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WASM-Native Orchestration

102 点作者 fofoz3 个月前

13 条评论

diggan3 个月前
I feel like this landing page has so many buzzwords I don&#x27;t quite understand what the application&#x2F;project itself is, but I do understand it&#x27;s universal, runs everywhere and can run anything anywhere.<p>Could someone who knows what it is, give a simpler description? Is it a OS&#x2F;kernel? Runtime? Orchestrator? Self-hosted platform? Cloud platform?
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digdugdirk3 个月前
Question for everyone - I&#x27;ve long wondered if it would be possible to use WASM to create a p2p &quot;cloud&quot; to reduce reliance on datacenters?<p>My thought would be to encrypt all data packets prior to shuffling them into the network, and have some sort of incentive for people to keep their devices running on the network to enhance reliability - probably with a blockchain of sorts that serves as the main &quot;map&quot; of content in the network.<p>The dream goal would be to create a digital &quot;data cooperative&quot; that enables opt-in selling of your data&#x2F;usage habits, with a default setting of total privacy. Ideally this would be backed by the blockchain to close the loop on the incentive for usage.<p>Is there already something like this that I&#x27;m not aware of? Are there any areas of research I should look into?
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srameshc3 个月前
Too much marketing fluff on the website. How about showing simple example as how is it easier or useful to deploy some service to fly.io , AWS or GCP or maybe a Postgres deployment to Digital Ocean, Render or whatever. I want to use it but before I want to know how can I move my dependency from managed XYZ and easily run&#x2F;manage my own deployment of databas, services.
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brooksmtownsend3 个月前
Hey! I’ve been a maintainer of wasmCloud since 2019, I’m glad it sparked some interest and I appreciate the time spent going through the docs and QuickStart.<p>I’ll have to take another look and answer questions when I’m at the keyboard tomorrow! Appreciate all the feedback here, it’s really helpful to hear the fresh perspectives
zeroq3 个月前
(I see in the comments that more people have similar concerns)<p>ELI5 why is this not a solution looking for a problem? Not even this particular project, but WASM as a platform in general.<p>My point of view is that contenerization is the final step in reaching the &quot;serverless&quot; nirvana. Having a Docker (or similar) solves a platitude of problems, everyone develops in the same environment, deployment is fully reproducible and isolated, and so on.<p>I&#x27;m not a fan of pure &quot;serverless&quot; solutions as they hide too much moving parts inside a magic box.<p>Why is WASM seen as the next step?
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zackangelo3 个月前
I&#x27;ve been developing on top of wasm (wasmtime, specifically) for several years now.<p>I personally have my doubts about how broadly the components specification (which this cloud platform seems to depend on) will be adopted. Maybe I&#x27;m just not very smart, but it feels like one of the things I loved the most about WebAssembly, its simplicity, is being lost.<p>To get even basic things done with WASI, you now have to figure out which flavor to pull in (preview 1, preview 2, ... need any async [0], that&#x27;s coming preview 3?), learn a new IDL language [1] that defines the component&#x27;s spec, figure out its codegen toolchain [2]. It&#x27;s all very reminiscent of COM, CORBA and all the other times this has been tried in the past.<p>In any case, wasmtime is an amazing project and I&#x27;m grateful for it. They&#x27;ve already had to bifurcate the library to support WASI and components. I just hope non-WASI&#x2F;component code retains its status as a first class citizen in the project.<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;docs.google.com&#x2F;presentation&#x2F;d&#x2F;1MNVOZ8hdofO3tI0szg_i-Yoy0N2QPU2C--LzVuoGSlE&#x2F;edit?pli=1#slide=id.g1270ef7d5b6_0_662" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;docs.google.com&#x2F;presentation&#x2F;d&#x2F;1MNVOZ8hdofO3tI0szg_i...</a> [1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;WebAssembly&#x2F;component-model&#x2F;blob&#x2F;main&#x2F;design&#x2F;mvp&#x2F;WIT.md">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;WebAssembly&#x2F;component-model&#x2F;blob&#x2F;main&#x2F;des...</a> [2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;bytecodealliance&#x2F;wit-bindgen">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;bytecodealliance&#x2F;wit-bindgen</a>
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mentalgear3 个月前
Mh... I would be most interested in how this could be used for running a local-first software infrastructure cloud. Does anyone has maybe some infos in how it could be used in that way ?
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remram3 个月前
Being similar to Kubernetes is nice and makes sense if your audience is familiar with Kubernetes but I can&#x27;t grasp the advantage over Kubernetes. If you have to run agents on machines and pull artifacts from OCI registries, why not pull containers?<p>I can see clearly what you lose but not what you gain.<p>Their entire site seems to be &quot;you want to run WASM apps and we&#x27;re a great way to do that&quot;. But do I want to run WASM apps? Does anyone?
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NewMountain3 个月前
