TE
科技回声
首页24小时热榜最新最佳问答展示工作
GitHubTwitter
首页

科技回声

基于 Next.js 构建的科技新闻平台,提供全球科技新闻和讨论内容。

GitHubTwitter

首页

首页最新最佳问答展示工作

资源链接

HackerNews API原版 HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 科技回声. 版权所有。

Can I ethically use LLMs?

60 点作者 ulrischa3 个月前

17 条评论

wilg3 个月前
FWIW here&#x27;s how I resolve the article&#x27;s questions currently:<p>1. Energy usage: Using electricity is not unethical. For many reasons we need to transition Earth to use clean energy. This is not a reason to not use new technology, nor is deep learning particularly wasteful like blockchains are.<p>2. Training data: Seems reasonable to see AI training as fair use. If you disagree, that&#x27;s fine too, but the legal specifics of the origin of dataset isn&#x27;t really fundamental to AI training so we can likely just train only on properly sourced data in some way. Many AI use cases don&#x27;t have this problem anyway, like self-driving.<p>3. &quot;Replacing people&quot;: I don&#x27;t think you have a right to continue doing the same work your whole life if someone invents a more efficient way of doing it. We shouldn&#x27;t build an economy around a busywork jobs guarantee. Plus, it&#x27;s plausible this concern is a moot point, as Noah Smith argues here <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.noahpinion.blog&#x2F;p&#x2F;plentiful-high-paying-jobs-in-the" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.noahpinion.blog&#x2F;p&#x2F;plentiful-high-paying-jobs-in-...</a> But I&#x27;m happy to do UBI or whatever, though UBI may not be as effective as one would hope.<p>4. &quot;Incorrect information and bias&quot;. Doesn&#x27;t strike me as a fundamental problem (models will get much better at this), nor an ethical question. Just know the information may be incorrect. Most of it isn&#x27;t. And LLMs and AI have many use cases beyond retrieving reference information, even if most people just see Google search AI blowing it constantly.<p>5. Concentrating power: Seems like close-to-state-of-the-art LLMs will be commodified, etc. If it really becomes important I don&#x27;t see why you couldn&#x27;t just rustle up some donations for a truly open model or whatever.
评论 #43107603 未加载
评论 #43107588 未加载
评论 #43107693 未加载
评论 #43107353 未加载
评论 #43107756 未加载
评论 #43107389 未加载
评论 #43107398 未加载
评论 #43112326 未加载
评论 #43107291 未加载
评论 #43108148 未加载
Filligree3 个月前
The power calculation is way off.<p>Sure, a local model may use a maximum of 65 watts during inference.<p>However, an H100 runs on 350 watts. Even accounting for the fact that a larger model will need more than one slice, it’s so much faster that this almost balances out.<p>That’s not the largest difference, though. The H100 can run multiple user queries in parallel, and because LLM inference is limited by memory bandwidth, using large batch sizes this way will dramatically improve efficiency. In short, it takes less power to run it in the datacenter.
评论 #43107094 未加载
评论 #43107255 未加载
msp263 个月前
&gt; An article from Tom&#x27;s Guide last year showed that &quot;a single query on ChatGPT-4 can use up to 3 bottles of water<p>I don&#x27;t understand how a statement this fucking stupid ever got traction
评论 #43107377 未加载
alchemyzach3 个月前
LLM training has nothing in common with search engine web crawlers, from an ethical standpoint.<p>Web crawlers index your content and direct people to your website, giving the writer some credit (arguably a lot of credit).<p>LLMs gorge themselves on everything youve ever written in order to improve their ability to regurgitate&#x2F;mimmick intelligence, while rarely ever giving credit to anyone at all.<p>I think the ability to block ai from including your work in its training data is important. Pointless? Maybe. But it should be an option for those who feel strongly enough about it.
评论 #43112303 未加载
评论 #43107789 未加载
kridsdale13 个月前
Anyone concerned about LLM energy and water use should just stop eating meat. Now they’re massively a net positive contributor.
评论 #43107428 未加载
emtel3 个月前
&gt; Another technology that uses a lot of energy is blockchains. I think using public blockchains is almost universally unethical since there are other, better, less harmful options. Part of the harm from blockchains is an absurd amount of energy usage.<p>I&#x27;m not filled with confidence in the author after reading this. The absolutely overwhelming majority of blockchain transactions today occur on non-PoW chains which do not consume large amounts of electricity.
评论 #43107460 未加载
edanm3 个月前
&gt; When we put people out of work, we—both society and technologists—have an ethical responsibility to ensure there&#x27;s a plan to mitigate the harm from that.<p>This is my major disagreement with the argument. I think she&#x27;s giving too much moral weight on what the technologists creating the technology, or even using the technology, have to do here.<p>I don&#x27;t think it was incumbent on the scientists first discovering electricity, to figure out how to mitigate the vast societal upheaval of all the jobs that would be lost because of it. I don&#x27;t think I&#x27;ve ever stopped eating things grown in a field because the technology for farming has made 99% of farmers lose their job, with one person working the field with specialized machines doing the job of dozens. Nor have I expected the people creating new farming technologies to worry about the ethical implications of making farmers&#x27; jobs easier.<p>I&#x27;m pretty sure, in fact, that most of the world just says &quot;thank you&quot; that more food can be grown and harvested, and far more cheaply at that.<p>I do think <i>society</i> has to worry about this issue, both morally and practically, but not specifically the people creating the technology. In fact, I think it&#x27;s a bit of hubris we in the technology community have, that we think because we created a technology, we are best suited to understand the implications of it or how to deal with it on a socio-economic-political level, when there are entire fields of study about those topics which most technologists are not acquainted with.
