out that we had both gone into programming. She was doing programming in medicine, and, when prompted for further details, mentioned working on the software for one of those multi-beam radiation gizmos.<p>I mentioned Therac-25 and we were off to the races. I think we talked for about two hours on programming in high-risk situations, hers in those machines, mine in location services and routing for emergency services. That maniacal technician who irradiated that poor boy (the names escape me) was brought up. At one point we hit on the Challenger disaster. I was comforted to meet another programmer who had certain philosophies about making reliable niche software. I&#x27;m not at that level, but I think it is something to which I ought to occasionally aspire.
mrandish4 个月前
Because the linked page doesn&#x27;t include a description of what a Therac-25 is:<p>&gt; &quot;The Therac-25 is a computer-controlled radiation therapy machine produced by Atomic Energy of Canada Limited in 1982. The Therac-25 was involved in at least six accidents between 1985 and 1987, in which some patients were given massive overdoses of radiation. Because of concurrent programming errors (also known as race conditions), it sometimes gave its patients radiation doses that were hundreds of times greater than normal, resulting in death or serious injury. These accidents highlighted the dangers of software control of safety-critical systems.&quot;<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Therac-25" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Therac-25</a>
评论 #42799281 未加载
评论 #42799786 未加载
dkulchenko4 个月前
Every time I read the story of Therac-25 I feel incredibly frustrated AECL never faced real consequences or (criminal) liability for it.<p>Maybe I&#x27;m retroactively imposing modern day safety culture, but reading the timeline and history, it feels like AECL was completely negligent in waving off the issue as more and more fatalities kept piling up.<p>Can&#x27;t believe the devices weren&#x27;t pulled offline to definitively solve the issue after the first death. Instead, they basically went &quot;can&#x27;t repro, oh well&quot;.
评论 #42799034 未加载
thangalin4 个月前
From my blog[1]:<p>&quot;In 2017, Leveson revisited those lessons[2] and concluded that modern software systems still suffer from the same issues. In addition, she noted:<p>* Error prevention and detection must be included from the outset.<p>* Software designs are often unnecessarily complex.<p>* Software engineers and human factors engineers must communicate more.<p>* Blame still falls on operators rather than interface designs.<p>* Overconfidence in reusing software remains rampant.&quot;<p>[1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;dave.autonoma.ca&#x2F;blog&#x2F;2019&#x2F;06&#x2F;06&#x2F;web-of-knowledge&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;dave.autonoma.ca&#x2F;blog&#x2F;2019&#x2F;06&#x2F;06&#x2F;web-of-knowledge&#x2F;</a><p>[2]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ieeexplore.ieee.org&#x2F;document&#x2F;8102762" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ieeexplore.ieee.org&#x2F;document&#x2F;8102762</a>
评论 #42805369 未加载
mbStavola4 个月前
Recently I had to get a panoramic dental x-ray and I was making small talk with the person who was running the machine.<p>I joked that I&#x27;m always cautious about machines like this, even knowing the dosage of radiation is low, simply because of the history of software safety controls and the story of Therac-25. She hadn&#x27;t heard of it before and I gave her the gist of it, that an issue with the programming made it so it was possible to accidentally dose a patient considerably more than the intended amount (in a few different ways). It was interesting to her but I then had to pause so she could run the machine. I shut up and she did her thing.<p>Then, after a few minutes of scanning, she sucked her teeth a bit and apologized, saying she needed to run it once more. No worries, let&#x27;s get it done! She starts it again and as I&#x27;m getting scanned she explains that &quot;for whatever reason I was getting an error so I just had to restart it, this happens sometimes and I&#x27;m not really sure why.&quot; I give a little half-nervous chuckle and then the scan completes. Once I pull my head out of the machine, I <i>finally</i> get to finish my lovely Therac-25 story wherein I explain that one of the issues was... a combination of non-descriptive error codes, insufficient failsafes, and operator error resulting in patient casualties as the procedure was restarted one or more times.<p>We shared a little laugh and discussed other things, cost of living primarily. I&#x27;m still alive so I&#x27;m at least 63% sure I didn&#x27;t get megadosed or anything but its been a funny conversation to revisit now and then.
评论 #42799883 未加载
评论 #42799271 未加载
评论 #42799091 未加载
评论 #42800542 未加载
JohnBooty4 个月前
<p><pre><code> Question 4: How many rads did you receive in doing this project? </code></pre> Best question ever.
haddonist4 个月前
Well There&#x27;s Your Problem Podcast (with slides)<p>Episode 121: Therac-25 <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=7EQT1gVsE6I" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=7EQT1gVsE6I</a>
junon4 个月前
Assume from the paper this simulator does not contain the software patch that fixed it? I&#x27;d be curious to see the &quot;patch&quot; for this that would, spelled out in more modern code (not sure what the original Therac was written in).
johnwheeler4 个月前
I fully recognize that there are dangers and risks to which I may be exposed by participating in Reproduction of Therac-25 accidents . The following is a description and&#x2F;or examples of significant dangers and risks associated with this activity Acute gullibility, Failure to understand April Fool&#x27;s jokes, Night terrors associated with medical radiation machines .
TomMasz4 个月前
I remember reading about the Therac-25 when the first post-mortem explanations appeared. Those poor patients, they could feel something was wrong but were told everything was fine because the operators didn&#x27;t see anything out of the ordinary.
NegativeLatency4 个月前
Struggling to trigger either of the malfunction cases from therac.c, any tips?
评论 #42798980 未加载
评论 #42798766 未加载
评论 #42811128 未加载
fifticon4 个月前
They suggest the students should do this exercise in pairs. When doing so, the lucky partner is the one who doesn&#x27;t have to sit in front of the radiation source.
dang4 个月前
Related. Others?<p><i>The Therac-25 Incident</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=38458448">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=38458448</a> - Nov 2023 (10 comments)<p><i>Therac-25</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=37480795">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=37480795</a> - Sept 2023 (15 comments)<p><i>An Investigation of the Therac-25 Accidents (1993) [pdf]</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=34636130">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=34636130</a> - Feb 2023 (1 comment)<p><i>The Therac-25 Incident</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=26142432">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=26142432</a> - Feb 2021 (77 comments)<p><i>A Brief History Of: The Therac-25 (Short Documentary)</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=24388735">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=24388735</a> - Sept 2020 (1 comment)<p><i>The Worst Computer Bugs in History: Race conditions in Therac-25</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=23200759">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=23200759</a> - May 2020 (1 comment)<p><i>The programmer behind the Therac-25 fiasco was never found</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=21679287">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=21679287</a> - Dec 2019 (121 comments)<p><i>Worst Computer Bugs in History: Therac-25 (2017)</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=17740292">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=17740292</a> - Aug 2018 (110 comments)<p><i>Killed by a Machine: The Therac-25</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=12201147">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=12201147</a> - Aug 2016 (40 comments)<p><i>Medical Devices: The Therac-25 (1995)</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=9643054">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=9643054</a> - June 2015 (18 comments)<p><i>An Investigation of the Therac-25 Accidents (1993) [pdf]</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=8755469">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=8755469</a> - Dec 2014 (1 comment)<p><i>Therac-25</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=7257005">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=7257005</a> - Feb 2014 (77 comments)<p><i>Therac-25: When software reliability really does matter</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=1143776">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=1143776</a> - Feb 2010 (18 comments)<p><i>An Investigation of the Therac-25 Accidents (1993)</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=202940">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=202940</a> - May 2008 (2 comments)