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Firing programmers for AI is a mistake

741 点作者 frag3 个月前

138 条评论

dham3 个月前
There&#x27;s such a huge disconnect between people reading headlines and developers who are actually trying to use AI day to day in good faith. We know what it is good at and what it&#x27;s not.<p>It&#x27;s incredibly far away from doing any significant change in a mature codebase. In fact I&#x27;ve become so bearish on the technology trying to use it for this, I&#x27;m thinking there&#x27;s going to have to be some other breakthrough or something other than LLM&#x27;s. It just doesn&#x27;t feel right around the corner. Now completing small chunks of mundane code, explaining code, doing very small mundane changes. Very good at.
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nerder923 个月前
This article is entirely built on 2 big and wrong assumptions:<p>1. AI code ability will be the same as is today<p>2. Companies will replace people for AI en masse at a given moment in time<p>Of course both these assumptions are wrong, the quality of code produced by AI will improve dramatically as model evolves. And is not even just the model itself. The tooling, the Agentic capabilities and workflow will entirely change to adapt to this. (Already doing)<p>The second assumption is also wrong, intelligent companies will not layoff en masse to use AI only, they will most likely slow hiring devs because their existing enhanced devs using AI will suffice enough to their coding related needs. At the end of the day product is just one area of company development, build the complete e2e ultimate solution with 0 distribution or marketing will not help.<p>This article, in my opinion, is just doomerism storytelling for nostalgic programmers, that see programming only as some kind of magical artistic craft and AI as the villain arrived to remove all the fun from it. You can still switch off Cursor and write donut.c if you enjoy doing it.
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dragonwriter3 个月前
My opinion: tech isn&#x27;t firing programmers for AI. If is firing peogrammers because of the financial environment, and waving around AI as a fig leaf to pretend that it is not really cutting back in output.<p>When the financial environment loosens again, there’ll be a new wave of tech hiring (which is about equally likely to publicly be portrayed as either reversing the AI firing or exploiting new opportunities due to AI, neither of which will be the real fundamental driving force.)
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jvanderbot3 个月前
What evidence do we have that AI is actually replacing programmers already? The article treats messaging on this as a forgone conclusion, but I strongly suspect it&#x27;s all hype-cycle BS to cover layoffs, or a misreading of &quot;Meta pivots to AI&quot; headlines.
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pyrale3 个月前
We have fired all our programmers.<p>However, the AI is hard to work with, it expects specific wording in order to program our code as expected.<p>We have hired people with expertise in the specific language needed to transmit our specifications to the AI with more precision.
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bryukh3 个月前
&quot;Let AI replace programmers&quot; is the new &quot;Let’s outsource everything to &lt;some country&gt;.&quot; Short-term cost savings, long-term disaster.
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zoogeny3 个月前
I&#x27;m not sure why people are so sure one way or the other. I mean, we&#x27;re going to find out. Why pretend you have a crystal ball and can see the future?<p>A lot of articles like this just <i>want</i> to believe something is true and so they create an elaborate argument as to why that thing is true.<p>You can wrap yourself up in rationalizations all you want. There is a chance firing all the programmers will work. Evidence beats argument. In 5 years we&#x27;ll look back and know.<p>It is actually probably a good idea to hedge your bets either way. Use this moment to trim some fat, force your existing programmers to work in a slightly leaner environment. It doesn&#x27;t feel nice to be a programmer cut in such an environment but I can see why companies might be using this opportunity.
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bigfatkitten3 个月前
For each programmer who actually spends their time on complex design work or fixing difficult bugs, there are many more doing what amounts to clerical work. Adding a new form here, fiddling with a layout there.<p>It is the latter class who are in real danger.
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sunami-ai3 个月前
I agree with the statement in the title.<p>Using AI to write code does two things:<p>1. Everything seems to go faster at first until you have to debug it because the AI can&#x27;t seem to be able to fix the issue... It&#x27;s hard enough to debug code you wrote yourself. However, if you work with code written by others (team environment) then maybe you&#x27;re used to this, but not being able to quickly debug code you&#x27;re responsible for will shoot you in the foot.<p>2. You brain neurons in charge of code production will be naturally re-assigned for other cognitive tasks. It&#x27;s not like riding a bicycle or swimming which once learned is never forgotten. It&#x27;s more like advanced math, which if you don&#x27;t practice you can forget.<p>Short term gain; long term pain.
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guccihat3 个月前
When the AI dust settles, I wonder who will be left standing among the groups of developers, testers, scrum masters, project leaders, department managers, compliance officers, and all the other roles in IT.<p>It seems the general sentiment is that developers are in danger of being replaced entirely. I may be biased, but it seems not to be the most likely outcome in the long term. I can&#x27;t imagine how such companies will be competitive against developers who replace their boss with an AI.
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Havoc3 个月前
That’s what people said about outsourcing too. The corporate meat grinder keeps rolling forward anyway.<p>Every single department and person believes the world will stop turning without them but that’s rarely how that plays out.
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netcan3 个月前
Our ability to predict technological &quot;replacement&quot; is pretty shoddy.<p>Take banking for example.<p>ATMs are literally called &quot;teller machines.&quot; Internet banking is a way of &quot;automating banking.&quot;<p>Besides those, every administrative aspect of banking went from paper to computer.<p>Do banks employ fewer people? Is it a smaller industry? No. Banks grew steadily over these decades.<p>It&#x27;s actually shocking how little network enabled PCs impacted administrative employment. Universities, for example, employ far more administrative staff than they did before PC automated many of their tasks.<p>At one point (during and after dotcom), PayPal and suchlike were threatening to &quot;<i>turn billion dollar businesses into million dollar businesses.</i>&quot; Reality went in the opposite direction.<p>We need to stop analogizing everything in the economy to manufacturing. Manufacturing is unique in its long term tendency to efficiency.other industries don&#x27;t work that way.
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groos3 个月前
A good analogy from not-so-distant past is the outsourcing wave that swept the tech industry. Shareholders everywhere were salivating at the money they would make by hiring programmers in India at 1&#x2F;10 the cost while keeping their profits. Those of us who have been in the industry a while all saw how that went. I think this new wave wave will go roughly similarly. Eventually, companies will realize that to keep their edge, they need humans with creativity while &quot;AI&quot; will be one more tool in the bag. In the meantime, a lot of hurt will happen due to greed.
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ponector3 个月前
&gt;&gt;companies aren’t investing in junior developers<p>It was a case before AI as well.<p>Overall it reads the same as &quot;Twitter will be destroyed by mass layoffs&quot;. But it is still online
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qoez3 个月前
Some companies will try to fire as many programmers as possible and will end up struggling bc they have no moats against other companies with access to the same AI, or will hit some kind of AI saturation usefulness threshold. Other companies will figure out a smart hybrid to utilize existing talent and those are probably the ones that will thrive among the competition.
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osigurdson3 个月前
It seems that a lot of companies are skating where they hope the puck to go instead of hedging their bets for an uncertain future. Personally I would at least wait until the big AI players fire everyone before doing the same.