blackeyeblitzar3 个月前
In case this helps with ethical concerns, one way to use LLMs <i>more</i> ethically is to use an open source LLM. For example, AI2 has a model called OLMo (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;allenai.org&#x2F;blog&#x2F;olmo2" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;allenai.org&#x2F;blog&#x2F;olmo2</a>) that is open everything. Their stance is that truly open source models are released with weights, training data, code, and evaluation in full, and thus can be fully inspected and reproduced.<p>They recently also released an iOS app with a variant of this model, called OLMoE (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;allenai.org&#x2F;blog&#x2F;olmoe-app" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;allenai.org&#x2F;blog&#x2F;olmoe-app</a>), that uses a small model that can do on-device inference, for private and secure use. Also the app itself is open source.
bowsamic3 个月前
I refuse to use it because it offloads human cognition into an external prosthetic. Computers and writing are already playing with fire. I’m being unironic because I’m already preempting the “writing is obviously a pure good” comments
评论 #43111269 未加载
t0bia_s3 个月前
Back then when film was invented, people believed that photography stole a part of their soul every time they was captured and replicated. Since then, artist stop with attempt to paint realistic reproductions on canvas and all kind of *ism was a reaction (impressionism, expressionism...).<p>We live in similar times. AI is new tool that opens new possibilities and force us about rethinking about certain things, such as education, authenticity of consumed media, meaning of art, etc.
9999000009993 个月前
Absolutely not.<p>But you can&#x27;t wear shoes, or buy clothing either. Everything I wear was literally made by people being exploited.<p>Everything I eat, was picked or produced by people being exploited .<p>To function in any way under capitalism is to do so unethically. Because capitalism demands it.<p>Llms are effectively a giant hodgepodge of stolen data, commodified. There&#x27;s no way around it .<p>However, if LLMS help doctors cure diseases, people learn math, and a variety of other good things, it becomes unethical to not use them .<p>It&#x27;s a paradox. And a contradiction, all in one. I don&#x27;t think software engineers who outright refuse to use LLMS will have jobs much longer. Even if it&#x27;s just printing out some boilerplate code, it&#x27;s just where the industry&#x27;s heading.
评论 #43108002 未加载
daxfohl3 个月前
While each is concerning independently, I see the feedback cycle of 2,3,5 as being the biggest concern. 2: As systems get more powerful, they&#x27;ll take training data off everything available. On the computer? They&#x27;ll be capturing screenshots. Walking down the street? They&#x27;ll be capturing video, GPS, etc. 3: It won&#x27;t take them long to figure out what you do, and do it for cheaper. Everything you think you&#x27;re good at will be useless. 5: We might try to pass regulations to prevent that from happening, but those who control these AI systems will have too much power, and their only incentive will be to use it to create a surveillance state, feeding back into 2,3.<p>Less concerned about 1 (long-term, I think a clean power source will be found) and 4 (they&#x27;ll get better, unless the feedback cycle above creates a motive for intentional disinformation. And hopefully we&#x27;ll get better at knowing when to trust them in either case).
jongjong3 个月前
Not all blockchains use a lot of energy. It is unethical to suggest so without differentiating Proof of Work from Proof of Stake.
评论 #43111878 未加载
grigio3 个月前
I think people should stop to use banks and electronic payments, they use too much energy, and also gaming on GPU, too much energy.. and also to use USD it funds too many wars.
hrkucuk3 个月前
Did this submission just got &quot;hidden&quot; from the main HN page or is it just me? If it is hidden, may I ask what was the reason? I am just curious.
评论 #43112404 未加载
darioush3 个月前
Not sure what the stigma around blockchain energy usage is?<p>Other than bitcoin which remains a large proof of work network, most of the large public blockchains now use a proof of stake mechanism or other forms of consensus that can and do operate on modest hardware.<p>Yes, running them does require some hundreds of machines, but not more than your typical silicon valley darling like Uber or Airbnb would use to run their infrastructure.
评论 #43111870 未加载
jmathai3 个月前
This is a dilemma I&#x27;m deferring making a decision about on my most recent product (named Preppy [1]). I created an app which simplifies meal planning by letting you add ingredients for any online recipe to your grocery store&#x27;s shopping cart for pickup or delivery.<p>It uses LLMs for many things including parsing ingredients from the site.<p>The ethical dilemma is that the recipe website owners have spent time creating and publishing these recipes. They make their money by people visiting their site and clicking on ads. My app reduces a user&#x27;s dependency on their recipe site once they&#x27;ve added a recipe to Preppy.<p>I&#x27;m genuinely interested in ways my app can benefit users and recipe website owners. I don&#x27;t know what that solution is yet but would love to figure this out. Generally speaking, I don&#x27;t think these recipe website owners are going to come out ahead with the availability of LLMs.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;getpreppy.app" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;getpreppy.app</a>
评论 #43107132 未加载
评论 #43107177 未加载
评论 #43107059 未加载
评论 #43107156 未加载
评论 #43107632 未加载