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Google kills diversity hiring targets

159 点作者 kepler13 个月前

31 条评论

kepler13 个月前
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;6O8L5" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;6O8L5</a>
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like_any_other3 个月前
Well, they&#x27;ve already achieved diversity, haven&#x27;t they? Whites were already under-represented at Google (and at 18&#x2F;23 tech companies) back in 2017 [1]. If they&#x27;ve rolled over for anyone, it was for the Asian lobby, who is over-represented at 23&#x2F;23 of those tech companies, and now won&#x27;t be facing DEI pressures to reduce their numbers.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20250127210140&#x2F;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;informationisbeautiful.net&#x2F;visualizations&#x2F;diversity-in-tech&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20250127210140&#x2F;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;informati...</a>
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strangeloops853 个月前
Independent of whether these goals are appropriate or not, these actions (and those of so many other companies) are just so predictably craven.<p>These executive orders (and what &quot;DEIA&quot; exactly means or constitutes, legally speaking) have not been litigated or clarified yet. Is Google going to avoid interviewing anyone from a HBCU now?<p>At least Costco seems to have a logical reason for what they do and stood by it.
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xnx3 个月前
Would be great to be more resources put in at the very start of the pipeline (e.g. early childhood education). It&#x27;s very hard to &quot;solve&quot; &quot;diversity&quot; at the time of hiring when candidates have already had decades of disadvantage.
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thaumasiotes3 个月前
I was recruited through Google&#x27;s diversity program twice.<p>The first time, what that meant was that they invited their diversity candidates to a small pre-interview preparation session which, oddly enough, didn&#x27;t bother to touch on what they were looking for in interviews. I took the interviews and was informed that I&#x27;d failed them.<p>The second time, I paid for coaching from interviewing.io, and I learned what they were looking for in interviews. This was not cheap. (There are some surprises! For example, they don&#x27;t care whether you can answer their questions. If you can&#x27;t, you&#x27;re supposed to ask them how. This is not a normal testing style.) I took their interviews, and my recruiter informed me that I had passed, wished me congratulations, and told me to expect a job offer by the end of the current hiring cycle (which was about six weeks away). In the meantime, I&#x27;d have a set of &quot;team fit&quot; interviews.<p>Then, they never contacted me again, except to say that they&#x27;d realized that on second thought my interview scores were too low for them to hire me. Not a single thing was scheduled until the hiring cycle ended and they let me know that while my scores were good enough to have passed their interviews, they weren&#x27;t good enough to be hired after passing the interviews.<p>There was no obvious &quot;diversity&quot; angle to that one, but when I complained to a family friend working at Google, they looked up the recruiter and were surprised to see that she was specialized in diversity hiring.
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Quarrelsome3 个月前
When I came over to the states to go to a tech conference at a NASDAQ listed billion dollar corp that bought us, the only black people I met were either working at the hotels (90% of that staff) or living in the nearby inner city.<p>I don&#x27;t pretend to understand the USA, and maybe that conference wasn&#x27;t representative, but to me it was quite shocking that the disparity was so clearly visible. So I think its a bit of a shame they&#x27;re losing this, because from my perspective there was still a clear gap in terms of education outcomes which feed corporate and I would have liked to think these policies were helping to address that.
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p0w3n3d3 个月前
DEI is fun and games until I am the person that won&#x27;t be hired because I am not the niche to be de-discriminated. I remember coming to a Google stand on a conference, where they gave me form asking besides my email address, what is my ethnic background (strange word they used in my language, which I associated with gender etc, whatever would make me a minority) and would I mind share. I chose not to share and they even didn&#x27;t drop me a line...
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1vuio0pswjnm73 个月前
Commenters may be missing that Google, Amazon, etc., as US government contractors, are required to follow the legal requirements for all such contractors. Previously contractors were required to follow rules based on a policy set by a Johnson administration EO in the 1960&#x27;s. That policy has been replaced by a new EO. Online commenters might prefer to focus on recent changes as representative of corporate culture, management ideology, etc. instead of business judgment (as in the &quot;business judgment rule&quot; followed by the US courts), e.g., meeting the necessary legal requirements to secure&#x2F;retain government contracts.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ebglaw.com&#x2F;insights&#x2F;publications&#x2F;dei-and-affirmative-action-programs-blitzed-while-executive-order-11246-is-revoked" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ebglaw.com&#x2F;insights&#x2F;publications&#x2F;dei-and-affirma...</a>
silexia3 个月前
Diversity hiring targets is a pretty new phrase to describe an ugly old practice: racism.