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cromulent3 个月前
LLMs are good at producing plausible statements and responses that radiate awareness, consideration, balance, and at least superficial knowledge of the technology in question. Even if they are non-committal, indecisive, or even inaccurate.<p>In other words, they are very economical replacements for middle managers. Have at it.
swiftcoder3 个月前
Every generation sees a new technology that old timers loudly worry &quot;will destroy programming as a profession&quot;.<p>I&#x27;m old enough to remember when that new and destructive technology was Java, and the greybeards were all heavily invested in inline assembly as an essential skill of the serious programmer.<p>The exact same 3 steps in the article happened about a decade ago during the &quot;javascript bootcamp&quot; craze, and while the web stack does grow ever more deeply abstracted, things do seem to keep on trucking along...
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iainctduncan3 个月前
I work in tech diligence. This means the companies I talk to <i>cannot lie or refuse to answer a question</i> (at risk of deals failing through and being sued to obvilion). Which means we get the hear the <i>real</i> effects of tech debt all time. I call it the silent killer. Tech debt paralyzes companies all the time, but nobody hears about it because there&#x27;s zero advantage to the companies in sharing that info. I&#x27;m constantly gobsmacked by how many companies are stuck on way past EOL libraries because of bad architecture decisions. Or can&#x27;t deal with heinous noisy neighbour issues without spending through the nose on AWS because of bad architecture decisions. Or are spending the farm to rewrite part of the stack that can&#x27;t perform well enough to land enterprise clients, but the rewrite is going to potentially bankrupt the company... because of bad architecture decisions. This shit happens ALL THE TIME. Even to very big companies!<p>The tech debt situation is going to become so, so much worse. My guess is there will be a whole lot of &quot;dead by year five&quot; companies built on AI.
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larve3 个月前
This is missing the fact that budding programmers will also embrace these technologies, in order to get stuff done and working and fulfill their curiosity. They will in fact grow up to be much more &quot;AI native&quot; than current more senior programmers, except that they are turbocharging their exploration and learning by having, well, a full team of AI programmers at their disposal.<p>I see it like when I came of age in the 90ies, with my first laptop and linux, confronted with the older generation that grew up on punchcards or expensive shared systems. They were advocating for really taking time to write your program out on paper or architecting it up front, while I was of the &quot;YOLOOOO, I&#x27;ll hack on it until it compiles&quot; persuasion. Did it keep me from learning the fundamentals, become a solid engineer? No. In fact, the &quot;hack on it until it compiles&quot; became a pillar of today&#x27;s engineering: TDD, CI&#x2F;CD, etc...<p>It&#x27;s up to us to find the right workflows for both mentoring &#x2F; teaching and for solid engineering, with this new, imo paradigm-changing technology.
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r33b333 个月前
Real talk.<p>We are a small theme of people running an online game app.<p>We use XCode swift language and python for server.<p>We need to develop a website where this game can be played live and implement many features.<p>Current AIs are smart. There is DeepSeek R-1.<p>Has anyone actually figured out how to implement this in coding environment and get it to actually CORRECTLY implement the tickets and features without messing everything up?<p>How can it know if the feature actually works in the game? It can&#x27;t test it, right?<p>How can it take into account the ENTIRE database of code with folders and directories and files and all that stuff + resources uploaded?<p>I don&#x27;t think even DeepSeek can do that.<p>Which tool is best as of now?
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jdmoreira3 个月前
If there will be actual AGI (or super intelligence), none of these arguments hold. The machines will just be better than any programmer money can buy.<p>Of course at that point every knowledge worker is probably unemployable anyway.
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EZ-E3 个月前
Firing developers to replace by AI, how does that realistically work?<p>Okay I fired half of our engineers. Now what? I hire non engineers to use AI to randomly paste code around hoping for the best? What if the AI makes the wrong assumptions about the requirement input by the non technical team, introducing subtle mistakes? What if I have an error and AI, as it often does, circles around not managing to find the proper fix?<p>I&#x27;m not an engineer anymore but I&#x27;m still confident in dev jobs prospects. If anything AI empowers to write more code, faster, and with more code running live eventually there are more products to maintain, more companies launched and you need more engineers.
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skeeter20203 个月前
How can this opion piece miss the big thing though? Even if it&#x27;s an accurate prediction that will be someone else&#x27;s problem. My last three companies have been Publicly traded, Private Equity, VC and PE. The timelines for decision makers in any of these scenarios maxes out around 4 years, and for some is less than a year. They&#x27;re not shooting themselves in the foot, rather handicaping the business and moving on. The ones who time it right will have an extra-big payday, while the ones who do poorly will buy all these duds. Meanwhile the vast majority lose either way.
bloomingkales3 个月前
I&#x27;m sure there is a formal proof someone can flesh out.<p>- Half assed developer can construct a functional program with AI prompts.<p>- Deployed at scale for profit<p>- Many considerations were not considered due to lack of expertise (security, for example)<p>- Bad things happen for users.<p>I have at least two or three ideas that I&#x27;ve canned for now because it&#x27;s just not safe for users (AI apps of that type require a lot of safety considerations). For example, you cannot create a collaborative AI app without considering how users can pollute the database with unsafe content (moderation).<p>I&#x27;m concerned a lot of people in this world are not being as cautious.
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entropyneur3 个月前
Is that actually a thing? Anybody here being replaced with AI? I haven&#x27;t observed any such trends around me and it&#x27;s especially hard to imagine that happening in &quot;tech&quot; (the software industry). At this stage of AI development of course - if things continue at this pace anything is possible.
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gradientsrneat3 个月前
LLMs are not programming tools. They are general-purpose pattern matchers and stereotype generators. They lack the determinism or epistemological guarantees of a compiler, an IDE, a linter, or a manual. They can best be described as a supplement to a search engine.
just-another-se3 个月前
Though I disagree to most of things said here, I do agree that the new fleet of software engineers won&#x27;t be that technically adapt. But what if they don&#x27;t need to? Like how most programmers today don&#x27;t need to know the machine level instructions to build something useful.<p>I feel there will be a paradgym shift about what programming would be altogether. I think, programmers will more be like artists, painters who would conceptualize an idea and communicate those ideas to AI to implement (not end to end though; in bits and pieces, we&#x27;d still need engineers to fit these bits and peices together - think of a new programming language but instead of syntax, there will be natural language prompting).<p>I&#x27;ve tried to pen down this exact thoughts here: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;suyogdahal.com.np&#x2F;posts&#x2F;engineering-hacking-and-ai&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;suyogdahal.com.np&#x2F;posts&#x2F;engineering-hacking-and-ai&#x2F;</a>
tomrod3 个月前
When an organization actively swaps out labor for capital, expecting deep savings and dramatic ROI, instead of incrementally improving processes, they deserve the failure coming. Change management and modernization are actually meaningful, despite the derision immature organizations show towards the processes.
pydry3 个月前
The thing that is going to lead to programmers being laid off and fired all over has and will continue to be market consolidation in the tech industry. The auto industry did the same thing in the 1950s which destroyed detroit.<p>Market consolidation allows big tech to remain competitive even after the quality of software has been turned into shit by offshoring and multiple rounds of wage compression&#x2F;layoffs. Eventually all software will end up like JIRA or SAP but you won&#x27;t have much choice but to deal with it because the competition will be stifled.<p>AI is actually probably having a very positive effect on hiring that is offsetting this effect. The reason they love using it as a scapegoat is that you can&#x27;t fight the inevitable march of technological progress whereas you absolutely CAN break up big tech.
norseboar3 个月前
Is there actually an epidemic of firing programmers for AI? Based on the companies&#x2F;people I know, I wouldn&#x27;t have thought so.<p>I&#x27;ve heard of many companies encouraging their engineers to use LLM-backed tools like Cursor or just Copilot, a (small!) number that have made these kinds of tools mandatory (what &quot;mandatory&quot; means is unclear), and many companies laying people off because money is tight.<p>But I haven&#x27;t heard of <i>anybody</i> who was laid off b&#x2F;c the other engineers were so much more productive w&#x2F; AI that they decided to downsize the team, let alone replace a team entirely.<p>Is this just my bubble? Mostly Bay Area companies, mostly in the small-to-mid range w&#x2F; a couple FAANG.
