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A note on the USB-to-PS/2 mouse adapter that came with Microsoft mouse devices

384 点作者 luu大约 1 个月前

31 条评论

alexey-salmin大约 1 个月前
Oh wow, what a blast from the past. Around the year 2000 or 2001 I got an optical mouse as a present (either birthday or new year, can&#x27;t remember). I really wanted it for a long time because playing StarCraft with a mechanical one was rather painful.<p>Needless to say it was a USB mouse and I only had ps&#x2F;2. I purchased an adapter but it never worked despite spending a lot of time trying and testing it with different PCs and mice.<p>Then I took the adapter to an electronics repair shop. They opened it up and explained to me it was fake: it just connected the wires without any circuitry for the real USB support. They had no idea why anyone would manufacturer such a thing.<p>Well, now I know why. I spent quite a long time thinking I was sold a counterfeit adapter.
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InsomniacL大约 1 个月前
Once had a very awkward conversation with a sales person in PC World.<p>I had been given a old retired server from work to take home and learn with... only problem was it had no USB.<p>I was asking for a PS2 keyboard, he said they don&#x27;t sell them but I could use any USB keyboard, I told him I don&#x27;t have any USB ports and I needed a PS2 keyboard.<p>After awhile of him going back and forth with his manager, only to return to tell me i can use USB, It turned out he thought I was trying to buy a Play Station 2 keyboard and he&#x27;d never heard of PS&#x2F;2!
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userbinator大约 1 个月前
Some more details (and interesting historical perspective) can be found here: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;superuser.com&#x2F;questions&#x2F;704920&#x2F;how-to-determine-if-usb-mouse-supports-ps-2" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;superuser.com&#x2F;questions&#x2F;704920&#x2F;how-to-determine-if-u...</a><p>Apparently around 2014 the vast majority of mouses and keyboards were dual-protocol, but in 2019 the first reports of them being USB-only started appearing. I suspect a lot of the cheapest mouse SoCs are still dual-protocol as they worked when first designed, and they just kept producing them without any changes.<p>Pinout and explanation of how they detect protocol here: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;retrocomputing.stackexchange.com&#x2F;questions&#x2F;28288&#x2F;how-did-early-green-ps-2-to-usb-mouse-adapters-work" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;retrocomputing.stackexchange.com&#x2F;questions&#x2F;28288&#x2F;how...</a>
squigg大约 1 个月前
I have an old Roland S760 sampler from the early 90s. One of the innovations Roland made in this (lower cost) space was to add the ability to hook up a monitor and a mouse, to make chopping samples and programming patches much easier than peering at a tiny screen like on an Akai S1000 of the time (which I also have), or even worse on the S760&#x27;s tiny two-line display<p>The mouse connector is MSX, which are very difficult to find these days, so mine came with a DIY MSX-&gt;PS2 connector. Sadly the PS2 mouse it came with was on it&#x27;s last legs, so I wanted to replace it with something more modern. All I could find at the time were MS mice that came with a USB-PS2 connector. When I plugged it in, it barely worked and I could never understand why.<p>I did finally manage to track down a NOS PS2 mouse and it worked perfectly again. Until this post, I never understood just WHY it didn&#x27;t work, so thank you!<p>The S760 is a fantastic sampler. It&#x27;s kinda like a JD990 but as a sampler and without the full synth engine complexity. Made famous by Daft Punk and a lot of others as the S760 digital multimode filter became one of their signature sounds.
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dekuNukem大约 1 个月前
An active converter is needed to use modern USB on retro computers. I made one a few years ago for many different computers.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;dekuNukem&#x2F;USB4VC" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;dekuNukem&#x2F;USB4VC</a><p>There&#x27;s also a more recent project called HIDman, but only for PCs.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;rasteri&#x2F;HIDman" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;rasteri&#x2F;HIDman</a>
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lathiat大约 1 个月前
Just reading this title and with only microsoft.com as the URL, I knew with 99% certainty this was going to be oldnewthing (Raymond Chen)
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jwr大约 1 个月前
I have a keyboard from my first 386&#x2F;33 computer. It can be connected to my current Mac through a sequence of adapters: DIN5 -&gt; PS&#x2F;2 -&gt; USB-A -&gt; USB-C.<p>I am looking forward to extending my sequence of adapters in the future.
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ndiddy大约 1 个月前
Keyboards from the late 90s and early 2000s often did something similar. The controller supported both PS&#x2F;2 and USB and the keyboard would come with a PS&#x2F;2 plug and a passive adapter. That&#x27;s why if you&#x27;re trying to use a PS&#x2F;2 keyboard designed prior to the introduction of USB (like a Model M) on a modern computer, you need to make sure to get an active PS&#x2F;2 to USB adapter that actually translates the protocol.
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leohonexus大约 1 个月前
This is similar to how a (cheap) DisplayPort-to-HDMI adapter worked, the adapter itself is completely passive.<p>Many devices with DisplayPort output support multimode, which allows the device to switch from outputting DP packets to outputting TMDS-based HDMI or DVI signals. You&#x27;ll sometimes see a ++DP logo on these ports.<p>This is also why you don&#x27;t see a cheap HDMI(source)-to-DisplayPort(sink) adapter, the smarts just aren&#x27;t built into the source device.
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usr1106大约 1 个月前