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nyarlathotep_3 个月前
Probably primarily a business and cost-cutting measure (certain there&#x27;s loads of DEI-related staff; NOT DEI hires, roles that exist to foster DEI policies).<p>I&#x27;ve a prediction somewhat related to this.<p>We&#x27;ll see, in the coming year(s), a large portion of positions at the FAANG(s) being moved overseas as cost-cutting measures. Paired with the impression that LLMs reduce the need for programmers, we (domestically) will see a substantial reduction in the number of developer (and related roles) in the States.<p>From what I&#x27;ve heard&#x2F;seen wrt roles at these companies there&#x27;s a substantial imbalance in locations for hiring (huge increases in India, Mexico, Brazil, and others) and less and less in the States.
jncfhnb3 个月前
I worked on some DEI programs. The problem was mixed. Most companies (at least the ones with DEI programs) thought they had big DEI issues because minorities had worse outcomes. But if you looked hard, that wasn’t usually the case. It was merely that minorities were more represented at lower levels and lower levels had higher attrition and what not. On the whole, it tended to look like hiring, retention, and even promotions looked surprisingly equitable. That is, while it would take a long time, it did seem as if things would stop being crusty old white men at the top exclusively.<p>However there are some noteworthy qualifiers. First, the biggest thing these programs did successfully was just diversifying the entry points so that you could even begin to start conversations with people from other backgrounds. That’s huge and effective.<p>Second, and this one is more anecdata, but I never really felt the hiring pool of diverse candidates was randomly sampled at all. For all the groaning about meritocracy and white candidates getting shat on, I tended to find in my personal hiring that diverse candidates were often MUCH stronger candidates. I rarely saw unmotivated, underqualified minorities and women make it to an interview stage whereas there’s a ton of white and Asian guys that did. Getting these candidates was harder. Which is to say, without putting any intrinsic value on racial or cultural backgrounds, I do think DEI programs somehow greatly streamlined a meritocratic highlighting of talented folks from diverse backgrounds. Which is ironic because that’s often the opposite claim.<p>That is, given you are a minority applying to an advanced position, odds are you’re really strong.
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user39393823 个月前
Most of these megacorporations have no beliefs or values except their own profits and growth. Everything else is political expediency. This is just based on a lifetime of observing their behavior.
aristofun3 个月前
Isn’t it obvious that any artificial forced attempt to “balance” a very complex system from within by a primitive set of rules is gonna sooner or later fail and eventually cause even more imbalance and chaos?<p>The only way is to “naturally” help create conditions that hopefully will slowly yield. Sure there aarea many vague lines there, but at least we should be rational enough to choose the right attitude, right general approach.<p>What could be more racist and stupid then these “hiring targets”?
paxys3 个月前
All the talk about &quot;diversity&quot; in tech companies always reminds me of this Silicon Valley scene - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=Dek5HtNdIHY" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=Dek5HtNdIHY</a>. Still the perfect representation of the entire effort.
katehenshaw3 个月前
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kepler13 个月前
This is pretty much the first half of the article (until the archive.is link starts working):<p>&quot;Google is eliminating its goal of hiring more employees from historically underrepresented groups and reviewing some diversity, equity and inclusion programs, joining other tech giants rethinking their approach to DEI.<p>In an email to employees Wednesday, Google said it would no longer set hiring targets to improve representation in its workforce.<p>In 2020, amid calls for racial justice following the police killing of George Floyd, Google set a target of increasing by 30% the proportion of “leadership representation of underrepresented groups” by 2025.<p>Parent company Alphabet’s GOOGL -7.69%decrease; red down pointing triangle annual report released Wednesday omitted a sentence stating the company was “committed to making diversity, equity, and inclusion part of everything we do and to growing a workforce that is representative of the users we serve.” The sentence was in its reports from 2021 through 2024.<p>Google also said it was reviewing recent court decisions and executive orders by President Trump aimed at curbing DEI in the government and federal contractors. The company is “evaluating changes to our programs required to comply,” the email said...<p>“We’ll continue to invest in states across the U.S.—and in many countries globally—but in the future we will no longer have aspirational goals,” the email said... &quot;
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impish92083 个月前
Gift link: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.wsj.com&#x2F;tech&#x2F;google-kills-diversity-hiring-targets-04433d7c?st=jb6yom" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.wsj.com&#x2F;tech&#x2F;google-kills-diversity-hiring-targe...</a>
ilrwbwrkhv3 个月前
&quot;we will no longer have aspirational goals&quot; - google in a nutshell
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kombine3 个月前
It&#x27;s not that these diversity policies were effective at addressing the underlying issue, they looked ridiculous to someone from the outside. What is hilarious and scary at the same time, is how these global corporations, the supposed progressive forces, are reversing them in quick succession one after another one 2 weeks into Trump&#x27;s presidency.