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jjallen3 个月前
I&#x27;ll just say that AI for coding has been amazingly helpful for finding bugs and thinking things through and improving things like long functions and simplifying code.<p>But it can absolutely not replace entire programmers at this point, and it&#x27;s a long way of being able to say create, tweak, build and deploy entire apps.<p>That said this could totally change in the next handful of years, and I think if someone worked just on creating a purely JS&#x2F;React website at this point you could build something that does this. Or at least I think that I could build this. Where the user sort of talks to the AI and describes changes and they eventually get done. Or if not we are approaching that point.
batuhandumani3 个月前
Such writings, articles, and sayings remind me of the Luddite movement. Unfortunately, preventing what is to come is not within our control. By fighting against windmills, one only bends the spear in hand. The Zeitgeist indicates that this will happen soon or in the near future. Even though developers are intelligent, hardworking, and good at their jobs, they will always be lacking and helpless in some way against these computational monsters that are extremely efficient and have access to a vast amount of information. Therefore, instead of such views, it is necessary to focus on the following more important concept: So, what will happen next?
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NicuCalcea3 个月前
Workers in various industries have pled for their jobs and programmers said &quot;no, my code can replace you&quot;. Now that automation is coming for them, it&#x27;s suddenly &quot;the dumbest mistake&quot;.<p>Tech has &quot;disrupted&quot; many industries, leaving some better, but many worse. Now that &quot;disruption&quot; is pointed inwards.<p>Programmers will have to adapt to the new market conditions like everyone else. There will either be fewer jobs to go around (like what happened to assembly line workers), or they will have to switch to doing other tasks that are not as easy to replace yet (like bank tellers).
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tete3 个月前
In my experience the majority of people believing in AI replacing people are people who are horrible in their jobs and who mostly BS their way through, which is the major skill that LLMs are really good at: Hallucinating with confidence.<p>Can be devs, can be managers, can be the board.<p>And hey, if LLMs and other &quot;AI&quot; ever do a better job at something valuable, I think that has the potential to lead to a bright future.<p>Currently the biggest risk is someone using LLMs to do something actually critical.<p>Also waiting for the first contract negotiations done with AI summaries to blow up into someone&#x27;s face.
CM303 个月前
Generally I agree with the article, and I do feel that trying to replace everyone with AI will backfire in various ways. Lots of big companes will find that out the hard way, especially in the tech industry and other more regulated fields like medicine and finance.<p>But at the same time, it&#x27;s also worth noting that (somewhat sadly) there are plenty of jobs and companies where an AI created solution could be just what they need, even at this stage in its development. Lots of companies who need sites too complex for Squarespace but too simple for a fully engineered custom solution. The kind who&#x27;d use WordPress plugins or small agencies to build out simple CRUD systems.<p>AI could absolutely annihilate that sort of work there and then. If you need a simple PHP or React based system and you don&#x27;t need anything remotely complex functionality wise, even something like ChatGPT can build it out in about 20 minutes without many extra fixes needed.<p>Of course, that leads to the problems mentioned in the article again, since a lot of people get into programming&#x2F;engineering through those sorts of companies and roles. AI may not make the folks at Alphabet or Meta obsolete at the moment (or even be a good fit for the kind of work many large tech companies do), but it could replace whole teams at small and medium sized organisations that don&#x27;t need anything complex.
Frieren3 个月前
Many people are missing the point. The strategy for AI usage is not a long-term strategy to make the world more productive. If companies can save a buck this year, companies will do it. Period.<p>The average manager has short-term goals that needs to fulfill, and if they can use AI to fulfill them they will do it, future be damned.<p>To reign in on long-term consequences has always been part of government and regulations. So, this kind of articles are useful but should be directed to elected officials and not the industry itself.<p>Finally, what programmers need is what all workers need. Unionization, collective bargaining, social safety nets, etc. It will protect programmers from swings in the job market as it will do it for everybody else that needs a job to make ends meet.
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liampulles3 个月前
The strange thing is that AI tools would be used a lot more if they weren&#x27;t being positioned as an alpha stage for AGI. There are things that LLMs are genuinely useful for, but they seem to get used in these large scale agent style tools which regularly fail and are thus not used very widely. Give me some smaller focused tools with high accuracy and everyone wins.
WaitWaitWha3 个月前
&quot;What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.&quot; - King Solomon<p>Litter, palanquin, and sedan chair carriers were fired.<p>Oarsmen were fired.<p>Horses were fired.<p>. . . [time] . . .<p>COBOL programmers where fired.<p>and, so on.<p>What was the expectation; that programmers will be forever? Lest we forget, barely a century ago, programmers started to push out a large swath of non-programmers.<p>The more important question is what roles will push out whatever roles AI&#x2F;LLMs create.
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gitprolinux3 个月前
A problem is the group think of programmers. Many of them view themselves as investors as a side track instead of a union shop worker because there are so few union employers. Their thinking being to maximize revenue for owners and shareholders during and from software development efforts, services, and software products created. Almost every other industry that there&#x27;s money has sensibly created AI limitations from unions and trade groups, from Hollywood strikes, entry level knowledge requirements from lawyers and judges preventing AI generated research and briefs, and construction workers and shipyard unions preventing automated and AI machinery such as AI cranes cargo and other AI automation of logistics. Programmers seem to get a new trend software assistant every few years and now AI, then the first thing is the programmer group think their investors thinking to recommend attrition of the non 10x, elite, non-coding high wizards, instead of more jobs the merrier from an economic perspective.
netcan3 个月前
So... to discuss this for real we should first admit how things look below the super-premium level.<p>Software engineering at Stripe, R&amp;D at Meta and such... these are one end of a spectrum.<p>At the middle of the spectrum is a team spending 6 years on a bullshit &quot;cloud platform strategy&quot; for a 90s UI that monitors equipment at a factory and produces reports required for compliance.<p>A lot of these struggle to get anything at all done.
intrasight3 个月前
Firing programmers for using AI? I do see people asking on social media how to filter out hire candidates that are using AI in interviews.<p>But if they had meant replacing programmers with AI (bad title), I&#x27;m much more concerned about replacing non-programmers with AI. It&#x27;s gonna happen on a huge scale, and we don&#x27;t yet have a regulatory regime to protect labor from capital.