Sligthly (un)related: The other day the builtin keyboard on my rather new Thinkpad X1C 12th stopped working. I connected a USB keyboard and tried to figure out whether there was an error in Linux kernel ring buffer or anything else explaining the problem.<p>To my surprise the internal keyboard is not even USB, but i8042. Not a hardware guy, but I had silently assumed everything is USB these days. I guess i8042 is the PS&#x2F;2 protocol TFA is talking about?<p>(No error found, but after a reboot it has been working again.)
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dehrmann大约 1 个月前
I suspected something list this, so these always scared me.<p>Actually, magic always scares me. I was putting together an LTE internet gateway from a Mikrotik device flashed with OpenWRT and was confused about how the SIM card slot on the main board interacts with a mini PCIe LTE modem. I <i>looked at the mini PCIe pinouts</i> and discovered the modem is actually USB (mini PCIe has pins for this) and mini PCIe has pins that are wired to the SIM card. I later ran into an issue where the card wouldn&#x27;t work, but if I tape over the USB3 pins, it would drop to USB2 (still enough bandwidth for LTE) and work.
usr1106大约 1 个月前
Didn&#x27;t those adapters exist in both directions? Green in one and violet in the other? I have the feeling if I started to dig in my treasures I should still find some. One way to avoid e-waste is not to throw anything away...
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rasz大约 1 个月前
The best part about Microsoft mouse USB=PS2 adapters is Microsoft made several mice models with incompatible wired differently adapters that look the same from the outside :)
wildzzz大约 1 个月前
I always assumed these were active devices doing some quick translation between USB and PS&#x2F;2 but after dealing with USB controllers, this would have been exceptionally difficult (at the time) to fit inside of a dongle barely larger than the connectors.
Shorel大约 1 个月前
I am using an USB-to-PS&#x2F;2 adapter right now.<p>My mouse is a Logitech MX-500, which is the last model I have with PS&#x2F;2 support, the next model MX-510 was USB only.<p>The motherboard is an MSI B550 TOMAHAWK, the computer was assembled just a few months ago.<p>The mouse still works and it has proven to be more reliable than modern ones.
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jackvalentine大约 1 个月前
This has answered a 25 year old question in my mind.
1970-01-01大约 1 个月前
The very old Microsoft IntelliMouse are some of the best designed mice in the world. They always just work as designed. (Until you found someone with a glass desk, then it was time for a mousepad.)<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;IntelliMouse" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;IntelliMouse</a>
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aussieguy1234大约 1 个月前
So that&#x27;s why the adaptor didn&#x27;t work with other mice
xtiansimon大约 1 个月前
Interesting. I have a USB IBM TrackPoint Keyboard that I use with a USB to PS&#x2F;2 mouse and keyboard adapter. I bought the cheapest adapter I could find and I was surprised it worked. Now I know why—the keyboard must have a chip that switches between the two protocols.
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tracker1大约 1 个月前
The motherboard on my old Intel 4790K would only go into the BIOS with a keypress from a PS&#x2F;2 keyboard, not from a USB one... That computer is still in service, a friend uses it for general browsing, etc. When I gave it to him, I gave him the 3 purple keyboard adapters I had and an explanation to keep track of them.<p>I couldn&#x27;t get one anywhere locally, even at Fry&#x27;s Electronics at the time before they closed (man that place was a ghost town towards the end). I don&#x27;t know if the keyboard adapters were the same as the mouse adapters, but I do remember that some would work with some devices and not others.
buildsjets大约 1 个月前
A note about even older AT keyboard connections they should not be hot plugged! Some older motherboards had a fuse soldered in that would blow if the keyboard was hot plugged. Fixed several in the days.
aurumque大约 1 个月前
My whole life has been a lie... And yes I do have a drawer with several of these alongside VGA adapters and anything else I might need during the end times.
tristor大约 1 个月前
Yes, this is a common issue for folks who are into vintage mechanical keyboards. Be aware that you almost always need an &#x2F;active&#x2F; USB to PS&#x2F;2 converter. For the Model M, many keyboard generations had detachable cables that used the SDL standard and there are several options for in-cable conversions based on Blue Cube, TeensyUSB, or similar setups to allow you have a &quot;SDL to USB&quot; cable.
asteroidburger大约 1 个月前
There&#x27;s a purple adapter too that came with some keyboards. It looked like it came out of the same molds, so I suspect it&#x27;s a similar situation.
she46BiOmUerPVj大约 1 个月前
This is really good timing because I just naively bought one of those little green adapters for test for three apparently fruitless causes -- a mini disc recorder, a vt520 and a vt525. I now have some hidmans (hidmen?) on the way with some hope that I&#x2F;we someone can figure out whats missing to get it working with the VT52{0,5}.
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VogonPoetry大约 1 个月前
The Atmel AT90USB162 chip multiplexed the USB D+&#x2F;- pins with an SDATA and SCK PS&#x2F;2 port. It is possible to build a &quot;serial&quot; to PS&#x2F;2 or USB bridge device with very few components. The part seems to still be available from Microchip.
reader9274大约 1 个月前
Wish the article further explained how the mouse did this internally.
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486sx33大约 1 个月前
Funny enough PS&#x2F;2 has found its niche and is included on most “gaming” motherboards because - less latency than USB! ps&#x2F;2 has higher system priority
zamalek大约 1 个月前
I wonder if you could bit-bang PS2 from the host side - though this is probably one of those things where we need to &quot;consider if we should.&quot;
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extraduder_ire大约 1 个月前
I wonder if the pin connection is standard across manufacturers that do this. I assume anyone coming after microsoft&#x27;s mouse release copied them.
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whiterook6大约 1 个月前
I don&#x27;t understand why so many modern motherboards continue to include ps&#x2F;2 connections on their rear i&#x2F;o panels.
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