I&#x27;ve seen this project pop up two or three times in the last few days. I&#x27;m really excited about this and wasm in general and spent last night working through the docs page (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;wasmcloud.com&#x2F;docs&#x2F;intro&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;wasmcloud.com&#x2F;docs&#x2F;intro&#x2F;</a>).<p>I set up hello world in TS, Rust and Go and went through the happy path of saying hello world. That was a really nice and encouraging dopamine hit.<p>My biggest critique is once you need to go any further and turn hello world into even something pretty small but useful, the wheels fall off fast. Almost immediately after the &quot;ooooh cool&quot; of creating a hello world container with `wash dev` and seeing it on port 8000, which was my favorite part, things started to get weird.<p>After the tutorial introduces `wash dev`, a sort of create-react-app for wasm that bootstraps the project, generates a ton of boilerplate and generates a hot-reloading server, the tutorials immediately introduces `wash up` and `wash ui`. I figured out `wash ui` is an admin dashboard of sorts. Why can&#x27;t I just have admin dashboard as an option in my hosting command like `wash dev --dashboard=true`? It never really explains why I want `wash up` vs `wash dev`, where they differ, why they differ and why each exists. The `wash up` experience is much more clunky and, to be honest, I&#x27;d really just want to keep going with the same command that was working for me like `wash dev --dev` and then `wash dev --prod` with a heavy emphasis in the tutorial on the difference for each as it&#x27;s really not clear.<p>Confusion aside, the project seems very optimized for everything up to `wash dev` and then gets weird after that. I originally tried to create three components: hello-go, hello-rust and hello-ts. I used `wash new component hello-{lang} --template-name hello-world-{language}` and it created a sub-directory for each component. Each sub-directory looks like it&#x27;s own self-contained universe and it is not _at all_ clear how to get each component invoking other components (which is heavily emphasized as one of the killer apps throughout the introduction page). Furthermore, the `wash dev` command seems to only work within a single component. It is not clear how, if at all, I can run `wash dev` in the main directory and rebuild each component in its sub-directory (how I would like this to work). Also, it seems like each component&#x27;s `.wadl` defines the component behavior (the url via spec.components[http-component]) but I don&#x27;t want to think about each individual component, I really want to have one infra definition in root that defines the behavior of every component (particularly the spreadscaler and http address).<p>There are no examples for anything beyond super-trivial &#x2F;get of hello world. Could you show a post? Can I run multiple components on different routes? What about different components on different ports? If the intent is to run a &quot;super lambda&quot; that handles all traffic and routes internally, at least show that as an example.<p>Finally after a lot of digging, I found a link to a multi-component example (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;wasmCloud&#x2F;wasmCloud&#x2F;tree&#x2F;main&#x2F;examples&#x2F;rust&#x2F;composition">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;wasmCloud&#x2F;wasmCloud&#x2F;tree&#x2F;main&#x2F;examples&#x2F;ru...</a>) which introduces a half dozen new tools and commands not discussed anywhere in the tutorials and introduces a ton a clunky steps. In my head, I was thinking about all the steps in a Github Action runner I would need to make this seamless and just thought...this ain&#x27;t it.<p>Also, about half way through the docs make a throwaway reference to hosting with Wasmtime and JCo....wat? I thought the point of the wash tool was to take me from dev on localhost to hosting in production. Is it not? If not, make that _very clear_ in the docs.<p>To be clear: I _REALLY_ want WasmCloud to be successful. A lightning fast (virtually cold-start free) self-hostable, serverless function platform is my dream. I would love nothing more than a platform where I and&#x2F;or a small team could write functions in Go&#x2F;Rust&#x2F;JS&#x2F;TS&#x2F;Python, bundle and deploy them to a serverless platform we host. It&#x27;s even better that this platform out of the box provides support for metrics, monitoring, logging and tracing. The first article I read about you a few days ago I jumped out of my chair in joy that my dream was finally coming true. While I didn&#x27;t dig into it too much, it seems the platform also provides idioms for distributed systems (some mechanism to distribute load across self-organizing hosts on different machines). The reality is more rough and after using it, it&#x27;s not clear if I misunderstood what this project is and was confusing it for something else or if it just needs more polish and DX focus.<p>I am rooting for you so much and wanted to give this feedback as I can&#x27;t think of anything better than a self-hosted cold-start-less distributed serverless function platform but the rough edges would mean either I incur a ton of CI automation to smooth the rough edges, or I just keep watching this project before adopting.
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lenkite3 个月前
I don&#x27;t see the advantage of this over simply using kubernetes and the Kwasm Operator which adds WebAssembly support to Kubernetes nodes. No need for yet another flimsy later of abstraction.<p>Maybe after 5-10 years it will be mature enough to support many k8s features out of the box and can then replace k8s itself. But it is very far from that currently.
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firtoz3 个月前
What are some real life use cases for this, instead of let&#x27;s say edge functions or durable objects etc?
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thesurlydev3 个月前
Taking a quick look around on their website it seems you can have them host for you or self-host but absolutely requires k8s. If I&#x27;m wrong, point me to the doc that shows you how to self-host without k8s and I&#x27;ll officially be excited.
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euroderf3 个月前
Before they advertise this, they might want to fix their wasm shell:<p>&gt;&gt; wash build<p>requires go version 1.19 through 1.23, got go1.24
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