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srid3 个月前
This was brewing from last year.<p>From their &quot;Mission First&quot; post on Apr 18, 2024 <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;blog.google&#x2F;inside-google&#x2F;company-announcements&#x2F;building-ai-future-april-2024&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;blog.google&#x2F;inside-google&#x2F;company-announcements&#x2F;buil...</a><p>&gt; “ultimately we are a workplace and our policies and expectations are clear: this is a business, and not a place to act in a way that disrupts coworkers or makes them feel unsafe, to attempt to use the company as a personal platform, or to fight over disruptive issues or debate politics.”<p>Paul Graham had predicted it back in 2020: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;x.com&#x2F;paulg&#x2F;status&#x2F;1781329523155357914" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;x.com&#x2F;paulg&#x2F;status&#x2F;1781329523155357914</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.piratewires.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;mission-accomplished" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.piratewires.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;mission-accomplished</a><p>And this was happening elsewhere too, for e.g.,<p>Microsoft: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;p5Ewk" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;p5Ewk</a><p>and<p>Meta: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.axios.com&#x2F;2025&#x2F;01&#x2F;10&#x2F;meta-dei-programs-employees-trump" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.axios.com&#x2F;2025&#x2F;01&#x2F;10&#x2F;meta-dei-programs-employees...</a> &amp; <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=42700134">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=42700134</a> ... even as early as 2022: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;world.hey.com&#x2F;dhh&#x2F;meta-goes-no-politics-at-work-and-nobody-cares-d6409209" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;world.hey.com&#x2F;dhh&#x2F;meta-goes-no-politics-at-work-and-...</a><p>For larger context, see <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.wsj.com&#x2F;business&#x2F;c-suite&#x2F;chief-diversity-officer-cdo-business-corporations-e110a82f" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.wsj.com&#x2F;business&#x2F;c-suite&#x2F;chief-diversity-officer...</a>
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moi23883 个月前
Every pro DEI argument is “no true Scotsman”.<p>Whereas in practice it’s just plain racism and discrimination.<p>I’m sure in theory it’s all very nice. Just like communism.
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kepler13 个月前
James Damore must be rolling in his grave
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nipponese3 个月前
One lesser known DEI policies that I think aligns with current conservative thinking:<p>- Parental Leave &amp; Caregiving Support: Providing paid maternity and paternity leave, flexible work arrangements, and childcare support
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coliveira3 个月前
That&#x27;s the grand bargain to escape the monopoly lawsuit. Now we&#x27;ll have another monopoly protected by Trump.
thinkingemote3 个月前
Is Microsoft next? Will they dig out and shampoo the old GitHub meritocracy rug?
TriangleEdge3 个月前
Isn&#x27;t &quot;communism = bad&quot; part of the American culture? Why are all of these private companies immediately kissing the govts ass?
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aurareturn3 个月前
If you zoom out far enough, all these companies are making business decisions - not emotional ones. They have to kiss Trump&#x27;s ring and bend the knee for Elon in order to not get destroyed. When they had DEI, it was created for business reason too - to be seen as socially just so you should buy their products. Now Google thinks it&#x27;s better for business if they fall in line with what Trump wants.
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legitster3 个月前
The complete rollover on this is kind of disheartening.<p>Were a lot of these programs a performative kabuki theatre that wasted time and money? Yes. Were companies ever going to fill their ranks with black, lesbian programmers? No.<p>On the other hand, now having worked my way up in the tech world, the idea that the C-suite decision makers are there through some sort of meritocracy is also equally laughable. These are exclusive circles, and your breeding (family, school, frat) already determines your access more than success ever will.<p>I don&#x27;t think there is anything wrong with the <i>ideal</i> of giving more types of people a chance. But it was an issue of execution, not intent.
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roomey3 个月前
Take a breath and take this from first principles...<p>People tend to be tribal. People, when interviewing and select, will tend to hire people that look like them. A white guy from a white school from a white neighbourhood is far more likely to hire another white guy because that&#x27;s what the&#x27;ve spent their whole lives surrounded by. This is justified a million ways, but what it boils down to is favouring someone who is a certain race.<p>And when tech is already full of white guys, it just means more white guys will be hired in tech... Cause maths.<p>All DEI was doing in the tech world was saying, &quot;try interview at least one woman&#x2F; black person etc&quot;. Also maybe some training on how to avoid the pitfall in an interview of just hiring someone the same as you.<p>But look around you in the office. How many women are there? How many black people? How many... Black women?!?! Yea, I thought so.<p>If you are talking about &quot;merit based&quot; then that is &quot;DEI&quot;. If you are talking about &quot;people who look and act like me&quot;, then you are racist.<p>Anyway, excluding people leads to worse outcomes. Unfortunately, it makes life harder for people on the way.
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rvz3 个月前
About time and no more easy rides or passes for anyone. Everyone equally gets the brutal Leetcode hards treatment.<p>Either you pass the threshold or you don&#x27;t. No excuses.
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sandworm1013 个月前
The loss of dei programs is bad but isn&#x27;t the big bad. The big bad comes when businesses start being forced to prove that they arent doing dei. Every hire may soon have to be examined under inverse lenses: to prove that they are not dei. Real evils will then creep back into business culture. Be under no illusions. Those evils still lurk in every back office.
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