karaterobot3 个月前
&gt; The result? We’ll have a whole wave of programmers who are more like AI operators than real engineers.<p>I was a developer for over a decade, and pretty much what I did day-to-day was plumb together existing front end libraries, and write a little bit of job-specific code that today&#x27;s LLMs could certainly have helped me with, if they&#x27;d existed at the time. I agree that the really complicated stuff can&#x27;t yet be done by AI, but how sure are we that that&#x27;ll always be true? And the idea that a mediocre programmer can&#x27;t debug code written by another entity is also false, I did it all the time. In any case, I don&#x27;t resonate with the idea that the bottom 90% of programmers are doing important, novel, challenging programming that only a special genius can do. They paid us $180k a year to download NPM packages because they didn&#x27;t have AI. Now they have AI, and the future is uncertain with respect to just how high programmers will be flying ten years from now.
stpedgwdgfhgdd3 个月前
Yesterday, using Aider and an openai model, forgot which one it picks by default; i asked it to check some Go code for consistency. It made a few changes, some ok, but also some that just did not compile. (The model did not understand the local scoping of vars in an if-then clause)<p>It is just not reliable enough for mainstream Enterprise development. Nice for a new snake game….
scoutt3 个月前
What I see when producing code with AI (C&#x2F;C++, Qt) is that often it gives output for different versions of a given library. It&#x27;s like it can&#x27;t understand (or doesn&#x27;t know) that a given function is now obsolete and needs to use another method. Sometimes it can be corrected.<p>I think there will be a point in which humans will no longer be motivated to produce enough material for the AI to update. Like, why would I write&#x2F;shot a tutorial or ask&#x2F;answer a question in a forum if people are now going directly to ask to some AI?<p>And since AI is being fed with human knowledge at the moment, I think the quantity of good material out there (that was used so far for training) is going to slow down. So the AI will need to wait for some repos to be populated&#x2F;updated to understand the changes. Or it will have to read the new documentation (if any), or understand the changes from code (if any).<p>All this if it wasn&#x27;t the AI to introduce the changes itself.
ambyra3 个月前
It&#x27;s a meme at this point. People who don&#x27;t know anything about programming (lex fridman): &quot;It&#x27;s revolutionary. People with no programming skills can create entire apps.&quot; People who program for a living: &quot;It can reproduce variants of code that have been implemented already 1000s of times, and... nothing else&quot;.
delichon3 个月前
I&#x27;ve been programming full time with an LLM in an IDE for the last two weeks, and it&#x27;s a game changer for me at the end of my career. I&#x27;m in future shock. I suddenly can barely live without it.<p>But I&#x27;m not fearful for my job, yet. It&#x27;s amazingly better, and much worse than a junior dev. There are certain instructions, however simple, that just do not penetrate. It gets certain things right 98% of the time, which make me stop looking for the other 2% of the time where it absolutely sabotages the code with breaking changes. It is utterly without hesitation in defeating the entire purpose of the application in order to simplify a line of code. And yet, it can do so much simple stuff so fast and well, and it can be so informative about ridiculously obscure critical details.<p>I have most of those faults too, just fewer enough to be worth my paycheck for a few more AI generations.
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9999000009993 个月前
I have to disagree with this article. Companies as is, particularly larger companies have a lot of fluff. People who do about three or four hours of work a week, and effectively just sit around so senior management can claim they have so many people working on such and such project.<p>With AI, you no longer need those employees to justify your high valuations. You don&#x27;t need as many juniors. The party is over tell the rest of the crew. I wouldn&#x27;t advise anyone to get into tech right now. I know personally my wages have been stagnant for about 5 years. I still make fantastic money, and it&#x27;s significantly more than the average American income, but my hopes and dreams of hitting 300 or 400k total comp in retiring by 40 are gone.<p>Instead I&#x27;ve more or less accepted I&#x27;m going to have to keep working my middle class job, and I might not even retiring till my &#x27;50s! Tragic.
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InDubioProRubio3 个月前
Its a opportunity. Programmers contain internal architecture information. If they leak - and you collect the full set, you can reconstruct a similar product fresh from scratch for cheap- and then take over the business of a failing behemoth with ai-rot.<p>The eternal death-wish to cut the coding dependency murders yet another set of companies. So many where there before- Outsourcing, UML, node-based programming, no-codes in all variations and colours. Generations of managers have marched into this abyss and none-came back alive, the skulls of the ego-dream of &quot;only business management is irreplaceable crunching beneath the boots&quot; trying to cut the knowledge worker dependency out of the equation. And deep down, they feel the tingle of things going wrong- even now.
InDubioProRubio3 个月前
Everything that is of low value. And its okay. If it is not useful to humanity, it should decay over time and fade away. Low value propositions should be loaded with parasitic computation, that burdens it with costs until it collapses and allows new growth to replace the old system.
mola3 个月前
I believe regardless of the validity for the AI can replace programmers now narrative, we will see big co squeezing the labor force and padding the companies bottom line and their pocket.<p>The fact the narrative is false will be the problem of the one who replaces these CEOs, and us workers
gip3 个月前
I think that some engineers will still be needed to maintain old codebases for a while yes.<p>But it&#x27;s pretty clear that the codebases of tomorrow will be leaner and mostly implemented by AI, starting with apps (web, mobile,...). It will take more time for scaling backends.<p>So my bet is that the need for software engineering will follow what happened for stock brokers. The ones with basic to average skills will disappear, automated away (it has already happened in some teams at my last job). Above average engineers will still be employed my comp will eventually go down. And there will be a small class of expert &#x2F; smartest &#x2F; most connected engineers will see their comp go up and up.<p>It is not the future we want but I think it what is most likely to happen.
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aurizon3 个月前
I have an image of 10,000 monkeys + typewriter + time = Shakespeare... Of course, these typed pages would engender a paper shortage. So the same 10,000 LLM&#x27;s will create a similar amount of &#x27;monkeyware&#x27; - I can see monkey testers roaming through this chaff for useable gems to be incorporated into a structure operated by humans (our current coder base) to engineer into complex packages?. Will this employ the human crews and allow a greater level of productivity? Look at Win11 = a huge mass full of flaws&#x2F;errors (found daily). In general increased productivity has worked to increase GDP - will this continue? or will we be over run by smarter monkeys?
ChrisMarshallNY3 个月前
Well, what will happen, is that programmers will become experts at prompt engineering, which will become a real discipline (remember when “software engineering” was a weird niche?).<p>They will blow away the companies that rely on “seat of the pants,” undisciplined prompting.<p>I’m someone that started on Machine Language, and now programs in high-level languages. I remember when we couldn’t imagine programming without IRQs and accumulators.<p>As always, ML will become another tool for multiplying the capabilities of humans (not replacing them).<p>CEOs have been dreaming for decades about firing all their employees, and replacing them with some kind of automation.<p>The ones that succeed, are the ones that “embrace the suck,” so to speak, and figure out how to combine humans with technology.
