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AI fakers exposed in tech dev recruitment: postmortem

59 点作者 iamflimflam12 个月前

15 条评论

Etheryte2 个月前
In a way, it's incredibly hilarious that due to AI, modern companies have to essentially resort to what used to be a common way among 4channers to ensure someone is a real person — ask them to put a shoe on their head.
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bilekas2 个月前
This is interesting, the article doesn&#x27;t say exactly the reasons behind it but I would suspect the latest wave of North Korean plants are doing the rounds ?<p>Also it&#x27;s crazy how it&#x27;s not that easy to find a good job any more and yet there are these (quite obvious fakes, maybe in hindsight) who are almost getting offers over badly deepfaked video calls. Saying you&#x27;re from Poland, saying you got your degree in Poland but not being able to speak Polish ?
oefrha2 个月前
&gt; Return of in-person final rounds? This looks an obvious consequence of these incidents.<p>Well, even before AI we had qualified people being paid to go to interviews for scammers. Or qualified candidates outsourcing their jobs after being hired. An unfortunate downside of remote work really — you can’t be sure of who’s doing the work if they don’t have to come in (and I say this as someone who’s just about to start working on a fully remote, international team). AI has made fraud massively cheaper though.
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gedy2 个月前
This is why I&#x27;m not particularly worried about working remote&#x2F;WFH from the US. I&#x27;ve heard the scare tactic that &quot;your manager will move your job overseas for cheaper!&quot; - but inevitably most companies have no idea how to do that successfully without running into issues like the article. It&#x27;s just easier for them to deal with and verify US (or Canadian) employees.<p>I guess at some point AI deepfakes will get so good that they look, sound, and act like a local dev while zooming and working with them throughout the day - but then I suppose what&#x27;s the problem exactly?, ha.
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wiether2 个月前
A solution can be the same one used for proctored exams to obtain some certifications?<p>You have to come to a certified center next to your home, where they&#x27;ll check your credentials and put you in front of a certified computer with cameras recording everything.<p>Since they&#x27;re local, they know the customs, they know which credentials to check, and they can&#x27;t place an AI in front of a computer.
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alp1n3_eth2 个月前
I don&#x27;t know how it works overseas, but it sounds like this is a plus for US companies hiring US employees. According to the laws the company is required to fully ID you before hiring, which means either:<p>1) Hopping on a video call and placing the passport or (driver&#x27;s license + birth cert) in front of the camera. 2) Going to an in-person business that the company is friendly with to have their HR verify you.<p>Both of these usually involve sending a photo of the documents in addition to the in-person&#x2F;video verification.<p>#1 is very popular, and in a legal grey area ever since COVID. More standardized&#x2F;strict businesses (banking, university) will require #2. Either one of those options kills this outright (ignoring the other billion red flags they should have seen pre-interview).<p>Along with a background check, which even the crappy ones will verify using things like W2s, I don&#x27;t really see this as a concern, unless you&#x27;ve got sketchy hiring practices and hire in countries you aren&#x27;t familiar with.
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kennykartman2 个月前
Something similar happened to our company as well. A Polish candidate contacted us with a great Resumee and did the interview with no camera (&quot;didn&#x27;t work&quot; or something on these lines) - I&#x27;m not a camera person so I didn&#x27;t care much.<p>The candidate was very aligned to our needs and enthusiastic to work with us, so after a first call to discuss about company, motivations and so on, we scheduled another to go deeper in tech details.<p>I interviewed the cadidate twice, except - it wasn&#x27;t the same person. When I grew suspicious and started being inquisitive, pointing out incoherences between their answers in the two interviews, the candidate said this was not a good time and basically left the call.
Peroni2 个月前
&gt;<i>the candidate did not speak any Polish, but was based there and graduated from Warsaw University of Technology. He spoke in broken English, and with a very strong accent that sounded Asian, but these weren’t warning big red flags, and the candidate sounded motivated.</i><p>This is ridiculous. According to their resume they lived, studied, and worked in Poland for over 10 years and don&#x27;t speak Polish? This isn&#x27;t considered a red flag? This was a screening call and the head of operations categorically failed.<p>&gt;<i>Communication was a bit choppy, and the candidate did not speak Serbian, despite graduating from the University of Kragujevac, in Serbia. Once again, they sounded motivated, so proceeded to the next round.</i><p>So no actual lessons learned from the last time.
