Whenever AP comes up I feel I see the same discussion over and over:<p>A bunch of people with AP state that AP can't be learned in adulthood, that it is a rare gift that can only be learned in childhood.<p>Another group of people who enjoy music deeply who did not learn AP as children counter: they have trained themselves to be able to recognise notes well enough that they can play or sing by ear, to a high degree of accuracy.<p>AP crowd counter: you've learned relative pitch. That's a party trick. The "gift" is being able to hear an obscure note and immediately recognise it out of context and to tell when it's even very slightly out by a tiny amount.<p>The other group counter that <i>that</i> sounds like a party trick, and anyway, doesn't that make getting old really horrible as hearing changes?<p>AP group insist that no, it's not a party trick and you can't come in. The difference is like being a native fluent speaker of a language instead of learning it as an adult: when you learn a language you translate it in your head, that's not true fluency, and people with AP have "fluency" in tones in a way that isn't like a "translation step" that learned behaviour is like.<p>Then the other group come back with "Wait, I know people who became fluent in another language in adulthood by complete immersion and who think and dream in their adopted language, so are you saying that's not real, or that a musical equivalent can't exist?"<p>AP crowd stand firm: you just don't understand, you can't learn it, please don't say you can, you're doing something different...<p>And this goes on, and on, and on...<p>And this thread is just more of that.<p>People with AP insist it can't be learned in adulthood, but I'm not sure what scientific evidence they have to support this, other than their own (seemingly unscientific) observations and interpretation. Studies that show RP improving towards AP are dismissed because the subjects have yet to reach the same skill level, but without evidence that it <i>can't</i>.<p>I think most people would argue relative pitch allows you to enjoy listening to and creating music at least as much as AP does, but does not have the downside of hearing degradation causing existential angst and disappointment to the same degree in later life.<p>As somebody who likes listening to music and occasionally tinkering at a keyboard or bass guitar, I'm a bit confused why this is such a contentious debate every time, and why in particular the AP crowd are insistent they're special even though it seems to be a curse to have AP rather than a blessing, as they themselves describe it.<p>I'm also not convinced that somebody starting out with RP can't develop "fluency" in terms of AP over time. Instead of everyone just arguing about their own interpretations and experiences, is there clear science one way or the other?