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Garzik: An Andre To Remember

233 点作者 asto将近 13 年前

13 条评论

hobin将近 13 年前
I was going to respond to a few of the comments here, but then I realized I was going to say pretty much the same to all of them, so here goes:<p>I've got clinical depression. What this means is that there is something fundamentally wrong in my brain that causes me to be depressed. There is no direct environmental cause that makes me depressed. Now, here's what many people get wrong about severe depression:<p><i>Severe depression does NOT mean that exercise, a healthy diet and getting a social life won't help at all.</i><p>Rather, depression completely drains your motivation to do any of those things. Which in turn make you more depressed. Which makes you even less likely to do any of them. And so on and so forth. It's 'positive' feedback, but it <i>starts</i> with a neurological problem. <i>This</i> is why all the 'cheer up'-sort of advice doesn't help people who're depressed, and why it tends to only make them more miserable.<p>Of course, this is only my experience. I'm quite sure there are plenty of people who <i>are</i> depressed for reasons found in their environment, and then get stuck in the same loop. But it would be ridiculous to presume that I'm unique in this regard.
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paulrademacher将近 13 年前
And as usual with this issue, this post shows little understanding of depression.<p>&#62; <i>There is no computing project that is worth your life. Turn off the computer. Seek help. Get outside, enjoy the green grass, the birds in the trees. Talk to people you know. Talk to strangers! Drive to Wisconsin, and find out whatever it is they do there. Build a treehouse. Park on a parkway and drive on a driveway. Make a macaroni necklace. Visit a dairy. Climb a rock. Seek life.</i><p>Every point except for Seek Help is just "cheer up, pal" bunk.
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Udo将近 13 年前
It's hard to disagree with the general sentiment, but trading a life for a computing project is not really what happened here. Software development does not cause mental illness. In some cases, stressful jobs contribute to a person's mental degradation - but it's not like there was ever an option of trading in this guys passion for technology in exchange for a healthy brain.
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noonespecial将近 13 年前
<i>Get outside, enjoy the green grass, the birds in the trees. Talk to people you know. Talk to strangers! Drive to Wisconsin, and find out whatever it is they do there. Build a treehouse. Park on a parkway and drive on a driveway. Make a macaroni necklace. Visit a dairy. Climb a rock. Seek life.</i><p>This is advice for someone who had a bad day. This is not advice for someone who is depressed! These suggestions assume that the person has hope. Or even considers the possibility of ever having hope again. There's just no way I can tell someone who hasn't been on this train what it's like to ride it. It's like being dead in a way. Would you tell a dead man to get out and enjoy the grass? It's a bit like that.
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zackmorris将近 13 年前
This story hits close to home for me. As one of the countless others like me on Hacker News who started out their educations and careers with so much promise, all I feel anymore is this tremendous sense of failure and missed opportunity.<p>These days I think of programming the way I think of working out: intense bursts of focus on creativity for maybe 2-4 hours if I'm lucky, and then hours to days of melancholy because the tools and methodologies I'm using are all garbage.<p>Examples of mainstream trash: ios, objective-c, flash, php, c++, 802.11, usb, xml, html5, mpeg, mp3, dram caches, opengl, just on and on and on. Literally every tool I use on a daily basis, every file format, every communication protocol, everything, all fatally flawed in some way. My life has been an almost complete waste.<p>I don't know much about IDE/ATA but it must be quite a garbage dump to traverse. Turning that into something clean like a socket/file reference is remarkable. Just think of all the things that don't work on hard drives: how they fail to write the last bit of data in a power failure or maintain directory consistency, how they were so far behind on caching and hybrid flash/platter drives, just on and on, a tower of babel of remarkably cheap but inadequate hardware. Dealing with that, and the layers of politics that perpetuate such monstrosities would be enough to drive a person mad.<p>Thank god I'm not depressed though. I was severely out of it from 2000-2010 for a lot of obvious reasons but I finally let everything go and have never been happier. I. Am. Not. Depressed. It's glorious to say, I feel it all the way to my core. Life can turn around, and one day you'll wake up and realize that you don't give a crap about solving the world's problems anymore, because it's all too far gone. It's not your fault. Just find your niche and reach some level of sustainability, and save the world later.
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andrewvc将近 13 年前
That's a sad story, and one that's too common in our industry. Mental health issues in software are sadly under-discussed.<p>If you feel like making a difference I'd recommend donating to the Brain &#38; Behavior Research Foundation. They fund studies into mental health disorders, an area of science that is still only vaguely understood.<p><a href="http://bbrfoundation.org/" rel="nofollow">http://bbrfoundation.org/</a>
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bschlinker将近 13 年前
