TE
科技回声
首页24小时热榜最新最佳问答展示工作
GitHubTwitter
首页

科技回声

基于 Next.js 构建的科技新闻平台,提供全球科技新闻和讨论内容。

GitHubTwitter

首页

首页最新最佳问答展示工作

资源链接

HackerNews API原版 HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 科技回声. 版权所有。

Cheap solar power is sending electrical grids into a death spiral

106 点作者 blackhawkC173 个月前

15 条评论

PlunderBunny3 个月前
&gt; &quot;lots of self-generated power will ultimately be wasted.&quot;<p>This is sunlight falling on a roof. If you convert it into electricity but then don&#x27;t use that electricity, is it really a waste? It&#x27;s like saying that the overflow from my water tank that collects rain water off the roof is &#x27;wasting&#x27; water.<p>It could be argued that it&#x27;s a waste in the sense that the generated electricity could have gone to someone else if there was a grid, but if the grid operator isn&#x27;t allowing excess to be put back into the grid (e.g. because there&#x27;s no demand at that time because it&#x27;s sunny and everyone is using solar), then the grid operator needs to solve that with some form of energy storage (e.g. batteries).
评论 #43042601 未加载
评论 #43043015 未加载
评论 #43042551 未加载
评论 #43042566 未加载
评论 #43042589 未加载
评论 #43045063 未加载
评论 #43042684 未加载
评论 #43042545 未加载
评论 #43042568 未加载
评论 #43044837 未加载
评论 #43067806 未加载
评论 #43042713 未加载
评论 #43045503 未加载
评论 #43043065 未加载
评论 #43075553 未加载
评论 #43051810 未加载
评论 #43054140 未加载
r00fus3 个月前
Hopefully what&#x27;s dying is the concept of privately owned utilities. Everyone knows that, unless they&#x27;re properly regulated, these eventually turn into a rent-seeking behemoths that corrupt the government (or vice-versa).<p>However, what will likely happen is that these private utilities will see the writing on the wall and instead do what PG&amp;E is doing in CA and just start charging &quot;transmission fees&quot; to keep their rates even higher despite massive daytime solar abundance.<p>Everywhere there is state&#x2F;municipal owned utilities it&#x27;s almost always considerable cheaper than private.
评论 #43042958 未加载
评论 #43042974 未加载
tim3333 个月前
The two girds they talk about were not doing that great before solar either.<p>Eskom South Africa:<p>&gt;CEO and the cyanide-laced coffee...dramatic example of how criminality has seeped into South Africa’s state...organised theft, mainly of copper, on an industrial scale <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ft.com&#x2F;content&#x2F;5fe8291d-9895-4272-9e0a-eefa279116f4" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ft.com&#x2F;content&#x2F;5fe8291d-9895-4272-9e0a-eefa27911...</a><p>Pakistan:<p>&gt;Pakistan&#x27;s energy shortfall refuses to abate amid scorching heat, load-shedding...Pakistan&#x27;s urban centres are now suffering up to six hours of load shedding...Calling it a &quot;crisis of leadership and coordination&quot;, a former PEPCO head criticised... <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;energy.economictimes.indiatimes.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;oil-and-gas&#x2F;pakistans-energy-shortfall-refuses-to-abate-amid-scorching-heat-load-shedding&#x2F;84136196" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;energy.economictimes.indiatimes.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;oil-and-gas...</a><p>Not sure you can blame solar for that. The rest of the world seems to manage solar without death spirals.
beyondcompute3 个月前
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;2025.02.13-153306&#x2F;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.economist.com&#x2F;finance-and-economics&#x2F;2025&#x2F;02&#x2F;13&#x2F;cheap-solar-power-is-sending-electrical-grids-into-a-death-spiral" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;2025.02.13-153306&#x2F;https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.economist.c...</a>
xrd3 个月前
Lots of threads lately about power utilities making bad decisions and barriers to starting public utilities, indirectly which can lead to fires and home loss.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=42971311">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=42971311</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=42975492">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=42975492</a><p>If the privately owned utilities are left to their own devices when solar comes in and eats their lunch, expect more &quot;climate change driven disasters,&quot; right?