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aaroninsf3 个月前
I&#x27;d like to suggest caution wrt a sentiment in this thread, that actual phase change in the industry i.e. readers here losing their jobs and job prospectcs, &quot;doesn&#x27;t feel right around the corner.&quot;<p>In specific, most of you are familiar with human cognitive error when reasoning with non-linearities.<p>I&#x27;m going to assert and would cheerfully put money behind the prospect that this is exactly one of the domains within which nonlinear behavior is most evident and hence our intuitions are most wrong.<p>Could be a year, could be a few, but we&#x27;re going to hit the 80% case being covered <i>just find thank you</i> by run of the mill automated tools, and then press on into asymptote.
usixk3 个月前
Agreed - AI agents are simply a form of outsourcing and companies that go all in on that premise will get bonked hard.<p>Getting into cyber security might be a gold mine in spite of all the AI generated code that is going to be churned out in this transition period.
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pipeline_peak3 个月前
AI will only raise the bar for the expected outcome of future programmers. It&#x27;s just automated pair programming really.<p>The argument: &quot;The New Generation of Programmers Will Be Less Prepared&quot; is too cynical. Most of us aren&#x27;t writing algorithms anyway, programmers may, but not Software Engineers which I really think the author is referring to.<p>Core libraries make it so SWE&#x27;s don&#x27;t have to write linked lists. Did that make our generation &quot;less prepared&quot; or give us the opportunity to focus our time on what really matters, like delivering products.
demircancelebi3 个月前
The post eerily sounds like it is written by the jailbreaked version of Gemini
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arscan3 个月前
What are these fired programmers going to do? Disappear? They’ll build stuff, using the same plus-up AI tooling that enabled their old boss to fire them. So guess what, their old boss just traded employees for competitors. Congrats, I guess?<p>Zuck declaring that he plans on dropping programmer head-count substantially, to me indicates that they’ll have a much smaller technological moat in the future, and they won’t be paying off programmers to not build competing products anymore. I’m not sure he should be excited about that.
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biohcacker843 个月前
Copilot to me is a multiplier, just like compilers and GUI editors and languages above machine language.<p>And possibly the biggest multiplier. But anything times zero is zero. Someone who does not understand the code Copilot writes is too dangerous to do anything.<p>But I worry what Copilot will do to future developers.<p>And knowing what universally available spell checking has done to me, destroyed my ability to spell correctly without it, I even worry how Copilot might deskill me over the coming years.
madrox3 个月前
I think anyone who is afraid of AI destroying our field just has to look at the history of DevOps. That was a massive shift in systems engineering and how production is maintained. It changed how people did their jobs, required people to learn new skills, and leaders to change how they thought about the business.<p>AI is going to change a lot about software, but AI code tools are coming for SWEs the way Kubernetes came for DevOps. AI completely replacing the job function is unsubstantiated.
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nickip3 个月前
My pessimistic take on it is in the future code will closer to AI where its just a blackbox where inputs go in and outputs come out. There will be no architecture, clean code, design principles. You will just have a product manager who bangs on a LLM till the ball of wax conforms to what they want at that time. As long as it meets their current KPI security be dammed. If they can get X done with as little effort as possible and data leaks so be it. They will get a fine (maybe?) and move on.
drusha3 个月前
We are already seeing how the speed of development plays a more important role than the quality of the software product (for example, the use of Electron in the most popular software). Software will become shittier but people will continue to use it. So LLM&#x27;s will become just another abstraction level in modern programming, like JS frameworks. No company will regret firing real programmers because LLMs will be cheaper and end users don&#x27;t care about performance.
fred_is_fred3 个月前
What I&#x27;ve seen is less &quot;let&#x27;s fire 1000 people and replace with AI&quot; but more &quot;let&#x27;s not hire for 2 years and see what happens as AI develops&quot;.
arrowsmith3 个月前
Did ChatGPT write this article? The writing style reeks of it.
bradley133 个月前
There is a lot of demand for crap code (quick&#x27;n&#x27;dirty apps, websites, web services, etc.). Look at the apps for a lot of IoT devices: it&#x27;s mostly boilerplate, kinda-sorta works, and obviously has been produced by programmers of...limited skill.<p>AI may well be able to take over a lot of that coding, or at least increase the productivity of the semi-competent (thus reducing the number of such jobs available).
throwaway77833 个月前
It has its uses, but often fail at seemingly simple things.<p>The other day,i couldn&#x27;t get Claude to generate an HTML page, with a logo on the top left, no matter how I prompted.
antirez3 个月前
You can substitute AI with &quot;Some Javascript Framework&quot; and the subtitles still apply very well. Yet nobody was particularly concerned about that.
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klik993 个月前
Honestly show junior programmers a little more respect. It&#x27;s such an old person thing to say they&#x27;re going to all become prompt engineers or similar. Why does the old always look at the young and claim they&#x27;re all pulled by the tides of the zeitgeist and not thinking human beings who have their own opinions about stuff. Many smart people have a contrarian streak and won&#x27;t just dive into AI tools wholesale. Honestly a lot of the comments here are at the level of critique as those facebook memes of crowd of people with iphones for faces.<p>Most people have ALWAYS taken the easy road and don&#x27;t become the best programmers. AI is just the latest tool for lazier people or people who tend towards laziness. We will continue to have new good programmers, and the number of good programmers will continue to be not enough. None of that is not caused by AI. I&#x27;m far from an AI advocate, but it will, someday, make the most boring parts of programming less tedious and be able to put &quot;glue&quot; kind of code in non-professional hands.
EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK3 个月前
I remember very uplifted talk here a few years ago about firing truck and taxi drivers for AI. Turned out, programmers are easier to replace :)
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insane_dreamer3 个月前
I think a more interesting question is what the impact will be on the next generation looking at CS&#x2F;SWE as a potential profession. It&#x27;s been considered a pretty &quot;safe&quot; profession for a long time now. That will change over the next 10 years. Will parents advise their kids to avoid CS because the job market will be so much smaller in 10 years&#x27; time?
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p0w3n3d3 个月前
<p><pre><code> Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic ~ Arthur C. Clarke </code></pre> People who make decisions got bamboozled by the ads and marketing of AI companies. They failed to detect a lack of intelligence and got deceived, that they have magical golems for a fraction of the price but eventually, they will get caught with their pants down.
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elif3 个月前
You don&#x27;t fire developers and replace them with AI. This trope is often repeated and causing people to miss the actual picture of what&#x27;s going on.<p>You use AI to disrupt a market, and that market forces the startup employing the devs to go bankrupt.<p>It&#x27;s not a &quot;this quarter we made a decision&quot; thing.<p>It&#x27;s a thing that&#x27;s happening right now all over the place and snowballing.