I had the opportunity to meet Andre last summer while interning at Cisco. I had no idea who he was at first, until I looked him up on LinkedIn and "googled" his name.<p>Towards the end of my internship, I was there until 10 PM some days working on code. Andre would see my cube lights on and come over to talk to me. Considering how I was just working all alone when there that late, I really appreciated the brief talks, as they provided me when an opportunity to think about something other then the problems within my code for a few moments. He would often share a few technical tips or an interesting story with me during our conversations.<p>Although I didn't work with him much, it's disappointing to hear of his death. It seems like most of the comments in here (on HN) are regarding mental illness -- something which I never observed during the brief period of time that I knew him. Regardless of his reason for taking his life, I'm glad I had the opportunity to meet him and thank him for those brief conversations.
catastrophe将近 13 年前
I haven't been formally diagnosed with bipolar, but I sure as heck have many of the symptoms, including feeling elation and depression at the same time. I also have chronic depression.<p>What does that mean? Nothing, except I completely see myself in Andre's description. What am I doing about it? Exercising, reading affirmations, trying to watch the diet (tough when broke) etc, etc.<p>But I read Andre's story and it makes me very sad.
steve8918将近 13 年前
I had a good friend from high school who was brilliant. We were academic rivals, but he definitely outworked everyone in the entire school. He got into Duke and graduated with a double major in engineering and economics. He got his law degree, and then his Master's in Law, and passed the bar exam in New York and I think CA.<p>He was working in patent law in NYC for a few years, and then abruptly quit and moved back home. He said he had some ideas on businesses, and it seemed rational. He started venturing into religion, not for the sake of religion, but to explore the concept of morality. He didn't have a Jewish background, but he became very interested in Judaism because of it's views on morality, and I even bought a book on the Talmud at his insistence, so that we could talk about it. We would have pretty elaborate discussions on morality, etc, over email. He was engaged to get married to a lovely girl, and things looked fine.<p>Then, just before they got married, they abruptly cancelled their wedding. I emailed him, and I asked him "How are things going? Enquiring minds want to know!"<p>His only response was "Who are these enquiring minds that you are asking on behalf of?" We exchanged a few emails after that, he accused me of being immoral, and then I never heard from him again.<p>I contacted his fiancee, and apparently he was exhibiting signs of paranoid schizophrenia. He had become increasingly paranoid over the last few years, and become more and more disassociated with reality.<p>After that, he basically disappeared. He was always a bit paranoid about leaving his mark on the Internet, and had multiple fake email addresses, so trying to track him down was basically impossible.<p>Last year, after many years of no contact, I got a phone call from him, presumably from a number that wasn't his, because he had recently realized that in one of his discussions on his business over 10 years ago, he may have gotten me to agree to terms that would have been personally unfavorable, and he wanted to release me from all obligations from this agreement. I didn't know what he was talking about, but we never did anything more than talk about things, and his "businesses" never amounted to anything except talking. But I agreed to be absolved from those obligations. Then asked how things were with him, and he was extremely vagued, and then hung up on me.<p>It's very sad, because he was very brilliant, but it's clear he is mentally ill. And there's nothing I can do about it. He has no siblings, and both his parents are dead, so there's no one I can even contact.<p>It sounds similar to the case of Garzik in that I don't know if the concept of "take care of yourself" is relevant. He probably didn't realize he was mentally ill, if what the original emailer said was true about him being paranoid. It probably would have been something the family would need to pursue, but getting someone evaluated, etc, is hard, and as the emailer said, it would only increase the negative feedback loop for Garzik, since he would suspect everyone was out to get him, so it's a really tough problem to solve.
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Chmouel将近 13 年前
I don't know Andre but I know Jeff and he's the most nicest kernel developer out there there is not many that are as much great listener as him
Monotoko将近 13 年前
RIP Andre. This makes me think about the people I interact with every day, I have friends who won't accept they even have a problem and believe everything is fine. They seem unble to see it, how do you convince someone like that to go to a therapist?
olliesaunders将近 13 年前
<i>Perhaps it is the nature of intelligence itself, or just the nature of computer science, but our profession seems to have a higher than average rate of bipolar disorder and other mental illnesses.</i><p>Citation needed.
combataircraft将近 13 年前
On the other words: All this software development shits are NOT for EARTH. They are for the price competition of capitalist system and can only impact prices in capitalist cities, nothing more than this. Don't put so much meaning and don't think you're becoming a better person when you commit to a repository.
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