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charlieyu12 个月前
I remember someone in a HK company sent like $20M to scammers because he was instructed in what he thinks is a board of seniors but actually AI by scammers. It was like last year?
iamleppert2 个月前
If you can&#x27;t manage to find something as generic as a backend engineer or web developer in your own network, you have no business running a tech company. I feel sorry for whatever investors hand someone money and their first thought is &quot;Let&#x27;s hire some foreign developers&quot; -- probably paying them on the cheap. The original sin (and scam) is these founders taking investment capital and unqualified to run a company.
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tennisflyi2 个月前
Blow my mind those resume succeed but my bare formatting resume is chaff. Also, IMO, this just shows how inane interviewing is
trod12342 个月前
This has been going on for awhile now, and is partially why job hunting has gotten so bad.<p>Similar to RNA interference in Cellular networks, the same thing is occurring on both parties of communications that typically happen in job hiring scenarios.<p>What are the incentives and who would benefit?<p>Certainly a nation-state following a regime-change playbook similar to the CIA would benefit from sabotage, espionage, and all that. Demoralize, Destabilize, Bring to Crisis, and Renormalize are the various stages.<p>Aside from that, Recruiters and professional headhunters have profit incentive to engage in these things since their services become more valuable as the noise floor increases.<p>This is a simple indirect imposition of additional cost on all companies seeking hiring candidates. By polluting the current candidate pool to the point of no return, the only alternative are recruiters.<p>The cost to do this used to be extremely high which is why it wasn&#x27;t done in the past, with AI&#x2F;LLMs the cost is negligible in comparison.<p>People today didn&#x27;t want to listen about the knock-on effects of AI being generally available. Integration is happening rapidly, and the bridges have now been burnt.<p>Problems will only build and get worse until the instability that caused these dynamics in the first place is removed, the same general rule as any chaotic or stochastic system (such as weather&#x2F;storms).
neilv2 个月前
Have a second thought before following all these suggestions.<p>&gt; <i>Ask the candidate to do things that AI filters cannot handle – yet, such as:</i><p>&gt; * <i>A face turning side to side</i><p>With all AI ethical practices being set by unscrupulous people right now, and a gold rush of everyone else ... is an &quot;employer&quot; asking me to do this actually just trying to get a model to impersonate me?<p>Or it it an actual company, but they want training data for their AI snake oil?<p>Or is it a legitimate company who are being honest, but the video service they&#x27;re using is going to abuse that video data (whether or not the ToU permits that, because legal isn&#x27;t stopping anyone in this gold rush)?<p>&gt; * <i>standing up and walking backward from the camera, showing more body detail</i><p>&gt; <i>In the circumstances, It should be justifiable to run through some or all of these tests, as well as asking for all filters to be turned off.</i><p>If we stop and ask ourselves, &quot;What would an HR expert say?&quot;...<p>Well, the poor professional decorum, and setting a suspicious tone and imbalanced dynamic, the HR person might not complain about, but...<p>What I think think they might complain about first is us setting up the company for discrimination lawsuits and public outrage:<p>* What if your request comes off as sexually objectifying and&#x2F;or discriminating on their basis of their physique? (Basically, &quot;Now how about you walk back and give us a little twirl, cupcake?&quot; or &quot;Bro, do you even lift?&quot;)<p>* What if the person has mobility problems that aren&#x27;t relevant to the software job?<p>* What if the person is trans and using filters to help them pass, due to well-known discrimination and abuse?<p>* What if the person routinely uses filters for a scar or a skin condition they&#x27;re self-conscious about, and maybe has trauma around that? Or because they have a really unflattering camera on their personal laptop? Are they going to feel humiliated or harassed?<p>I&#x27;m wondering whether some of the suggestions for countermeasures might be considered OK because the scenarios they&#x27;d just talked about are of candidates in countries that can be paid a lot less for the same work. And therefore maybe thinking of them as <i>the other</i> or <i>lesser</i>, and not due the same respect we&#x27;d hopefully extend to people in our own country or another affluent country?
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gruez2 个月前
What&#x27;s the point of AI faking? Steal IP? Gain access to internal systems?
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sceptic1232 个月前
Does this article not sound overly paranoid or perhaps a little made up to anyone else?