评论 #43042670 未加载
kylehotchkiss3 个月前
This reminds me that utilities can limit the size of your rooftop solar system, which locks you into whatever your usage you had at install time. Because of that it&#x27;s difficult for me to actually achieve net zero electric usage and it&#x27;s more cost effective for me to remain on a gas furnace instead of upgrading to a heat pump. This is such a shame. I wish I could just get 2 more KWh.
评论 #43042774 未加载
评论 #43043979 未加载
评论 #43043586 未加载
johnea3 个月前
The existing comments here already capture most of my thoughts on the subject: users reap benefit + shareholder loose revenue = disaster!<p>Disaster for who? Not the users that&#x27;s for sure.<p>Another aspect of this in the US electric utility context is that if more power is genrated locally, and exxcess is distributed as locally as possible, then long distance distribution is reduced. THere aren&#x27;t as many needs, and certainly this reduces planned expansion of long distance distribution.<p>However, this is also a &quot;disaster&quot; as defined above, since construction of those long distance transmission facilities are also payed for with public bonds and therefore direct taxpayer funding.<p>The economist never ceases to amaze in this twisted logic...
advael3 个月前
Weird how when the rapacious whims of capitalists destroy things people value the economists posit that &quot;those things weren&#x27;t viable in the market, we have to be realistic&quot; but when business models that capital finds valuable are under threat from technological commodification the line is &quot;disaster, death spiral&quot;<p>I have to say, my days of not taking economics seriously as a science are certainly coming to a middle
bentt3 个月前
I built a garage with a flat roof to accommodate a solar system. I assumed it would make sense. However between the city rules on setback and the extra cost of a grid-connected system, it didn&#x27;t make sense. Since then I&#x27;ve been strongly considering an off-grid setup. I&#x27;d like to see those get more uptake because there are so many fewer dependencies and regulations.
hcknwscommenter3 个月前
One Jack Rickard, RIP, who was quite an opinionated jerk imho, coined the concept of &quot;selfish solar.&quot; The idea was that solar was on its way to becoming so cheap that one should just install enough panels and batteries such that you basically never use the grid, it&#x27;s just a backup for uncommon events. Basically grid use drops to that 1 or 10% of the time the sun doesn&#x27;t shine for days. I think we are there on the panel side, and will be there soon on the battery side. Selfish solar could make sense but it would change the economics of solar and electric grids substantially. If everyone went selfish solar, grid electricity and infrastructure would become prohibitively expensive. We are decades away from that or at least one decade (IMHO), but we need thoughtful regulation on this point. Will we get it? I suppose time will tell.
评论 #43052495 未加载
thedigitalone3 个月前
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;MJyhB" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;MJyhB</a>
4d4m3 个月前
I mean, what power grid provider makes it easy to work with them to sell solar back to the grid? Bogus fees, negative rate metering, and lobbying against the consumer drives consumers to ever-cheaper solar and storage options.<p>This is self inflicted behavior from monopolies that ignore user research.
评论 #43042663 未加载
评论 #43043261 未加载
评论 #43042379 未加载
评论 #43042382 未加载
henearkr3 个月前
Just make roof solar panels with tiltable shades that limit the incoming sunlight for this kind of situations. This is when there is no battery storage involved.<p>If the solar-roofed house can involve home batteries, problem solved.
评论 #43042708 未加载
suraci3 个月前
The Economist, a journal that speaks for the British millionaires
justlikereddit3 个月前
Anyone who paid some attention saw this coming.<p>You can&#x27;t run a grid with maxed out cheap renewables. It&#x27;s like having a society where the police and prisons staff closes shop and goes home when the sun sets and still expect law and order to persist.
评论 #43042926 未加载