Retr0id3 个月前
I don&#x27;t have anything against this style of writing in particular, but it&#x27;s a shame it makes me assume it was written by an LLM
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siliconc0w3 个月前
It&#x27;s already pretty hard to find engineers that can actually go deep on problems. I predict this will get even worst with AI.
goosejuice3 个月前
An agent would be able to replace sales, marketing, customer success, middle management and project managers much better and earlier than any developer of a software company.<p>Nocode and Shopify-like consolidation are&#x2F;have been much bigger threats imo. These large orgs are just trimming fat that they would have trimmed anyways.<p>But hell what do I know. Probably nothing :)
clbrmbr3 个月前
&gt; the real winners in all this: the programmers who saw the chaos coming and refused to play along. The ones who […] went deep into systems programming, AI interpretability, or high-performance computing. These are the people who actually understand technology at a level no AI can replicate.<p>Is there room for Interpretability outside of major ai labs?
aitchnyu3 个月前
Tangential, does AI pick up new knowledge of new tools? AI helped me write much better bash since there is tons of content by volunteers and less across-country animosity. Svelte and Fastapi were made&#x2F;popularized this decade and people dont want to help their AI&#x2F;offshore replacements with content. Will current AI get good at them?
EternalFury3 个月前
I have been doing this for 30 years now. The software industry is all about selling variations of the same stuff over and over and over. But in the end, the more software there is out there, the more software is needed. AI might take it over and handle it all, but at some point, it would be cruel to make humans do it.
newAccount20253 个月前
One major critique: why do we think junior programmers really learn best from the grizzled veterans? AI coaches can give feedback on what someone is actually seeing and doing, and can be available 24x7. I suspect this can enable the juniors of the future to have a much faster rise to mastery.
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dwheeler3 个月前
Today AI can generate code. Sometimes it&#x27;s even correct.<p>AI is a useful <i>aid</i> to software developers, but it requires developers to know what they&#x27;re doing. We need developers to know more, not less, so they can review AI-generated code, fix it when it&#x27;s wrong, etc.
jarsin3 个月前
There&#x27;s also the issue of a company doesn&#x27;t own the copyright to a codebase generated primarily through prompts.<p>So anyone can copy it and reproduce it anywhere. Get paid to prompt ai by a company. Take all code home with you. Then when your tired of them use same code to undercut them.
megablast3 个月前
I have been able to program stuff using AI that I could not do before. I never managed 3d before, but can now do advanced 3d stuff. I wrote an Apple watch application in a few hours instead of the week it took me before, in swift a language I have never used before.
meristohm3 个月前
Follow the money, all the way down to Mother Earth; which boats are lifted most, and at what cost?
cjoshi663 个月前
Knowing the difference between programmers able to generate AI code vs those who can actually explain it matters. If orgs can do that, then firing programmers should be fine. If they can&#x27;t, things might get ugly for <i>some</i> but not <i>all</i>.
penjelly3 个月前
I&#x27;ve switched sides on this issue. I do think LLMs will reduce headcount across tech. Smaller teams will take on more features and less code will be written by hand. It&#x27;ll be easier to run a startup, freelance or experiment with projects.
Pooge3 个月前
As a software engineer with about 4 years of experience, what can I do to avoid being left behind?<p>The author mentions &quot;systems programming&quot; and &quot;high-performance computing&quot;. Do you have any resources for that (whether it be books, videos, courses)?
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booleandilemma3 个月前
I&#x27;m hoping that developers who have entered management positions will be able to talk their fellow managers out of this. I can understand if some non-technical MBA bozo doesn&#x27;t understand, but former developers must see through the hype.
nritchie3 个月前
It&#x27;s been noted that LLM&#x27;s output quality decays as they ingest more LLM generated content in their training. Will the same happen for LLM generated code as more and more of the code on Github is generated by LLMs? What then?
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usrbinbash3 个月前
Clicked on the Website. Greeted by the message: &quot;Something has gone terribly wrong&quot;. It did load correctly at the second attempt, but I have to admit...well played with raising the dramatic effect webserver, well played ;-)
Workaccount23 个月前
Programmers are not going to go away. But the lavish salaries, benefits packages, and generous work&#x2F;life balances probably will.<p>I envision software engineering ending up in the same pit of mediocrity as all the other engineering disciplines.
lofaszvanitt3 个月前
Time to wake up and think in terms of 10-20 years ahead. Everyone around NVIDIA dies out... anyone with GPU compute ideas just cannot succeed... 3Dfx full of saboteurs that hinder their progress.<p>Open source takes away the livelihood of programmers and gives it to moneymen for free. They used open source to train AI models. Programmers got back a few stars and a pat in the back. And some recognition, but mostly nothing. All this while big corps use their work without compensation. There is zero compensation options for open source programmers on github. Somehow it&#x27;s left out.<p>Same bullshit comes up again and again in different forms. Like your ideas worth nothing blablabla. Suuure, but moneymen usually have zero ideas and they like to expropriate others&#x27; ideas, FOR FREE. While naive people give away their ideas and work for free, the other side gives back nooothiiiing.<p>It&#x27;s already too late.<p>So programmers and other areas that will be aiified in the coming decades will be slowly going extinct. AI is a skill appropriation device that in the long term will make people useless, so they don&#x27;t need an artist, a musician etc. They will just need a capable AI to create whatever they want, without the hassle of the human element. It&#x27;s the ultimate control tool to make people SLAVES.<p>Hope I&#x27;m wrong.
Aeolun3 个月前
The same reason that outsourcing all your telecom infra to China is a bad idea.
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m3kw93 个月前
It will destroy your own company, initially but if the AI is proven to do it better than humans, a lot of them will be converted into AI assistants to guide the AI you’d still need to know programming
gitgud3 个月前
&gt; <i>The next generation of programmers will grow up expecting AI to do the hard parts for them.</i><p>This is the opposite of what I’ve seen. AI does the easy parts, only the hard parts are left…
tobyhinloopen3 个月前
I think AI will thrive in low-code systems, not by writing Javascript.
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tippytippytango3 个月前
Senior devs have a decade long reinforcement learning loop with the marketplace. That will be a massive advantage until they start RL on agents against the same environment.
penetrarthur3 个月前
There is only one word worse than &quot;programmer&quot; and it&#x27;s &quot;coder&quot;.<p>If your software developers do nothing but write text in VS Code, you might as well replace them with AI.
seletskiy3 个月前
I would say that AI is not to blame here. It just accelerated existing process, but didn&#x27;t initiate it. We (as a society) started to value quantity over quality some time ago, and, apparently, no-one care enough to change it.<p>Why tighten the bolts on the airplane&#x27;s door yourself if you can just outsource it somewhere cheaper (see Boeing crisis)?<p>Why design and test hundreds of physical and easy-to-use knobs in the car if you can just plug a touchscreen (see Tesla)?<p>Why write a couple of lines of code if you can just include an `is-odd` library (see bloated npm ecosystem)?<p>Why figure out how to solve a problem on your own if you can just copy-paste answer from somewhere else (see StackOverflow)?<p>Why invest time and effort into making a good TV if you can just strap Android OS on a questionable hardware (look in your own house)?<p>Why run and manage your project on a baremetal server if you can just rent Amazon DynamoDB (see your company)?<p>Why spend months to find and hire one good engineer if you can just hire ten mediocre ones (see any other company)?<p>Why spend years educating to identify a tumor on a MRI scans if you can just feed it to a machine learning algorithm (see your hospital)?<p>What more could I name?<p>In my take, which you can say is pessimistic, we already passed the peak of civilization as we know it. If we continue business as usual, things will continue to detiorate, more software will fail, more planes will crash, more people will be unemployed, more wars would be started. Yes, decent engineers (or any other decent specialists) will be likely a winners in a short term, but how the future would unfold when there will be less and less of them is a question I leave for the reader.
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Animats3 个月前
Front-end development should have been automated by now. After all, it once was. Viamall. Dreamweaver. Mozilla Composer. Wix. Humans should not be writing HTML&#x2F;CSS.
thelittleone3 个月前
1. Work for megacorp 2. Megacorp CEOs gloat about forthcoming mass firings of engineers 3. Pay taxes as always 4. Taxes used to fund megacorp (stargate) 5. Megacorp fires me.<p>The bitter irony.
xinan3 个月前
What the AI bull Wall Street analysts didn’t realize is that AI will replace their job much sooner than replacing programmers.
up2isomorphism3 个月前
It will be extremely naive to believe that recent tech layoff is because of AI.<p>Obviously Wall Street and big tech like people to think this way.
nirui3 个月前
Maybe it&#x27;s just me boomer reading this, but I think all 3 points listed in the article are more of predictions from the author (with rationals from the author). However, AI today maybe different compare to AI in the future.<p>I&#x27;m a programmer, I love my skills, but I really hate to write code (and test etc etc), I don&#x27;t even want to do system design. If I can just say to a computer &quot;Hey, I got this 55TB change set and I want to synced it up with these listed nodes, data across all node must remain atomicity consistent before, during and after the sync. Now, you make it happen. Also, go pick up my dog from the vax&quot;, and then the computer just do that in the best way possible, I&#x27;ll love it.<p>Fundamentally, programmer are tool creators. If it is possible that a computer can create better tools all by itself, then it looked unwise to just react such technology with emotional rejection.<p>I mean, the worries is real, sure, but I wouldn&#x27;t just blank out reject the tech.
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osnium1233 个月前
If you are a junior engineer who just graduated, what would you do to ensure that you learn the needed skills and not be overly reliant on AI?
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karxxm3 个月前
Replacing juniors with AI is stupid because who will be the next senior? AI won&#x27;t learn anything while performing inference only.
angusb3 个月前
Did anyone else read this as &quot;Firing programmers for (AI will destroy everything)&quot; or have I been reading too much Yudkowsky
skirge3 个月前
No accountant was fired when Microsoft Clippy was introduced. AI is nice for prototyping and code completion but that&#x27;s all.
regnull3 个月前
This reminds me of the outsourcing panic, many years ago. Hiring cheaper talent overseas seemed like a no brainer, so everyone&#x27;s job was in danger. Of course, it turned out that it was not as simple, it came with its own costs, and somehow the whole thing just settled. I wonder if the same will happen here. In this line of work, it&#x27;s almost as when you know exactly what you want to build, you are 90% there. AI helps you with the rest.
mdrzn3 个月前
&quot;The New Generation of Drivers Will Be Useless Without a Horse&quot; is what I read when I see articles like this.
smeeger3 个月前
circular argument. literally “heres why you will regret it: 1) you will regret it” lol. nobody will regret firing their high-salary programmer within a year or two. its over. what happened to all the enthusiasm for the idea that technology doesnt steal jobs, it just creates new ones?!
atoav3 个月前
Meanwhile the newest model is like &quot;Oh just run this snippet&quot;<p>And the snipped will absolutely ruin your corp if you run it.
lenerdenator3 个月前
Keeping things around doesn&#x27;t drive shareholder value. Firing employees making six figures does.
tiku3 个月前
Doesn&#x27;t matter, a few minutes after firing the last programmer SkyNet wil become operational.
czhu123 个月前
I find it interesting that the same community who has questioned for a long time about why companies like Facebook need 60000 engineers, “20 good engineers is all you need”, is now rallying against any cuts at all.<p>AI makes engineers slightly more efficient, so there’s a slightly less of a need for as many. That’s assuming AI is the true cause of any of these layoffs at all
outime3 个月前
Has there been any company so far that has fired 100% of their programmers to replace them with AI?
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gantrol3 个月前
When a company announces layoffs: people suspect there&#x27;s something wrong with their growth, cash flow, etc.<p>When a company announces layoffs because AI is making things more efficient: people start arguing about whether AI can really replace humans.<p>If you were in company management and had to do layoffs, which would you choose?
thro13 个月前
What about.. empowering programmers with AI - can it create any useful things ?
reportgunner3 个月前
People really believe that companies are firing because AI will replace them ?
lawgimenez3 个月前
AI is cool, until they start going down the client’s absurd requirements.
sirsinsalot3 个月前
Reminds me of the outsourcing rush in the 2000s.<p>I made good money cleaning that up.
nu2ycombinator3 个月前
Dejavu, Complaints on using AI sounds very similar to early times of offshoring&#x2F;outsourcing. At the end of the day, corporates go for most profitable solution, so AI is going to replace some percentage of headcount.
zombiwoof3 个月前
Cursor being a 1 billion dollar company is just ridiculous
varsketiz3 个月前
Frankly, I agree with the points in the article, yet I&#x27;m triggered slightly by the screaming dramatic writing like &quot;destroy everything&quot;.
localghost30003 个月前
Reminder to everyone reading FUD like this that tech bro&#x27;s are trying _very_ hard to convince everyone that these technologies are Fundamentally Disruptive and The Most Important Advancement Since The Steam Engine. When in fact they are somewhat useful content generation machines who&#x27;s output needs to be carefully vetted by the very programmers this article claims will be out of a job.<p>To be clear: I am not saying this article is written in bad faith and I agree that if its assertions come to pass that what it predicts would happen. I am just urging everyone to stop letting the Sam Altmans of the world tell you how disruptive this tech is. Tech is out of ideas and desperate to keep the money machine printing.
tharmas3 个月前
Programmers are training their replacement.
sangnoir3 个月前
&gt; The ones who didn’t take FAANG jobs but instead went deep into systems programming, AI interpretability, or high-performance computing<p>I appreciate a good FAANG hatefest, but what the gosh-darn heck is this? Does the author seriously think <i>all</i> FAANG engineers only transform and sling gRPC all day? Or they they blindly stumbled into being hyperscalers?<p>The author should randomly pick a mailing list on any if those topics (systems programming, AI interpretability, HPC) and count the number of emails from FAANG domains
827a3 个月前
&gt; Imagine a company that fires its software engineers, replaces them with AI-generated code, and then sits back, expecting everything to just work. This is like firing your entire fire department because you installed more smoke detectors. It’s fine until the first real fire happens.<p>I feel like this analogy really doesn&#x27;t capture the situation, because it implies that it would take some event to make companies realize they made a mistake. The reality right now is: You&#x27;d notice it instantly. Product velocity would drop to zero. Who is prompting the AI?<p>The AI-is-replacing-programmers debate is honestly kinda tired, on both sides. Its just not happening. It <i>might</i> be happening in the same way that pirated movies &quot;steal&quot; income from hollywood: maybe companies are expanding more slowly, because we&#x27;re ramping up per-capita productivity because engineers are learning how to leverage it to enhance their own output (and its getting better and better). But, that&#x27;s how every major tool and abstraction works. If we still had to write in assembly there&#x27;d be 30x the number of engineers out there than there are.<p>There&#x27;s no mystical point where AI will get good enough to replace engineers, not because it won&#x27;t continue getting better, but because the economic pie is continually growing, and as the AI Nexus Himself, Marc Andreesen, has said several times: Humanity has an infinite demand for code. If you can make engineers 10x more efficient, what will happen in most companies is: we don&#x27;t want to cut engineering costs by N% and stagnate, we want 10x more code and growth. Maybe we hire fewer engineers going forward.<p>&gt; But with the AI craze, companies aren’t investing in junior developers. Why train people when you can have a model spit out boilerplate?<p>This is not happening. Its fun, pithy reasoning that Good and Righteous White Knight Software Engineers can prescribe onto the Evil and Bad HR and Business Leadership people, but its just not, in any meaningful or broad sense, a narrative that you hear while hiring.<p>The reason why juniors are struggling to find work right now is literally just because the industry is in a down cycle. During down cycles, companies are going to prioritize stability, and seniority is stability. That&#x27;s it.<p>When the market recovers, and as AI gets better and more prolific, I think there&#x27;s a reality where juniors are actually a great ROI for companies, thanks to AI. They&#x27;ve been using it their whole career. They&#x27;re cheaper. AI might be a productivity multiplier for all engineers; but it will <i>definitely</i> be a productivity <i>normalizer</i> for juniors; using it to check for mistakes, learn about libraries and frameworks faster, its such a great upleveling tool for juniors.
zombiwoof3 个月前
Tech debt is hard enough when written by the person sitting next to you or no longer at the company<p>It will be impossible to maintain when it’s churned out by endless AI<p>I can’t imagine being a manager tasked with “our banking system lost 30 million dollars can you find the bug” when the code was written by AI and some intern maintains it<p>I’ll be watching with popcorn
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giancarlostoro3 个月前
AI bros are like crypto bros. Really trying to hype it up beyond what its currently capable of and what it will be capable of in the near future.<p>I have all sorts of people telling me I need to learn AI or I will lose my job and get left in the dust. AI is still a tool, not a worker.
blibble3 个月前
ultimately Facebook and Google are completely unimportant, if they disappeared tomorrow the world would keep going<p>however, I for one can&#x27;t wait for unreliable garbage code in:<p><pre><code> - engine management systems - aircraft safety and navigation systems - trains and railway signalling systems - elevator control systems - operating systems - medical devices (pacemakers, drug dispensing devices, monitoring, radiography control, etc) - payment systems - stock exchanges </code></pre> maybe AI generated code is the Great Filter?
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ArthurStacks3 个月前
Total delusion from the author. If tech companies need a human dev, therell be plenty of them across the globe jumping at the chance to do it for peanuts. Youre soon to be extinct. Deal with it.
armchairhacker3 个月前
Counterpoint: lots of software is relatively very simple at its core, so perhaps we don&#x27;t need nearly as many employed developers as we have today. Alternatively, we have far more developers today, so perhaps companies are only firing to re-hire for lower salaries.<p>Regarding the first hypothesis: For example, one person can make a basic social media site in a weekend. It&#x27;ll be missing important things from big social medias: 1) features (some of them small but difficult, like live video), 2) scalability, 3) reliability and security, and 4) non-technical aspects (promotion, moderation, legal, etc.). But 1) is optional; 2) is reduced if you use a managed service like AWS and throw enough compute at it, then perhaps you only need a few sysadmins; 3) is reduced to essentials (e.g. backups) if you accept frequent outages and leaks (immoral but those things don&#x27;t seem to impact revenue much); and 4) is neither reducible nor optional but doesn&#x27;t require developers.<p>I remember when the big tech companies of today were (at least advertised as) run by only a few developers. They were much smaller, but still global and handling $millions in revenue. Then they hired more developers, presumably to add more features and improving existing ones, to make profit and avoid being out-competed. And I do believe those developers made features and improvements to generate more revenue than their salaries and keep the companies above competition. But at this point, would <i>more</i> developers generate even more features and improvements to offset their cost, and are they necessary to avoid competition? Moreover, if a company were to fire most of its developers, keeping just enough to maintain the existing systems, and direct resources elsewhere (e.g. marketing), would they make more profit and out-compete better?<p>Related, everyone knows there&#x27;s lots of products with needless complexity and &quot;bullshit jobs&quot;. Exactly <i>how</i> much of that complexity is needless and how many of those jobs are useless is up to debate, and it may be less than we think, but it may really not.<p>I&#x27;m confident the LLMs that exist today can&#x27;t replace developers, and I wouldn&#x27;t be surprised if they don&#x27;t &quot;augment&quot; developers so fewer developers + LLMs don&#x27;t maintain the same productivity. But perhaps many programmers are being fired because many programmers just aren&#x27;t necessary, and AI is just a placebo.<p>Regarding the second hypothesis: At the same time, there are many more developers today than there were 10-20 years ago. Which means that even if most programmers <i>are</i> necessary, companies may be firing them to re-hire later at lower salaries. Despite the long explanations above this may be the more likely outcome. Again, AI is just an excuse here, maybe not even an intentional one: companies fire developers because they <i>believe</i> AI can improve things, it doesn&#x27;t, but then they&#x27;re able to re-hire cheaper anyways.<p>(Granted, even if one or both the above hypotheses are true, I don&#x27;t think it&#x27;s hopeless for software developers. Specifically because, I believe many developers will have to find other work, but it will be interesting work; perhaps even involving programming, just not the kind you learned in college, and at minimum involving reasoning some of which you learn from development. The reason being that, while both are important to some extent, I believe &quot;smart work&quot; is generally far more important than &quot;hard work&quot;. Especially today, it seems most of society&#x27;s problems aren&#x27;t because we don&#x27;t have enough resources, but 1) because we don&#x27;t have the logistics to distribute them, and 2) because of problems that aren&#x27;t caused by lack of resources, but mental health (culture disagreements, employer&#x2F;employee disagreements, social media toxicity, loneliness). Especially 2). Similarly to how people moved from manual labor to technical work, I think people will move from technical work; but not back to manual labor, to something else, perhaps something social.)
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cranberryturkey3 个月前
you still need a programmer
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Terretta3 个月前
making tech != using tech
pinoy4203 个月前
What it’s not good at is anything within the last 2 years (due to training cutoff) all fail at latest remix, svelte and selenium syntax for example.<p>This is an eternity in FE dev terms
mattfrommars3 个月前
I read this on Reddit, but it capture in essence where we are headed in the future.<p>&quot;AI won&#x27;t replace you. Programmers using AI will.&quot;
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CrimsonRain3 个月前
Most programmers are not worth anything. Firing them for ai or no reason at all, will not change anything.<p>Whether ai can do stuff comparable to a competent senior sde, remains to be seen. But current AI definitely feels like a super assistant when I&#x27;m doing something.<p>Anyone who says chatgpt&#x2F;Claude&#x2F;copilot etc are bad, is suffering a skill issue. I&#x27;d go as far as to say they are really bad at working with junior engineers. Really bad as teachers too.